Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (Full Version)

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GoddessManko -> Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 11:12:57 AM)

I have been mulling this over in my mind. I have always held to a belief (feel free to disagree) that most people are variations of D and s. Some nurture one side, neglect the other and this is how this brings about those of us who move away from what I'd define as "the center".
I believe however that there are EXTREMELY fundamental differences between lifestyle D/s/switch vs those who are only that way in the bedroom and nowhere else.
I was having a conversation with someone I really like I met from this site and he asked me the difference between a submissive and slave. To be honest, I said "I don't know, I suppose it depends on how you define either term". He said he believed a submissive may be someone who is a sub mainly in activity related things whereas a slave is someone who hands over the keys to their life to someone else. The slave is a submissive in every facet of their life.
It honestly made a lot of things click for me as far as why a lot of things some people say on here didn't really make sense to me. I had always seen my "subs" as "subs" but with his definition they would be more "slaves" and it validates also the kink without the "power exchange" that I'm used to for other D's. I'd like to know other people's thoughts on this as far as their experience within their relationship and how it is defined for them if possible.



DarkSteven -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 11:25:51 AM)

I disagree. To me, sub and slave are both defined within the context of relationships, not just kinkplay. I have used the term "bedroom sub" to define bedroom-only relationships.

There are also relationships that are defined by what occurs outside the bedroom only. Taken in Hand, Head of Household, Domestic Discipline.




DesFIP -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 12:34:36 PM)

And I think there are a lot more people into kinky fuckery than into authority transfer.

Because how many people fantasize about being told not to eat potatoes but to get a salad instead as opposed of those fantasizing about hot sex.



PeonForHer -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 3:05:10 PM)

quote:

Because how many people fantasize about being told not to eat potatoes but to get a salad instead as opposed of those fantasizing about hot sex.


Er ... I have a much cherished fantasy about Ms Venus telling me to carry her suitcases as she gets off the train. It's a boner-one, too. Does that count?



AAkasha -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 4:08:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And I think there are a lot more people into kinky fuckery than into authority transfer.

Because how many people fantasize about being told not to eat potatoes but to get a salad instead as opposed of those fantasizing about hot sex.



There are a lot more male subs (bottoms?) into sensual-based power exchange rather than "female led relationships" (their ideal for who has the power in the relationship and makes the decisions could be on a scale - not necessarily man-in-charge, but perhaps both as equals or slightly in favor of the woman having more control).

What I think is really unfortunate and a huge trend is when a man comes around and talks about his fantasies, femdoms often jump on him and direct him to start considering what he can "do" for a woman, and how he has to offer skills, service, etc. What you end up with are a lot of bottom-boys who want kinky sensual power exchange thinking if they "barter" service they get the kink. That makes a bunch of men turn into guys who think that they will get their spankings and strpaon sex as long as they are good service subs, and they have NO interest in service submission.

This is especially unfair to subs who really do get joy from service and don't view it as currency to get kink in return.

Directing a misguided sub to figure out how he can be a service submissive is just turning him into a guy who thinks if he offers to clean or be of use (when he's not even into that kind of power exchange) he will get his kinky needs met. Not true at all.

Akasha



GoddessManko -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 8:57:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree. To me, sub and slave are both defined within the context of relationships, not just kinkplay. I have used the term "bedroom sub" to define bedroom-only relationships.

There are also relationships that are defined by what occurs outside the bedroom only. Taken in Hand, Head of Household, Domestic Discipline.




Thanks for that DarkSteven! I feel like you're someone I can actually learn a lot from as far as defining MY relationship in the right context going into the future and about the lifestyle overall.

To be honest Akasha, I don't understand a lot of what you said. Didn't you introduce quite a few vanilla men into the lifestyle? So then they really had no predispositions necessarily until they actually engaged with you, correct?
I do not let subs define the relationship in the context of lifestyle. If other D's do so they can feel free. My subs are very aware that I make MY rules, they follow, period. Any D I have ever engaged with offline is the same way.
If a sub is misguided into believing he will have sensual play then the sub is being dishonest with intentions and unless the D is psychic I hardly can fault them. It's not like every D outlines their intentions and activities with an s day to day, week by week unless they're a prodomme usually.



