RE: Lois Lerner (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/15/2014 8:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

The amount you don't know about computers is staggering. Email is not usually stored on servers. The only usual time an email is stored on a server is when it is sent through a web mail service. If you have a mail client like Exchange on your computer, which Lerner likely did, then your computer sends and receives email directly. So yes, if her hard drive crashed and she had not been archiving her email those emai
ls are likely lost unless you can get the recipient's copies


It's just the opposite. My Exchange Outlook email client stores emails on servers. There are no emails solely stored on my workstation. The proof is apparent when my laptop is off and I access my Exchange email via a web client, which is run on a web browser from any location and machine. This happens because the web client reads my email, sent and received, from the servers. I cannot believe the IRS uses more primitive email architecture than this common one, which has been in use for years now.

This means the emails are available unless someone took them from the backed up servers. I suggest the smoking gun emails are already available and have been reviewed. I also suggest the GOP is waiting to drop a hammer on all these Obama issues, the timing is wrong, it is time to take the Senate and Obama is a distraction right now. The hammer drops on him (and maybe even Hillary) after the mid-terms. Well after the mid-terms, closer to the Presidential election.

That's a very insecure setup. As can be seen from you accessing your mail over the web. That wouldn't be how the IRS would do things.




It's just the opposite. The Web client and exchange server use encryption to protect email sent from the server to the web client. The IRS has no reason not to use this setup. I'm afraid Lois losing her email on her personal workstation did not lose the email. Lois did not lose the email when her harddrive crashed.

So you claim. I'll believe the IRS IG.




Sanity -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/15/2014 9:25:56 PM)

This is fitting

Obama's rat-faced lackey at the DOJ ignores Obama's IRS going after citizens suspected of dissent because he is too busy investigating citizens suspected of dissent

quote:

Eric Holder’s Justice Dept. investigates Nebraska farmer’s possible abuse of power

If youve been asking for a Justice Department to get involved in the IRS scandal, well, thats just not going to happen. That is, unless Lois Lerners missing emails somehow ended up in a mock outhouse on this parade float:


[image]local://upfiles/292349/6A2C59CDE1664558912BA755471362DC.jpg[/image]




Arturas -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/15/2014 10:38:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

The amount you don't know about computers is staggering. Email is not usually stored on servers. The only usual time an email is stored on a server is when it is sent through a web mail service. If you have a mail client like Exchange on your computer, which Lerner likely did, then your computer sends and receives email directly. So yes, if her hard drive crashed and she had not been archiving her email those emai
ls are likely lost unless you can get the recipient's copies


It's just the opposite. My Exchange Outlook email client stores emails on servers. There are no emails solely stored on my workstation. The proof is apparent when my laptop is off and I access my Exchange email via a web client, which is run on a web browser from any location and machine. This happens because the web client reads my email, sent and received, from the servers. I cannot believe the IRS uses more primitive email architecture than this common one, which has been in use for years now.

This means the emails are available unless someone took them from the backed up servers. I suggest the smoking gun emails are already available and have been reviewed. I also suggest the GOP is waiting to drop a hammer on all these Obama issues, the timing is wrong, it is time to take the Senate and Obama is a distraction right now. The hammer drops on him (and maybe even Hillary) after the mid-terms. Well after the mid-terms, closer to the Presidential election.

That's a very insecure setup. As can be seen from you accessing your mail over the web. That wouldn't be how the IRS would do things.




It's just the opposite. The Web client and exchange server use encryption to protect email sent from the server to the web client. The IRS has no reason not to use this setup. I'm afraid Lois losing her email on her personal workstation did not lose the email. Lois did not lose the email when her harddrive crashed.

So you claim. I'll believe the IRS IG.



So I claim what? You are suggesting somehow the most used email services in the universe is insecure and also that the IRS uses some primitive email program that requires you to save all your email on the local disk. I guess in some alternate universe this could happen.




Arturas -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/15/2014 10:42:16 PM)

quote:

I'll believe the IRS IG.


Might as well. Beats admitting calling other people stupid while being completely wrong, unless you are man enough to do so. How did that go?




thompsonx -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/18/2014 2:21:30 PM)


ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Wait. One pleads the fifth because they are guilty and are not required to incriminate themselves. Did you guys go over that already? Because that is the only reason you plead the fifth.


The 5th ammendment like the 2nd ammendment applies to all of us. By this metric one can easily say that because you choose to own a gun the only reason you have a gun is so you can commit a crime.
See how phoqueing stupid your logic is?




Yes it does. You have the right to bear arms, per the 2nd, and the right to avoid incriminating yourself by your testimony. Incriminate means just what it says. When you take the fifth, you say I will not say anything because if I am compelled to say anything truthful, as I would be sworn to do, my guilt will be proven by my own words.

