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what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/18/2014 6:20:00 PM   
rubberloverhk


Posts: 21
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you

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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/18/2014 6:39:35 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you


No need to apologize. People with English as their primary language don't know the difference either. Opinions vary.

Just my two-cents' worth. All slaves are submissives, but not all submissives are slaves.

A slave tends to give up more rights, gives consensuality for the duration of his/her slavehood instead of per scene or each specific BDSM activity. Some may give a blanket consent of sorts, within pre-established limits.
A slave may sign a slave contract which spells out his/her duties, levels, duration and/or terms of service (which may be non-sexual or include sex), and get "registered" with a slave ID number so that both Master-Mistress and slave can regard their O/ownership as more official. However, there is no such thing as legally binding slavery, so this is basically a consensual ritual of formalization.

There are slaves who claim to be No Limits, which is absurd. Everyone has limits.

Those who engage in 24/7 TPE-Total Power Exchange are more likely to see themselves as slaves, and their Dominant as their Master.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to rubberloverhk)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/18/2014 7:08:05 PM   
PandoraFoxxx


Posts: 182
Joined: 1/3/2011
From: San Mateo, CA
Status: offline 		I'd like to add that it can mean different things to different people. Submissive is a way of being, slave is a state of mind. To me, the separation between the two is simply an emotional depth of mind and heart. I think it's a level one gets to with a partner - I believe one can fall into slavery, it can be a surrender that just happens - like falling in love.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/18/2014 7:36:20 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Y'know, I just HATE it when someone states that English is his or her seventeenth language and apologizes although it's actually much better than that of many native speakers.

I consider a slave to be like a submissive on steroids - same stuff, just more strongly so. The exact demarcation between the two is, to understate this, not universally agreed upon.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/18/2014 9:41:37 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you




Ignoring any difference will be just fine.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 12:28:23 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PandoraFoxxx

I'd like to add that it can mean different things to different people. Submissive is a way of being, slave is a state of mind. To me, the separation between the two is simply an emotional depth of mind and heart. I think it's a level one gets to with a partner - I believe one can fall into slavery, it can be a surrender that just happens - like falling in love.

That's really a romantic view, which gives me pause. I know I don't want a slave, but if my sub at some later point in our relationship wanted to be more of a love slave to me, I think I could go for that. Hm-mm, thought-provoking.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 12:32:52 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you



Ignoring any difference will be just fine.


Probably the best advice here thus far. I keep using the terms sub/slave or s-type to blend the two terms, but they're essentially interchangeable for most purposes.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 9:46:01 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The only people who can define what they are, are the people involved.

However, you aren't anything until you're in a relationship. You pick an orientation but without a partner, who are you submissive to?

The label is less important than the details.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 10:18:44 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you




Ignoring any difference will be just fine.



I agree.

Personally, I don't see any difference because I think the term "slave" has become trite. As has "submissive," for that matter.

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 11:00:57 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you




Ignoring any difference will be just fine.



I agree.

Personally, I don't see any difference because I think the term "slave" has become trite. As has "submissive," for that matter.
Interesting perspective...

In my more cynical times (aka feeling somewhat like an asshole), I tend to agree. What with submissives who only want to submit to what they want (is that a bedroom submissive or a do-me submissive? Does gender matter in applying additional labeling? What if what they wish to submit to includes outside the bedroom activities...is that when do-me comes into play? So many choices) to slaves whose limit list and other parameters surrounding her "slavery" is more restrictive than many submissives, it is hard to tell.

As noted above, the usual answer is that the difference usually comes down to the couple. Perhaps that...combined with the above...has what has led to a feeling of "triteness" in regards to those terms.

I could tell you to read John Warren's book, The Loving Dominant and/or Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns (authors' names escape me) and/or SM 101 by Jay Wiseman to read about submission and slavery and see them defined in different ways but there will still be those who tell you to use those terms as a framework only and "go your own way". I could tell you to look up the dictionary definition of submit and submissive and slave but those definitions are often quibbles over by practitioners, even the basic "to yield to the will of another".


< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/19/2014 11:36:42 AM >

(in reply to Kaliko)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 4:54:44 PM   
CloakedProtector


Posts: 70
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline 		rubberloverhk, the naming goes with the relational form.

It has been somewhat changed and suffered quite a bit from all kinds of internet definitions.
While you'll find several explanations for it this is the one I kept using.

Three relationship types. Master or Mistress vs slave, Dom or Domme vs sub(missive), Top vs bottom.

The first relationship type M/s used the Master/slave wording and is characterized by a 24/7, people involved living together.
The role applies continuously, partners may be but must not be married, exists in mono and poly variations, by definition exclusive (couple/household).
Makes 24/7 TPE possible, can be with or without contract.