AAkasha -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 10:44:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree. To me, sub and slave are both defined within the context of relationships, not just kinkplay. I have used the term "bedroom sub" to define bedroom-only relationships.

There are also relationships that are defined by what occurs outside the bedroom only. Taken in Hand, Head of Household, Domestic Discipline.




Thanks for that DarkSteven! I feel like you're someone I can actually learn a lot from as far as defining MY relationship in the right context going into the future and about the lifestyle overall.

To be honest Akasha, I don't understand a lot of what you said. Didn't you introduce quite a few vanilla men into the lifestyle? So then they really had no predispositions necessarily until they actually engaged with you, correct?
I do not let subs define the relationship in the context of lifestyle. If other D's do so they can feel free. My subs are very aware that I make MY rules, they follow, period. Any D I have ever engaged with offline is the same way.
If a sub is misguided into believing he will have sensual play then the sub is being dishonest with intentions and unless the D is psychic I hardly can fault them. It's not like every D outlines their intentions and activities with an s day to day, week by week unless they're a prodomme usually.



You are right, I introduced a lot of men into my style of BDSM.

I'll give a very exaggerated example of the kind of thing I am talking about:

1) Kink-curious guy thinks he is into S&M. Not very educated, lots onto Collarchat and says, "I am interested in strap on training. How can I meet a Mistress into this?"

2) Responses include things like, "I read your profile and it's all about your kink. What do you have to offer?" and "A femdom wants to know how you can make her life easier" and "Why don't you include some of your skills on your profile. Handyman? Gardening?" and the ONLY legit one IMHO is "Get to know a woman first then her femdom side...treat her like you do a vanilla girl and connect first, kink later."

3) Guy reads the responses and goes to change his profile and adds that he can fix cars, do housework (although he has NEVER done even his own housework - but hey, if it will get a dildo up his ass, sure!) and "handyman." He then starts reaching out to women saying, "I just want to 'serve'" and waits for a lady to take him up on it.

4) Guy meets a woman who expects that he's interested in service, when really he just wants to experiment with strapon play. He would have been better off just searching for a kinky gal who is very experimental in bed and prefers to do her own laundry anyway.

Akasha



SnarkDom -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/29/2014 11:16:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree. To me, sub and slave are both defined within the context of relationships, not just kinkplay. I have used the term "bedroom sub" to define bedroom-only relationships.

There are also relationships that are defined by what occurs outside the bedroom only. Taken in Hand, Head of Household, Domestic Discipline.




Agreed, Steven. I always love your insight. :)



DesFIP -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/30/2014 9:37:57 AM)

Valid point AAkasha, except how many women are there desperate for any guy to bend over so they can use a strap on dildo on him?

When we suggest he thinks of something besides what he wants done to him, then the concrete things to suggest are what he can offer in return. Because it's hard to explain to him how to be someone who other people want to have kinky sex with.



GoddessManko -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (6/30/2014 9:49:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

You are right, I introduced a lot of men into my style of BDSM.

I'll give a very exaggerated example of the kind of thing I am talking about:

1) Kink-curious guy thinks he is into S&M. Not very educated, lots onto Collarchat and says, "I am interested in strap on training. How can I meet a Mistress into this?"

2) Responses include things like, "I read your profile and it's all about your kink. What do you have to offer?" and "A femdom wants to know how you can make her life easier" and "Why don't you include some of your skills on your profile. Handyman? Gardening?" and the ONLY legit one IMHO is "Get to know a woman first then her femdom side...treat her like you do a vanilla girl and connect first, kink later."

3) Guy reads the responses and goes to change his profile and adds that he can fix cars, do housework (although he has NEVER done even his own housework - but hey, if it will get a dildo up his ass, sure!) and "handyman." He then starts reaching out to women saying, "I just want to 'serve'" and waits for a lady to take him up on it.

4) Guy meets a woman who expects that he's interested in service, when really he just wants to experiment with strapon play. He would have been better off just searching for a kinky gal who is very experimental in bed and prefers to do her own laundry anyway.

