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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:19:09 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

FR

I wonder how a message board tax might go over. For each post, pay a 10¢ tax.




Then we could have free Internet

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:37:32 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Which is why everyone here gets health care.



Sounds like our VA

And nanny state healthcare obviously doesn't make government efficient, doesn't make anything cheap or "free", or politicians honest, just buys votes and makes people dependent on government like a little child is dependent on his mommy



Really?? What a refreshing and totally naive PoV!

Do YOU have universal healthcare at only 8% of earnings??
And totally free for those on any sort of welfare or low wages or disability income?
The sort of healthcare that doesn't discriminate against pre-existing conditions or gender?
Can see your GP or go to hospital or see a dentist as many times as you need to - for FREE???
I don't see your private health insurance system offering such goodies or at such a low price.

It's far superior to your VA and it's available to everyone - not just veterans.



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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:40:40 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Which is why everyone here gets health care.



Sounds like our VA

And nanny state healthcare obviously doesn't make government efficient, doesn't make anything cheap or "free", or politicians honest, just buys votes and makes people dependent on government like a little child is dependent on his mommy



Really?? What a refreshing and totally naive PoV!

Do YOU have universal healthcare at only 8% of earnings??
And totally free for those on any sort of welfare or low wages or disability income?
The sort of healthcare that doesn't discriminate against pre-existing conditions or gender?
Can see your GP or go to hospital or see a dentist as many times as you need to - for FREE???
I don't see your private health insurance system offering such goodies or at such a low price.

It's far superior to your VA and it's available to everyone - not just veterans.




Right - its all free

Gosh, leftists are so smart

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:42:57 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, it's better funded.

Because they understand health care costs money.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/25/2014 5:43:23 AM >

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:48:29 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, it's better funded.

Because they understand health care costs money.




It's not as well funded as we'd like.
But it's sure as fuck better than lining the pockets of insurance companies that are only doing it for profit!!


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:51:36 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, it's better funded.

Because they understand health care costs money.





Its not cheap or free, its politicians purchasing votes with taxpayer money and its giving government more and more control over the people

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:52:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Cutting it at the expense of our veteran's medical care.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:54:35 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

It's not as well funded as we'd like.
But it's sure as fuck better than lining the pockets of insurance companies that are only doing it for profit!!



Always demanding more

Your fat lazy bureaucrats work hard for their money for almost ten minutes of every week

The private sector can be far more efficient if government isn't too much in the way

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:55:13 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And yet . . . it's not.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:57:41 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet . . . it's not.


There are no government regs in the way?

Seriously?

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:58:42 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		And before you come back with the standard propaganda, no I did not write anything like there should be no laws or regulation

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 6:08:18 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You're comparing us to Europe. And we have lower regulation than a few decades back. Yet . . . without the results.

Really.

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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 6:17:49 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The private sector can be far more efficient if government isn't too much in the way

Oh dear! Another one that doesn't have a fucking clue.

Ok smartass.... explain this conundrum -
Local NHS hospital buys a new scanner. Costs about £22,000 on the open market.
They pay, through the NHS (government money, paid for with our taxes), around £8,000.
The local private hospital haven't got one because they can't afford one!!

The power of government spending with hugely negotiated discounts
So who is the better resource for supplying equipment??
The private sector (insurance company funded) can't afford it because they would have to pay the full price. Those patients using private medical insurance lose out.
The government funded hospital gets one because the government is able to push down the price so they can afford it.

It's the same principal as the supermarkets vs the corner shop and bulk buying.
Good example: Local pharmacy (a well-known UK franchise chain) price for Paracetamol - 45p. Local corner shop that buys from the wholesaler - 38p. Any of the local supermarkets (probably buys them by the boatload for the whole country) - 19p.

See the logic??
In many ways, the government can be more efficient at providing goods and services than the private sector purely because of the sheer numbers involved.

And yeah.... I like my nanny state where I get my needs met for FREE and I don't have to worry about some gundiot blowing my head off!!


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“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 7:23:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Is the VAT the only tax you have? Is there a minimum income exempt from VAT taxes?
Yes to the first question and no to the second.


You have NI, don't you? You also have an income tax, don't you?

quote:

Earning more should be rewarded. It shouldn't be punished. Forcing equality of outcomes is worse than allowing inequality to naturally occur (I do so oppose inequality forced upon people, regardless what some might spout on here).
Those in power dont pay fair wages, even if they did the system is wrong


You don't get to define what a fair wage is, though. That's the point. Those with the money get to have a say in it. Those who want the money get a say, too. If they can't come to an agreement, they don't enter into a contract. Isn't this the way it's done across the pond?

quote:

The idea that taxing income, earnings, is a good thing, is silly, imo. Taxing consumption, on the other hand, isn't. You have a much, much better handle on your consumption than you do your earnings.
I have worked under both systems and you are 100% wrong, take it from someone who knows.


You don't have a handle on your consumption more than your earnings? Really? How's that then?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 3:22:21 PM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
It's not as well funded as we'd like.
But it's sure as fuck better than lining the pockets of insurance companies that are only doing it for profit!!