The second one D/s Dom(me)/sub is also a 24/7, people not living together.
The Dom(me) exerts the role 24/7 but uses, besides visits, other means. Subs get orders to execute alone and report back, possibly checked by the Dom(me).
D/s became a lot more interesting with modern means such as web-cams, mobiles, chat's, etc.
The relationship has a number of priorities as very often at least one of the involved parties is in another relationship and parties have jobs, kids and other things to attend too.
Mono or non-exclusive (mostly on Dominant side) hardly used in poly with the exception of occasional people joining for play, Mostly contracts are not used but can be.

The third form, T/b is a play window relationship type. Start, end and play topic (and sometimes even roles) are negotiated upfront and play is restricted to the window.
Most often no contracts. mono or non-exclusive. This model is mainly used by pro's (although they may not call it so) people switching roles and people searching non 24/7 play in occasional or longer term play-partner relationships.
The most important characteristic of T/b is that parties are EQUALS outside the play window. The role applies only during play windows.

So the submissive party goes actually by 3 names in BDSM: slave, sub and bottom.


Now that being said, you'll find a lot of resistance against EVERY definition of slave vs submissive.
The reason is that there are a large number of submissives that are not waiting for any BDSM play but just want to full-fill their submissiveness inside a relationship, 24/7.
And you can hardly blame them for not calling themselves slaves, can you.

Therefore the case is simplified by saying that the above definition is within a BDSM context and not every submissive is practising BDSM .

So maybe as a bottom line one could say: Both,or all 3, want the submissive role and what they are called in the BDSM community kind of grows out of the relational type there are in and according to the teachings in wording they adhere too.


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 6:29:11 PM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CloakedProtector

The second one D/s Dom(me)/sub is also a 24/7, people not living together.
The Dom(me) exerts the role 24/7 but uses, besides visits, other means. Subs get orders to execute alone and report back, possibly checked by the Dom(me).
D/s became a lot more interesting with modern means such as web-cams, mobiles, chat's, etc.
The relationship has a number of priorities as very often at least one of the involved parties is in another relationship and parties have jobs, kids and other things to attend too.
Mono or non-exclusive (mostly on Dominant side) hardly used in poly with the exception of occasional people joining for play, Mostly contracts are not used but can be.

Now that being said, you'll find a lot of resistance against EVERY definition of slave vs submissive.
The reason is that there are a large number of submissives that are not waiting for any BDSM play but just want to full-fill their submissiveness inside a relationship, 24/7.
And you can hardly blame them for not calling themselves slaves, can you.


Master and I consider me a submissive, not a slave. We are in a 24/7 D/s relationship, we do engage in BDSM play, we are monogamous and we do live together. There's PE but not TPE (in a way that I interpret TPE). If there was TPE, then I would see me as a slave but neither of us want TPE, again how I interpret TPE as being.




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I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.


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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/19/2014 11:30:58 PM   
Snitch


Posts: 105
Joined: 1/27/2013
Status: offline 		In general, a slave implies less control over one's affairs than a submissive.

(in reply to InHisHeart)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/20/2014 1:06:51 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk

Sorry English is my 3rd language. Would anyone explain me what's the difference between "submissive'' and ''slave''. I want to make sure the difference to avoid confusion. Thank you



If a lady has truly submitted to me, there is no difference.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to rubberloverhk)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/20/2014 6:53:38 AM   
Marioneta


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline 		The word 'submissive' suggests to me that one defers to ther Dom(me). The word 'slave' denotes that one is human property and so there is no deferral as there is no choice. Of course, there always is actual choice no matter how deeply one commits themselves to their role of slave. So, yes, ultimately for me it comes down to a 'slave' being a more serious, dedicated and deeply commited little s.

I say this as one who increasingly identifies as a slave.. While still clinging a bit to the 'submissive' label.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/20/2014 1:18:41 PM   
slaveoubliette


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/22/2014
Status: offline 		submissive equals a choice slave equals no choice. Then there is the issue that a slave makes the choice to submit....lol

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RE: what's the difference between a submissive and slave? - 7/21/2014 10:03:16 AM   
MistressRage


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		Slave- a submissive who has agreed to consensual non-consent. The slave will do what the Mistress wants, end of story. There is no negotiation or discussion of it. Unlike the submissive, the slave does not have the right to say no to whatever the Mistress wants. She wants you to suck dick and you don’t want to? Too bad, you’re doing it anyway. A slave has no autonomy, he has given over the ownership of his rights to the Dominant.

Submissive- a person who has agreed to surrender their power temporarily. They submit on a case by case basis. In other words, some submissives will submit to sissification but not sex with another male, or they may submit only for this one play scene or session. They may agree only to submit to certain types of activities. After that, they are under no further obligation to serve the Dominant. The submissive has every right to say no. A submissive retains their autonomy and ownership of themselves.

_____________________________

Mistress Rage
~outRAGEous~

I don't always return to a thread. It's usually best to message your replies directly to me.

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