Akasha


Thanks for your patience and candor in explaining that to me Akasha, I'm inclined to agree with you completely. To be honest, 90% of subs I meet don't get past the first meeting with me. Why? Because they expect me to be in D mode just to have a meet and greet and that's usually telling. They don't hide their disappointment, some get actually angry and feel like their time was "wasted". They don't say it but you can just just tell.
I feel like someone who is truly interested in being everything their D wants and being open to whatever her desires may be are though rare, very set apart from those wishing to have kink fulfilled.
Someone can give advice all day but a tiger cannot change its stripes and for a man, it's VERY difficult to conceal underlying desires for very long. So inevitably I feel like a bit of time might be wasted but I'm doubtful it would take months, weeks or even days to figure out where a sub's intentions may be.
I might be wrong but then I'm extremely selective, I've met maybe a handful of people from CS out of all the emails I do receive. I weed them out pretty quickly because you can state what you want all day but you know a very large percentage will try their luck despite that. "Wanna embarrass em on teamviwer?" says a "paypig".
"Do you like sounding ma'am?" sent 5 times by the same guy and such, LOL. Thankfully they're not huge on camouflage or tact. The ones who want their "itch scratched" so to speak.



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 9:49:53 AM)

To be honest, I reject this whole polarisation between D/s and 'kinky sex' that is common here on collarspace. I think that 'kinky sex' as it is labelled by some contributors on here is actually a disparaging term for the intense eroticism of s&m play or sex, and I think that 99% of D/s relationships also include s&m.

I believe that both s&m and D/s (commonly referred to as BDSM) are mainly done for sexual, physical or romantic pleasure and I believe that D/s relationships completely absent of s&m are extremely uncommon, outside of religious or traditional communities (whose D/s would appear very different from the D/s of BDSM practitioners anyway).

As regards subs and slaves, my definition is that a submissive is someone who enjoys aspects of BDSM but with limitations on what they are prepared to do for a Dom, whereas a slave is one who has agreed to do mostly everything the Dom says.

I also disagree with your analysis that everyone is a variation of D or s. I believe that most people are both D and s, in different situations, but that they may choose to adopt a consistent role in relationships or the bedroom that is overtly D, s. Other people prefer a changing or more neutral role in relationships. For many years I was purely a masochist and Ds was not a part of my relationships or roles, so I consider it a little bit offensive when Doms or subs assume their perceptions colour the personalities of everyone else. Ds is just another kink, and one not shared by everyone.

I consider myself a slave in my relationships since I am happy to forgo safewords, etc. However, I am very much a leader in my professional life and I am somewhat bossy with friends, particularly female friends. To say that a slave is submissive in every aspect of their life is simply incorrect imo, since I do not know anyone who is like that, even lifestyle slaves of many years.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 10:49:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree. To me, sub and slave are both defined within the context of relationships, not just kinkplay. I have used the term "bedroom sub" to define bedroom-only relationships.

There are also relationships that are defined by what occurs outside the bedroom only. Taken in Hand, Head of Household, Domestic Discipline.


Couldn't agree more, D.S....but then, you already knew that.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 11:19:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Valid point AAkasha, except how many women are there desperate for any guy to bend over so they can use a strap on dildo on him?

When we suggest he thinks of something besides what he wants done to him, then the concrete things to suggest are what he can offer in return. Because it's hard to explain to him how to be someone who other people want to have kinky sex with.
What you say is true in its' own way but at the risk is creating a stir, I find Aakasha's point valid: when a male sub comes on here and asks " how can I find a femdom interested in making me service her orally"?, he may be a wanker...but he may also be a legitimate submissive male whose sexuality is aroused by performing this service. When so many femdoms answer him with "what do you have to offer? your profile is all about your kink and nothing about the dom's needs and how you can fulfill those", the guy must feel like shit.
I browse profiles. Many femsubs are quite specific about what they like on the kink side of D/s along with stating what they must have from their dominant on the non-sexual, non-kink side of things. Yet, when one of these femsubs come to the board and asks why she can't attract a dominant, rarely do I hear the Doms say " your profile is all about you...what you want and need and nothing about what you bring other than kink".




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 11:54:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
...and I think that 99% of D/s relationships also include s&m.

