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Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostitutio... - 7/19/2014 2:37:15 PM

Ilyrium

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For six years, they effectively legalized prostitution in one eastern US state, where the result was a lessening of rape!

Do you think this has ramifications for the finDomme type of prostitution (touching of genitalia)?

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RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 2:39:01 PM

Ilyrium

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Joined: 10/2/2013
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OOOps. Forgot the cite.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/17/when-rhode-island-accidentally-legalized-prostitution-rape-and-stis-decreased-sharply/?tid=pm_business_pop

(in reply to Ilyrium)

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RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 2:58:40 PM

Moderator3

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We are sorry for any confusion if you caught that. I'm to blame for the moving and then moving back of this thread. It was one of those threads that you automatically say, that goes somewhere else and then you look at it and rethink it.

So, I am sorry for leading M7 astray and if I confused you all.

< Message edited by Moderator3 -- 7/19/2014 2:59:05 PM >

(in reply to Ilyrium)

Post #: 3

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 4:40:58 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilyrium

For six years, they effectively legalized prostitution in one eastern US state, where the result was a lessening of rape!

Do you think this has ramifications for the finDomme type of prostitution (touching of genitalia)?

In what world is touching of genitalia without penetration considered sex? CBT is sex?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Ilyrium)

Post #: 4

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 4:52:23 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilyrium

For six years, they effectively legalized prostitution in one eastern US state, where the result was a lessening of rape!

Do you think this has ramifications for the finDomme type of prostitution (touching of genitalia)?

In what world is touching of genitalia without penetration considered sex? CBT is sex?

Ditto.
Also- it lessened reported rapes.
I'd argue a "prostitute" (legal or not) is facing a lot of victim blaming when it comes to reporting, MORE prostitutes may mean a lessened rate of reporting.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 5

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 5:26:23 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

In what world is touching of genitalia without penetration considered sex? CBT is sex?

I have it on good authority that blow jobs do not constitute sex. Expecially if she is wearing a blue dress.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 6

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 5:30:37 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Ditto.
Also- it lessened reported rapes.
I'd argue a "prostitute" (legal or not) is facing a lot of victim blaming when it comes to reporting, MORE prostitutes may mean a lessened rate of reporting.

In nevada those, counties with legal prostitution have a extremely low rape incidence.

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 7

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 5:45:58 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

In what world is touching of genitalia without penetration considered sex? CBT is sex?

I have it on good authority that blow jobs do not constitute sex. Expecially if she is wearing a blue dress.

I thought it required only a yellow flowery dress that covered everything and...only of she swallowed.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 8

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 10:58:27 PM

bayareacouple

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Joined: 7/4/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
In what world is touching of genitalia without penetration considered sex? CBT is sex?

In the world of California.

Specifically California Prostitution & Solicitation Laws Penal Code 647(b) PC.
http://www.shouselaw.com/engaging_in_prostitution.html

Notice that you can't even OFFER to touch someone's sexual areas (which includes the buttocks) for money.
So, you don't have to actually touch anything, and still be convicted of prostitution.

PROSTITUTION:
"Prostitution" means engaging in sexual intercourse or any lewd act with another person in exchange for money or other consideration.
A "lewd" act is defined as any act that involves touching the genitals, buttocks, or female breast of another person with the specific intent to arouse or gratify someone sexually.
"Willfully" means deliberately or on purpose. It does not require an intent to break the law.

SOLICITATION:
The legal definition of soliciting prostitution is:
That you solicited another person to engage in an act of prostitution, and that you did so with the specific intent to engage in an act of prostitution.

Of course, there are more than one set of prostitution laws, in California:
http://prostitution.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=725

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 9

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/19/2014 11:14:23 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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What is considered "sex" and "prostitution" aren't necessarily talking about intercourse no matter how much the kink community wants to try to play that card. Unlesss of course, you want to ttry to claim a hand job for money isn't prostitution. If so, good luck in court.

