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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

No we don't.
And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel. I don't recall any time when the IRA claimed it was their duty as Catholics (and I don't think they represented the Catholic church) to exterminate all Englishmen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

No we don't.
And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel. I don't recall any time when the IRA claimed it was their duty as Catholics (and I don't think they represented the Catholic church) to exterminate all Englishmen.

My limited understand of the Northern Ireland situation, after all Englishmen think they're all lunatics and don't care and don't want to know, is that Wolfe Tone was a Protestant. But, whatever way you shape it, people from another land had set up shop in their country and they acted accordingly. I know that if someone came to England and tried to impose foreign rule and culture we'd be more than slightly disappointed and would act accordingly. Whatever it takes in these situations and you can't expect the host nation to play by your rules when you have a much bigger arsenal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

No we don't.
And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel. I don't recall any time when the IRA claimed it was their duty as Catholics (and I don't think they represented the Catholic church) to exterminate all Englishmen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

No we don't.
And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel. I don't recall any time when the IRA claimed it was their duty as Catholics (and I don't think they represented the Catholic church) to exterminate all Englishmen.

Some Israelis do not agree with you as witnessed by their newspapers with articles condemning the actions of the Israeli government. On the other hand, others would agree with you.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
No it wasn't. Islam was borne in say the 8th century? The British people who moved to Ireland were largely Lowland Scots and Northern English from the very North of England. These people were known as 'Border Warriors' who fought one another constantly, and they were also the people who migrated to the South of the USA in droves. I was in a museum in Nashville last year and was amazed to see that they think their ancestors were 'Scots-Irish': there is no such thing. They were Ulster-Scots (and some Northern English) and they and their descendants would break your knee-caps for suggesting they were Irish. Either way, the migration from Lowland Scotland and Northern England, the border region, happened later than the 8th century.

A lot of us mean we have both Scots and Irish ancestry. My father's side traces back to a highland scot who was transported after Culloden. My mother's side is more muddled but includes a bunch of Irish who came over at various times up to the famine..

Maybe so, Ken, couldn't say about your ancestors. But, I can say the Lowland Scots are fiercely proud to be British and Protestant. In many ways, it is the Lowland Scots and their descendants the Ulster Scots who live in Northern Ireland who cling doggedly to the notion of Britain. After all, the Scots had a true reformation like the Germans and are a Protestant nation whereas the English had a mere falling out with the Pope rather than a reformation and retained many catholic practices in the English church. We're a halfway house between Protestantism and Catholicism whereas the Scots are undoubtedly and doggedly protestant.

Here are the Glasgow Scots singing their Protestant and anti-Catholic songs. This sort of thing happens regularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland but never in England. The great irony is that when the Americans refer to 'the Brits' they mean the English and believe the Scots and Northern Irish are Celts and anti-British, when the reality is that the Scots and Northern Irish cling doggedly to being British and the English wouldn't be seen dead marching around like these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQpShLlTKM

No we don't.
And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel. I don't recall any time when the IRA claimed it was their duty as Catholics (and I don't think they represented the Catholic church) to exterminate all Englishmen.

My limited understand of the Northern Ireland situation, after all Englishmen think they're all lunatics and don't care and don't want to know, is that Wolfe Tone was a Protestant. But, whatever way you shape it, people from another land had set up shop in their country and they acted accordingly. I know that if someone came to England and tried to impose foreign rule and culture we'd be more than slightly disappointed and would act accordingly. Whatever it takes in these situations and you can't expect the host nation to play by your rules when you have a much bigger arsenal.

Are you aware that England had decades before released Ireland (not to be confused with Northern Ireland) which was mostly Catholic from Great Britain in the hopes that by making the predominately Catholic portion of the island separate they could end the violence? As you are British I have to assume you know this.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I was thinking if he had said, "You know; here in the US, West Virginia, and Virginia are two different states...' I could brooke him saying that to an Englishman, but to tell an Englishman that Northern Ireland and Ireland are different..........well, it is beyond impudent. Never mind that his premises are complete foolishness.