Always demanding more

Your fat lazy bureaucrats work hard for their money for almost ten minutes of every week

The private sector can be far more efficient if government isn't too much in the way


I find it amusing when people blame government yet give a total pass on companies. You do understand that a company IS a form of government, right?

Corporations are nothing more that the modern idea of Feudalism:

CEO = King
CEO's People = Dukes
Middle Management = Barons
Low Level Management = Knights
Workers not in Management = Serfs, slaves, peasants

An if you make your boss look good to his boss, he'll promote you into his spot when it rises up the food chain over others. But its not Feudalism in that those people are related by birth, but by money (sort of a mercenary take on Feudalism).

If the private sector was just as efficient or more so than the government, why all the lawsuits, court cases, and problems when government limiting healthcare non-patient costs (i.e. paying CEOs, perks, etc.)? If those companies were just as efficient if not more so, why all the flak? The reality is, they were...LESS...efficient than the government. Hence why they fought so hard and in so many ways.


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:02:01 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, it's better funded.

Because they understand health care costs money.






Thank You...... I couldnt be arsed to explain it to sanity again.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 5:04:48 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Is the VAT the only tax you have? Is there a minimum income exempt from VAT taxes?
Yes to the first question and no to the second.


You have NI, don't you? You also have an income tax, don't you?

quote:

Earning more should be rewarded. It shouldn't be punished. Forcing equality of outcomes is worse than allowing inequality to naturally occur (I do so oppose inequality forced upon people, regardless what some might spout on here).
Those in power dont pay fair wages, even if they did the system is wrong


You don't get to define what a fair wage is, though. That's the point. Those with the money get to have a say in it. Those who want the money get a say, too. If they can't come to an agreement, they don't enter into a contract. Isn't this the way it's done across the pond?

quote:

The idea that taxing income, earnings, is a good thing, is silly, imo. Taxing consumption, on the other hand, isn't. You have a much, much better handle on your consumption than you do your earnings.
I have worked under both systems and you are 100% wrong, take it from someone who knows.


You don't have a handle on your consumption more than your earnings? Really? How's that then?



Yes we have NI and Income tax.....wtf is your point other than the drivel above. As with Sanity, I am sick of correcting your gross stupidity.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/25/2014 7:38:28 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes we have NI and Income tax.....wtf is your point other than the drivel above. As with Sanity, I am sick of correcting your gross stupidity.


My gross stupidity?!? I asked if the VAT tax was the only tax you had, and you answered that it was. When I pointed out income taxes and NI, and you admit you do have those, too, you're correcting me?!?

You're even more full of yourself than some others on here.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/26/2014 4:50:43 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes we have NI and Income tax.....wtf is your point other than the drivel above. As with Sanity, I am sick of correcting your gross stupidity.


My gross stupidity?!? I asked if the VAT tax was the only tax you had, and you answered that it was. When I pointed out income taxes and NI, and you admit you do have those, too, you're correcting me?!?

You're even more full of yourself than some others on here.






"You don't have a handle on your consumption more than your earnings? Really? How's that then?

<< This drivel. Debating the NHS with you is like going round in circles due to you being obtuse. Like I said, our VAT system isnt what anyone wants, it has morphed since conception and isnt a fair tax as it hits the poor most.

As for me being full of myelf, its needed to debate with some of you Republicans. One idiot even posted the following, Hey! Is Harry Potter running the NHS?!? when I challenged him with a serious question on the NHS....... Do you need telling who it was ?


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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: How should the USA Fund its highway system? - 7/26/2014 7:03:42 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes we have NI and Income tax.....wtf is your point other than the drivel above. As with Sanity, I am sick of correcting your gross stupidity.

My gross stupidity?!? I asked if the VAT tax was the only tax you had, and you answered that it was. When I pointed out income taxes and NI, and you admit you do have those, too, you're correcting me?!?
You're even more full of yourself than some others on here.

"You don't have a handle on your consumption more than your earnings? Really? How's that then?
<< This drivel. Debating the NHS with you is like going round in circles due to you being obtuse. Like I said, our VAT system isnt what anyone wants, it has morphed since conception and isnt a fair tax as it hits the poor most.
As for me being full of myelf, its needed to debate with some of you Republicans. One idiot even posted the following, Hey! Is Harry Potter running the NHS?!? when I challenged him with a serious question on the NHS....... Do you need telling who it was ?


You still carry the misconception that I'm a Republican?!? I guess there is proof of your own gross stupidity right there.

I asked you if that was the only tax you had.

You said it was.

I brought up the NI and income taxes.

You admitted you had them (which contradicts your statement that the VAT tax is the only tax you have) and attempted to point out some gross stupidity on my part? You must be in bizarro world because I was, in fact, right.

You think we'd not do well under a VAT tax. You may very well be right. But, that also means that you may very well be wrong, too. Your experience with a VAT tax isn't the same as using a consumption tax instead of an income tax. Your income tax and your NI are based on income (once you've made more than the exempt level), and you pay the VAT tax. Under most consumption tax plans, you pay a much higher consumption tax, but that's the only tax you pay; no income tax or anything like that.

Do you have full control over how much money you earn in a given year? If not, then you don't have control over how much you spend in taxes. Under a consumption plan, you have a much greater level of control of the amount you pay in taxes.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 100
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