Actually that is only partially true. Had you ever read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade you could have become acquainted with the reasons behind our constitution and ammendments thereto. You see it used to be that the prosecutor could have you tortured to get a confession. Sane people recognize that a tortured confession is bullshit.
You are suppose to be a pretty smart boy. You have told us so more than once. Remember when they went after billy the sax player. They put him under oath to question him about some things not related to monica's knee pads. It was while questioning him for "a" that he got caught up in a lie about "b". Anyone who does not recognize what a fishing expidition is does not deserve to be in a conversation with adults. Not allowing her enemies to go fishing in her fishing hole is legally protected. Your assumptions are worth nothing.


So taking the fifth is a two edged sword.

Nope. That is a single edge safety blade designed to keep thugs from running the judiciary.



Logically you are guilty

Not by the logic practiced by anyone with a three digit iq.




but since you cannot be forced to testify then you are free unless they find some other way to prove your guilt.

Why is it that in your zip code the inability of the prosecution to find any creditable evidence of a crime is prima facia evidence of guilt?


Prove. Taking the fifth says you are hiding the truth because the truth will take your freedom away.


Only to the most puerile among us.



The difference in that and admitting your guilt by testimony is no one can convict you by you taking the fifth.


Does it offend you that the jail bird issa can't have her waterboarded?

They must find the emails and so you take the fifth, look them in the eye and silently say "fuck you" and walk out hoping against hope they never find the emails.


Of course this assumes that you know "ex cathedra" that they exist[8|]

So, both amendments give us rights, the right to bear arms and the right not to put ourselves in jail with our testimony.


Wrong...please pay close attention....the 5th ammendment prevents u.s. citizens from being tortured to obtain a confession. If you are compelled to testify against your will is that not torture? If you dont think so then perhaps you do not know what compell means?



I need the 2nd amendment.

Well of course you do. [8|]


I am not a criminal so I don't need that clause in the fifth amendment



Is it your position that the founders were criminals who wrote the 5th ammendment to protect themselves....hmmmm You seem to be saying that all politicians including washington,jefferson,adams, and the rest of the founders were some giant criminal conspiracy? Why else would they create the 5th according to you?



although some very historic criminals have in the past.

So, I'm not sure where the "stupid" charge come from but I do hope you remember that being completely wrong while calling another stupid goes around and comes around very fast.


I did not call you stupid. I said your logic was stupid. Your inability to read and understand what I wrote might lead most to think you are
ignorant.




I will never call anyone stupid for being wrong. You are just wrong.

I pointed out not only that you were wrong but also that your logic,not you, was stupid.I have further pointed out that your understanding of the constitution and the forces that forged it is non existant.
None of this is meant to reflect on you as an individual...I am sure you are a very nice fellow...just ignorant as a stone without the ability to reason in a logical fashion.





DomKen -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/18/2014 4:11:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
So I claim what? You are suggesting somehow the most used email services in the universe is insecure and also that the IRS uses some primitive email program that requires you to save all your email on the local disk. I guess in some alternate universe this could happen.

Exchange/Outlook is insecure that is a fact. The way you use it is even more insecure. If the IRS was to have a breach and lose lots of personal info about taxpayers contained in emails there would be no end to the screaming.

The IRS IG told the House almost a year ago the HD in question had failed and been recycled and Issa never even noticed. This is just the latest outrage to fund raise on.




Sanity -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/18/2014 9:10:45 PM)

Turns out, just because a president acts as though he personally owns the DOJ doesn't mean that his henchmen actually control the entire justice system

Tea party groups' suit against IRS moves forward[




Lucylastic -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/18/2014 9:21:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Turns out, just because a president acts as though he personally owns the DOJ doesn't mean that his henchmen actually control the entire justice system

Tea party groups' suit against IRS moves forward[


So your claims were bullshit after all.....what a surprise!!!!!!! Not.....
Despot, king tyrant, ruler, blah blah blah, is all just paranoia and utter crap???
Of course it is......
Thankyou for getting to the truth...
Well ....debunking your version of it anyway.
Nice job!




Sanity -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/18/2014 9:34:16 PM)

If you really believe that I have claimed that Barack is king, you don't understand sarcasm.




Lucylastic -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 5:52:47 AM)

Odd how you like to pretend to yourself that normal people have no eyes or the ability to understand "sarcasm"
I have a black belt in sarcasm and bullshit detection.




Sanity -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 6:03:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Odd how you like to pretend to yourself that normal people have no eyes or the ability to understand "sarcasm"
I have a black belt in sarcasm and bullshit detection.



We can all see that [:D]




mnottertail -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 7:24:41 AM)

She definitely has you nailed.




Lucylastic -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 8:00:43 AM)

unfortunately its in every post... hardly a worthy opponent....I'm just keeping my hand in.




Lucylastic -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 9:41:34 AM)

oh dear....

Republicans Freak Out At Learning Reagan Decree Protects Lois Lerner

WASHINGTON -- Although legal experts warned at the time that little would come of Rep. Darrell Issa's (R-Calif.) attempt to prosecute former IRS official Lois Lerner for contempt of Congress, Republicans on Issa's Oversight and Government Reform Committee were infuriated to learn Thursday that a key obstacle is a Reagan administration legal opinion.