Sean Connory <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(Note the Irish name...)

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Isn't West Virginia Dolly Parton and Hillbilly country? Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis live up there somewhere in the hills before marrying his 13 year old cousin?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Are you aware that England had decades before released Ireland (not to be confused with Northern Ireland) which was mostly Catholic from Great Britain in the hopes that by making the predominately Catholic portion of the island separate they could end the violence? As you are British I have to assume you know this.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Isn't West Virginia Dolly Parton and Hillbilly country? Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis live up there somewhere in the hills before marrying his 13 year old cousin?

Dolly was born in Tennessee and Lewis was born in Louisiana. But if I remember correctly he did marry the cousin. West Virginia was almost heaven to John Denver and if you had ever driven through the Blue Ridge Mountains you would know why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZBQjTF_Hpk

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
West Virginia was almost heaven to John Denver and if you had ever driven through the Blue Ridge Mountains you would know why.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
West Virginia was almost heaven to John Denver and if you had ever driven through the Blue Ridge Mountains you would know why.

Only if you were lost. West Virginia is Appalachia but not part of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Those run to the east. Usually when people are talking about the Blue Ridges they mean TN, NC and VA. Specifically the area around Great Smoky Mountains Park between Gatlinburg TN and Cherokee NC. But they do run in a narrow strip up to  Shenandoah along the Appalachian trail and the Blue ridge Parkway.

I'm from a little farther west but my heart will always belong to those mountains.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I was thinking if he had said, "You know; here in the US, West Virginia, and Virginia are two different states...' I could brooke him saying that to an Englishman, but to tell an Englishman that Northern Ireland and Ireland are different..........well, it is beyond impudent. Never mind that his premises are complete foolishness.

Sean Connory <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(Note the Irish name...)

Any man reasonably well read knows that a nation state in the modern age is defined by its culture, religion and ethnicity and that would undoubtedly mean that Northern Ireland and the Republic Ireland are two separate entities.

Isn't West Virginia Dolly Parton and Hillbilly country? Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis live up there somewhere in the hills before marrying his 13 year old cousin?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
West Virginia was almost heaven to John Denver and if you had ever driven through the Blue Ridge Mountains you would know why.

Only if you were lost. West Virginia is Appalachia but not part of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Those run to the east. Usually when people are talking about the Blue Ridges they mean TN, NC and VA. Specifically the area around Great Smoky Mountains Park between Gatlinburg TN and Cherokee NC. But they do run in a narrow strip up to  Shenandoah along the Appalachian trail and the Blue ridge Parkway.

I'm from a little farther west but my heart will always belong to those mountains.

Is TN Tennessee, Ken? Went down to Sun Studios and spent a bit of time in Nashville. Went to a civil war site round there, too, can't remember the name but it is was round Nashville somewhere - some Gentleman's home who were largely Unionists and didn't join the war. I had no comprehension as to how many people fought so asked the guide and he said there were no records but he'd guessed 1 in 50 of males between 15 and 50. Thought it was an interesting tour and went to Shiloh later on. Brought a couple of books back which I have with me and one of them calculated that 85% of Virginia males between 15 and 50 fought at one point or another. So, I was left scratching my head thinking how could the number be so high in Virginia and so low around Nashville?

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Are you aware that England had decades before released Ireland (not to be confused with Northern Ireland) which was mostly Catholic from Great Britain in the hopes that by making the predominately Catholic portion of the island separate they could end the violence? As you are British I have to assume you know this.

You need to read about Ireland and Irish history before you start spouting 'facts'.

Ireland, or any part of it, has never really been 'British' except for oddball clusters of various years of British monarchs. It has been in ownership of several countries (including the Vikings and several wars with the French) until 1171 when Henry II of England lands at Waterford and declares himself Lord of Ireland.
Ireland came to being under 'British' rule (officially) on 1 January 1801 when the Acts of Union 1800 were passed. The Kingdom of Ireland is annexed to Great Britain. 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland' is formed.