Then count me and everyone that I know that "plays" or is into some form of kinky sex, in that 1%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I believe that both s&m and D/s (commonly referred to as BDSM) are mainly done for sexual, physical or romantic pleasure and I believe that D/s relationships completely absent of s&m are extremely uncommon...

^^^ This ^^^ I think, is where you are fundamentally wrong in your assumptions.
You can easily have BDSM aspects without ANY D/s and vice-versa.
I know an awful lot of people that are in a D/s dynamic that do nothing within what would be considered BDSM.

As DS and Des mentioned, there are different categories of kinky fuckery as well as authority/control transfer.
The two are separate issues with some overlap if desired.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
As regards subs and slaves, my definition is that a submissive is someone who enjoys aspects of BDSM but with limitations on what they are prepared to do for a Dom, whereas a slave is one who has agreed to do mostly everything the Dom says.

I disagree with this premise also.
From an activity PoV, there is no difference between what a slave or sub does - the ultimate goal is identical.
IMHO, the only difference between the two is when the consent is given.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I also disagree with your analysis that everyone is a variation of D or s. I believe that most people are both D and s, in different situations, but that they may choose to adopt a consistent role in relationships or the bedroom that is overtly D, s.

Many have different roles in their workplace or at home.
However, unless the work involves some sort of BDSM, I discount the workplace as far as BDSM or D/s is concerned.
IOW, you can be a submissive boss or a dominant bottom-of-the-rung worker, that doesn't mean you're a switch or someone that is both D and s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
...To say that a slave is submissive in every aspect of their life is simply incorrect imo, since I do not know anyone who is like that, even lifestyle slaves of many years.

I happen to know several lifestyle slaves and to be honest, they are exactly "like that", as in, a slave to the core in every aspect of their lives.
Although I do agree that quite a few are not like that in all aspects - especially when it comes to the workplace.



FieryOpal -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 12:07:43 PM)

~ FR ~
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

...and I think that 99% of D/s relationships also include s&m.

Then count me and everyone that I know that "plays" or is into some form of kinky sex, in that 1%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

I believe that both s&m and D/s (commonly referred to as BDSM) are mainly done for sexual, physical or romantic pleasure and I believe that D/s relationships completely absent of s&m are extremely uncommon...

^^^ This ^^^ I think, is where you are fundamentally wrong in your assumptions.
You can easily have BDSM aspects without ANY D/s and vice-versa.
I know an awful lot of people that are in a D/s dynamic that do nothing within what would be considered BDSM.

As DS and Des mentioned, there are different categories of kinky fuckery as well as authority/control transfer.
The two are separate issues with some overlap if desired.
<snip>

I couldn't agree with you more, freedomdwarf.
S&M does not enter into my D/s relationship dynamics.
(Although I do have a pal who claims that my use of nipple clamps constitutes S&M. I should point out that this is not a requirement of mine, it is up to my sub's discretion.
My intention does not stem from a sado-masochistic motivation. I discovered a while back with my then husband that this could get him into subspace.)

Btw, CreativeDominant, you make valid points, which I cannot properly comment upon due to time constraints.



thompsonx -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 1:36:11 PM)


ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
It's not like every D outlines their intentions and activities with an s day to day, week by week unless they're a prodomme usually.


I think if we look closely at the profiles here we will find a lot of people who are beginners. So unless both parties outline what they expect how do they even start. I am sure you would agree that no two doms or subs are alike. That being the case a laundry list from each would be most appropriate don't you think?
Yet when someone not a dom/domme post such a list they are universially castigated while a dom/domme says I want you to do as I say. No list, no understanding of what they want. Just a "my way or the highway" mentality.
It seems to require the non dom/domme to be a mind reader.



thompsonx -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 1:46:50 PM)


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Valid point AAkasha, except how many women are there desperate for any guy to bend over so they can use a strap on dildo on him?

A quick look at craigs list might indicate that there are many...very many.

When we suggest he thinks of something besides what he wants done to him,

You are suggesting something irrational. You don't do this why would anyone else?

then the concrete things to suggest are what he can offer in return.

I have that same conversation at the butt huts I frequent.

Because it's hard to explain to him how to be someone who other people want to have kinky sex with.

I think it helps if both have similar kinky interests.