Issa's committee and then the full House voted to hold Lerner in contempt because she twice asserted her Fifth Amendment right in refusing to testify about her role in the IRS's botched screening of political nonprofits. She led the unit that oversees whether such groups get tax breaks, and was in charge when an inspector general found the IRS used "inappropriate" terms that largely singled out conservative groups.

When Congress finds a person in contempt, the matter is referred to federal prosecutors to be brought before a grand jury.

Legal experts advised against taking the step, and one of them, Gregory Gilchrist, told HuffPost at the time that it was unlikely a prosecutor would take up such a case, even though federal law spells out that pathway.

The reason, he said, is that not only were the facts in the case weak, but courts have historically given prosecutors wide leeway in deciding whether to bring cases.

"I just can't imagine that they would proceed with the case," Gilchrist said. "Unless the U.S. attorney takes a different view of the merits than I do, which I don't expect he will, I don't see any way this ends up in an actual charge."

At Thursday's hearing, several Republicans demanded that Deputy Attorney General James Cole explain why prosecutors had not already moved forward.

"This Congress held Lois Lerner in contempt, geez, almost nine weeks ago," Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) said, citing the procedure that's spelled out in law that says the prosecutor's duty "shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury."

But Cole noted that the prosecutor still gets to decide.

"My understanding of the law is that it does not strip the U.S. attorney of the normal discretion that the U.S. attorney has," Cole said. "He proceeds with the case if he believes it is appropriate to do so."

His answer infuriated Republicans, especially Issa, who demanded proof.

"If you think that's discretionary, would you please give that back to us in a legal opinion so that we can change the law to make it clear you're wrong," Issa said.

Issa's Democratic counterpart on the committee, Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.) was happy to find that opinion himself, written by conservative lawyer Theodore Olson when he worked for President Ronald Reagan's Office of Legal Counsel in 1984.

"What it says is, 'We believe Congress may not direct the executive to prosecute a particular individual without leaving any discretion to the executive to determine whether a violation of the law has occurred.' That's what the opinion says -- a 1984 opinion dated May 30," Cummings said. "This was a contempt citation coming from Congress that he was talking about."

The Obama administration wouldn't be the first to rely on that opinion. The White House also cited it under Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. And although Issa described it as a "new" assertion in the hearing, his own committee heard it in 2012 when Congress voted to hold the attorney general himself in contempt. Indeed, the letter asserting it was written by Cole, and Issa was CC'd.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/darrell-issa-contempt_n_5600789.html?utm_hp_ref=politics




DomKen -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/19/2014 10:21:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

"What it says is, 'We believe Congress may not direct the executive to prosecute a particular individual without leaving any discretion to the executive to determine whether a violation of the law has occurred.' That's what the opinion says -- a 1984 opinion dated May 30," Cummings said. "This was a contempt citation coming from Congress that he was talking about."

The Obama administration wouldn't be the first to rely on that opinion. The White House also cited it under Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. And although Issa described it as a "new" assertion in the hearing, his own committee heard it in 2012 when Congress voted to hold the attorney general himself in contempt. Indeed, the letter asserting it was written by Cole, and Issa was CC'd.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/darrell-issa-contempt_n_5600789.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Separation of powers. Issa really hates the Constitution.




thompsonx -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/20/2014 1:50:30 PM)


ORIGINAL: mnottertail

She definitely has you nailed.


He builds the cross in his work shop.
He carries it here on his back.
He brings a backhoe to lift it into place.
He lays out on it and holds the nails.
All she really has to do is swing the hammer.[8|]
I am surprised that she even punches in.
[;)]




DesideriScuri -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/24/2014 7:41:24 AM)

FR,

All may not yet be over...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/23/tale-tapes-irs-head-confirms-investigators-have-found-backup-tapes-in-lerner/
    quote:

    The head of the IRS confirmed Wednesday that investigators looking into missing emails from ex-agency official Lois Lerner have found and are reviewing "backup tapes" -- despite earlier IRS claims that the tapes had been recycled.

    IRS Commissioner John Koskinen, testifying before a House oversight subcommittee, stressed that he does not know "how they found them" or "whether there's anything on them or not." But he said the inspector general's office advised him the investigators are reviewing tapes to see if they contain any "recoverable" material.

    The revelation is significant because the IRS claimed, when the agency first told Congress about the missing emails, that backup tapes "no longer exist because they have been recycled."

    It is unclear whether the tapes in IG custody contain any Lerner emails, but Koskinen said investigators are now checking.




Lucylastic -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/24/2014 8:00:15 AM)

dayam I thought I had posted this a couple of days ago..
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/irs-lois-lerner-scandal-e-mails-backup-109182.html




Sanity -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/24/2014 9:18:28 AM)

Emails between IRS goons and the White House?

Could get real interesting...




mnottertail -> RE: Lois Lerner (7/24/2014 9:31:34 AM)

I would assume there are millions of emails between the white house, and the IRS. Not between Obama and Lerner.




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