Some history in brief -
c400: Niall Noígíallach is placed by Medieval texts as a legendary Goidelic High King of Ireland.
563: Irish monastic influence during the Golden Age peaks with the foundation of monastic schools by Columba and Brendan at Iona and Clonfert.
795: First Viking raids on Iona, Rathlin Island, Inishmurray and Inishbofin.
852: Vikings Ivar Beinlaus and Olaf the White land in Dublin Bay and establish a fortress - close to where the city of Dublin now stands.
1014: Defeat of Máel Mórda mac Murchada and Viking forces by the armies of Brian Boru marks the beginning of the decline of Viking power in Ireland.
1297: The first representative Irish Parliament (of the Lordship of Ireland) meets in Dublin.
1494: Edward Poyning, Henry VII of England's Lord Deputy to Ireland, issued a declaration known as Poynings' Law under which the Irish parliament was to pass no law without the prior consent of the English parliament.
1534: Thomas FitzGerald, the 10th Earl of Kildare, publicly renounced his allegiance to Henry VIII of England.
1537: FitzGerald was hanged, drawn, and quartered at Tyburn.
1782: After agitation by the Irish Volunteers, the Parliament of Great Britain passed a number of reforms - including the repeal of Poynings' Law - collectively referred to as the Constitution of 1782.
1798: Battle of Castlebar: A combined French-Irish force defeated a vastly numerically superior British force at Castlebar. The Republic of Connacht was proclaimed at Castlebar. First United Irishmen rebellion.


It wasn't always owned by the British/English.
I can't find anywhere where England "released" Ireland at all - at least not voluntarily. From what I've read, it was always wrestled back by the Irish settlers and overlords from the British monarchy in one way or another until 1801.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Irish_history

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I understand about the difference between Northern and Southern Ireland, you should explain this to the IRA. Still this has nothing to do with Gaza and there is no parallel.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
West Virginia was almost heaven to John Denver and if you had ever driven through the Blue Ridge Mountains you would know why.

Only if you were lost. West Virginia is Appalachia but not part of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Those run to the east. Usually when people are talking about the Blue Ridges they mean TN, NC and VA. Specifically the area around Great Smoky Mountains Park between Gatlinburg TN and Cherokee NC. But they do run in a narrow strip up to  Shenandoah along the Appalachian trail and the Blue ridge Parkway.

I'm from a little farther west but my heart will always belong to those mountains.

Is TN Tennessee, Ken? Went down to Sun Studios and spent a bit of time in Nashville. Went to a civil war site round there, too, can't remember the name but it is was round Nashville somewhere - some Gentleman's home who were largely Unionists and didn't join the war. I had no comprehension as to how many people fought so asked the guide and he said there were no records but he'd guessed 1 in 50 of males between 15 and 50. Thought it was an interesting tour and went to Shiloh later on. Brought a couple of books back which I have with me and one of them calculated that 85% of Virginia males between 15 and 50 fought at one point or another. So, I was left scratching my head thinking how could the number be so high in Virginia and so low around Nashville?

Yes TN is the abbreviation for Tennessee. Every state has a standard two letter abbreviation.

At the time of the war Virginia was long settled and as urban and wealthy as any part of the Confederacy, Richmond was the capitol for a period of time. Virginia was a significant slave holding state as well. Tennessee, being so mountainous, never really had a big population nor a lot of slave holders. So Nashville might not have been a good spot for recruiting. Nashville being so far north might have had significant abolitionist leanings as well, Kentucky which is just a stones throw north did not secede at all.

Also a lot of the fighting occurred in Virginia which probably resulted in the locals getting involved more just out of self defense.

quote:

And my main point stands. Ireland and Scotland have been British for hundreds of years, the British considered the IRA to be domestic terrorists and thus comparing the British IRA conflict with the Israeli Hamas one is still apples to gravel.