I'm not against the legalization of prostitution but let's all be real. When someone takes money from another with the agreement they will be performing acts which are likely going to result in the payee getting sexual satisfacion, it is a form of prostitution. Dress it in leather, call it a "tribute," or whatever you want. But don't try and pretend you aren't working in the sex industry or that the clients sexual satisfaction isn't involved.

(in reply to bayareacouple)

Post #: 10

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 1:04:15 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilyrium

For six years, they effectively legalized prostitution in one eastern US state, where the result was a lessening of rape!
<snip>

Not to dispute or refute this oft-reported finding, which I've been hearing for at least 30 years, I don't get the causal factors.

Men who are prone to rape women, are the same men who:
(a) Can afford to pay for sex?
(b) Are willing to pay for sex?
(c) And/or are sex addicts?
(d) Would be conscientious about the legality of prostitution?
(e) What about all the rhetoric that rape is not a sex crime--that at it's core, it is a crime of [over]power[ing]?
Are any of the above true? Is this not implying that johns = sex offenders who are now law-abiding citizens?

This sort of logic just doesn't compute and sounds more like a p.c. spin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
<snip>
In nevada those, counties with legal prostitution have a extremely low rape incidence.

Well yeah, in Nevada, home of the high-roller. Perhaps all the would-be rapists have become gambling addicts instead.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to Ilyrium)

Post #: 11

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 8:52:20 AM

bayareacouple

Posts: 24
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
What is considered "sex" and "prostitution" aren't necessarily talking about intercourse no matter how much the kink community wants to try to play that card.

Exactly!
If sexual gratification by touch (or promise) is tied directly to something of monetary value, then it's what the law says it is.
The interesting question is why would allowing that, then cut down on the forceful rapes that are reported?

Assuming the rape statistic is valid, and keeping to the findom question, what would naturally fall out is that allowing kinky sex for hire to be legal would actually improve public health and safety!

Sexually transmitted diseases and rapes would go down by more than a whopping 1/3 as a direct consequence!
Findom rights would take a huge leap forward.

That this dramatic 1/3 reduction of violence against women and sexually transmitted infections can be achieved simply by removing criminal penalties for findoms, is food for thought, if only because (a) it's an unexpected consequence, and (b) the statistics are huge (40% is a big number).

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 12

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 9:25:19 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Not to dispute or refute this oft-reported finding, which I've been hearing for at least 30 years, I don't get the causal factors.

Men who are prone to rape women, are the same men who:
(a) Can afford to pay for sex?

My guess is that someone who is destitute may have more pressing things on their mind. So I would go with a yes on that one.

(b) Are willing to pay for sex?

I should think that most rational people would rather buy than steal when the product is for sale. When the product is extant but not available for sale then theft would seem to be a motivation.

(c) And/or are sex addicts?

Possibly

(d) Would be conscientious about the legality of prostitution?

The prima facia evidence would seem to be an overwhelming yes.

(e) What about all the rhetoric that rape is not a sex crime--that at it's core, it is a crime of [over]power[ing]?

If that were true then why do they fuck them? Why not just beat the hell out of them?

This sort of logic just doesn't compute and sounds more like a p.c. spin.

Simple way to test it is to legalize prostitution nationwide and see what happens?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
<snip>
In nevada those, counties with legal prostitution have a extremely low rape incidence.

Well yeah, in Nevada, home of the high-roller. Perhaps all the would-be rapists have become gambling addicts instead.

Nevada has about 30 or so butt huts. Two are an hours drive from vegas. Two more are within an hour of Reno. There are 4 about twenty minutes from the capital, carson city. The rest are spread out over tens of thousands of sqare miles occupied by less than a hundred thousand people half of whom are not male. I do not see the metric of gambling as having any effect other than the size of the tip one might leave if he had been particularly lucky at the tables.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 13

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 12:00:22 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Not to dispute or refute this oft-reported finding, which I've been hearing for at least 30 years, I don't get the causal factors.

Men who are prone to rape women, are the same men who:
(a) Can afford to pay for sex?

My guess is that someone who is destitute may have more pressing things on their mind. So I would go with a yes on that one.