What you say is true in its' own way but at the risk is creating a stir, I find Aakasha's point valid: when a male sub comes on here and asks " how can I find a femdom interested in making me service her orally"?, he may be a wanker...but he may also be a legitimate submissive male whose sexuality is aroused by performing this service. When so many femdoms answer him with "what do you have to offer? your profile is all about your kink and nothing about the dom's needs and how you can fulfill those", the guy must feel like shit.

Gurlz generally like to have their pink parts licked and kissed. This guy offers to do this and gets ask how much he is willing to pay to do what she craves. Yeah I can see were he might feel like shit. Offering to do something someone likes only to be told there is a charge for pleasing this person[8|]



I browse profiles. Many femsubs are quite specific about what they like on the kink side of D/s along with stating what they must have from their dominant on the non-sexual, non-kink side of things. Yet, when one of these femsubs come to the board and asks why she can't attract a dominant, rarely do I hear the Doms say " your profile is all about you...what you want and need and nothing about what you bring other than kink".

And the dom/dommes profle is all about what they want.[8|]





CreativeDominant -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 3:12:53 PM)

Did you even look at the o.p., the post I was answering or anything other than my answer? Or are you just feeling scrappy?

Hate to tell you this but I believe Icll take Fiery Opalcs comments re: my post with a little more seriousness than yours.



thompsonx -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 7:01:19 PM)


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Did you even look at the o.p.,

Why yes I did as a matter of fact I even responded to her.

the post I was answering or anything other than my answer?

I was simply responding to your answer.


Or are you just feeling scrappy?

Why does my voicing my opinion constitute scrappy?

Hate to tell you this but I believe Icll take Fiery Opalcs comments re: my post with a little more seriousness than yours.


Why would anyone take anything I post seriously???
Do you have a clue as to the iq required to do so? Sure it is possible yes but hardly probable.



FieryOpal -> RE: Lifestyle BDSM vs Sexual/Kink oriented BDSM (7/10/2014 11:41:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Valid point AAkasha, except how many women are there desperate for any guy to bend over so they can use a strap on dildo on him?

When we suggest he thinks of something besides what he wants done to him, then the concrete things to suggest are what he can offer in return. Because it's hard to explain to him how to be someone who other people want to have kinky sex with.

What you say is true in its' own way but at the risk is creating a stir, I find Aakasha's point valid: when a male sub comes on here and asks " how can I find a femdom interested in making me service her orally"?, he may be a wanker...but he may also be a legitimate submissive male whose sexuality is aroused by performing this service. When so many femdoms answer him with "what do you have to offer? your profile is all about your kink and nothing about the dom's needs and how you can fulfill those", the guy must feel like shit.
I browse profiles. Many femsubs are quite specific about what they like on the kink side of D/s along with stating what they must have from their dominant on the non-sexual, non-kink side of things. Yet, when one of these femsubs come to the board and asks why she can't attract a dominant, rarely do I hear the Doms say " your profile is all about you...what you want and need and nothing about what you bring other than kink".


Btw, there aren't many not-for-hire Dommes who are into strap-on play--some are, but many aren't. I personally can take it or leave it. If there are "Dommes" advertising on Craigslist, it's because sex workers know there is money to be had in charging for this kind of sexual service.

What I wanted to address here is not so much the validity or sincerity of a male sub's intentions, but of the messed-up approach some of these guys take in trying to attract a Domme.

Nothing wrong with disclosing your kinks & fetishes--on the Interests List, as well as sprinkling in some of your vanilla interests. (BRIEF reference to anything important not contained on the list)
Because we women know that the men who come onto this site are horny. And you men assume that the women you find here and on other kink sites are also horny.
We know this already. Maybe that's all that some men need or want to know for the most part: Are we horny-compatible?

Women know we won't have much difficulty extracting that information, and hopefully it will be reliable and not just what the man thinks a woman wants to hear.
I think the fundamental difference in approaches is that F/m and M/f dynamics are NOT the same. There are many similarities, but whether we want to admit it or not, there is a gender divide which often has to get bridged.
I don't have the definitive answers to this. What I do know is that I need to gather a helluva lot more non-BDSM info about a man before I can even begin to consider him as partnership/relationship material. If I were only interested in finding a suitable play partner, it probably wouldn't matter as much.



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