Destitute would-be rapists more than likely have rape on their minds. Then where their next meal (or victim) is coming from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
(b) Are willing to pay for sex?

I should think that most rational people would rather buy than steal when the product is for sale. When the product is extant but not available for sale then theft would seem to be a motivation.

You do know that you are referring to "most rational" people, who do not go around pre-meditating or committing rape.
Rape is a violation and desecration of another's body, not simple theft. Rational thinking hardly enters into it. Both do, however, reveal poor impulse control and disrespect for the belongings of others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
(c) And/or are sex addicts?

Possibly

Can't argue with you there. Although I should emphasize that I didn't mean to imply that ALL sex addicts are potential rapists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
(d) Would be conscientious about the legality of prostitution?

The prima facia evidence would seem to be an overwhelming yes.

... So the same sociopathic/psychopathic criminal mentality that wouldn't give a shit about trying to get away with committing a sex crime or sexual assault would stop to ponder whether prostitution is legal in their locality?
In a pig's eye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
(e) What about all the rhetoric that rape is not a sex crime--that at it's core, it is a crime of [over]power[ing]?

If that were true then why do they fuck them? Why not just beat the hell out of them?

Sometimes they do that also. I remember there was a brunette journalist who outed herself in People magazine back in the '80s as having survived an all-night long home invasion ordeal where her rapist repeatedly assaulted her. The bizarre part of her story (which I've heard from other rape survivors' accounts) is that he was able to maintain an erection for 4-6 hours--WTF? Viagra wasn't even invented back then either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
This sort of logic just doesn't compute and sounds more like a p.c. spin.

Simple way to test it is to legalize prostitution nationwide and see what happens?

Not my call. IMPO I think shiftyw may be onto something. There is a notable difference between the actual incidence of rape and its reporting.
Many of those who advocate the legalization of prostitution can't see the forest for the trees or make discerning judgments outside of a very narrow PoV.
I would sooner see marijuana become legalized for its therapeutic benefits. A more widespread and socially-sanctioned objectification of women is of no therapeutic value to at least half of the general populace.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Well yeah, in Nevada, home of the high-roller. Perhaps all the would-be rapists have become gambling addicts instead.
....
I do not see the metric of gambling as having any effect other than the size of the tip one might leave if he had been particularly lucky at the tables.

Or what rates a customer can afford, whether he is willing to pay a couple thousand dollars to spend 6 minutes with a former porn*star*-turned-hooker, or pay a couple hundred for that same 6 minutes of average ejaculation time with a *regular* hooker.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 14

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 12:18:51 PM

Allmax

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/11/2006
Status: offline

Is it possible that the alleged reduction in rape is in part due to the fact that fewer women in general are lingering on the streets where they are more vulnerable? In a regulated system with "butt huts" to borrow the term, it would seem there us at least a small degree of additional protection for those involved.
And before we make a big argument about objectification of women, please remember that the male prostitute, aka the gigolo, while less common is a decidedly real thing.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 15

RE: Legalizing prostitution (including FinDomme prostit... - 7/20/2014 12:29:38 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Allmax

Is it possible that the alleged reduction in rape is in part due to the fact that fewer women in general are lingering on the streets where they are more vulnerable? In a regulated system with "butt huts" to borrow the term, it would seem there us at least a small degree of additional protection for those involved.
And before we make a big argument about objectification of women, please remember that the male prostitute, aka the gigolo, while less common is a decidedly real thing.

No, nobody has a monopoly on that. However, from what I know about male prostitutes - commonly referred to as "hustlers" - this is more of a conscious choice on their part, and some of the ones who consider themselves straight who cater to gay males kid themselves into believing the hustler is the one who is objectifying the gay john. In the case of husters/gigolos, they do not rely on pimps the way female prostitutes are often forced to do, from what I understand.

And no matter how you look at it, the "House" in a more secure environment (not discounting the value of that) or pimp gets their cut of the action.

As for not "lingering on the streets," we should be seeing a reduction in more street crimes than just a lowering in reported rapes.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to Allmax)

Post #: 16

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