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All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 7:47:10 AM

DarkSteven

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I started this thread with an ulterior motive: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4715407/mpage_1/tm.htm

Okay, full disclosure: my sub has been asked by Pandora Blake to be in a few spanking-themed videos to be shot Feb 2015. I will be in one or two of them as her spanker/Dom.

I envision a video in which she comes home exhausted after a day at work. I pamper her, make her dinner (likely throw a pizza in the oven. I'm a man, after all), give her a massage, and give her a hard, caring spanking.

Almost all paid spanking content is bought by men. Women prefer to spend for chick flicks, bodice rippers, etc. I want to find some way to create a scene that would appeal to women, and the above scenario is the best I could think of. Any outside input from women - better scenarios, ways to improve the above, etc.?

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 9:20:02 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Almost all paid spanking content is bought by men. Women prefer to spend for chick flicks, bodice rippers, etc. I want to find some way to create a scene that would appeal to women, and the above scenario is the best I could think of. Any outside input from women - better scenarios, ways to improve the above, etc.?

So women do watch porn, I know women who do, my girls one of them. Here's an interesting article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/18/women-and-porn-survey-ann-summers-sex_n_4297183.html

Statistically it's a much smaller number and I suspect that's at least in part on account of social conditioning in which case your kind of fucked. I mean you can find out exactly what sort of porn women are into to market toward them but until cultural shifts have made it more socially acceptable there just isn't going to be much of a market.

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 9:25:17 AM

Kaliko

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Personally, the idea of being pampered and then given a caring spanking is not a turn-on at all. But the idea of being pampered, period, is not a turn-on for me. I honestly don't know if I'm in the minority on that one.

Spanking for the sake of spanking wouldn't be my choice. Spanking because a woman deserves it is different. What I would find most erotic would be the tension and sensuality that leads up to the spanking. Subtlety would be important to me. The shame she feels at having done something to become so intolerable as to require a spanking to get back in line. What he is saying to her while he's spanking her. Being taught a lesson, but not with cruelty or yelling. Having it calmly explained to her why she's being spanked. Maybe even seeing a few tears in her eyes. Maybe instead of you making her dinner, you sit in a chair and watch her make dinner. Stare her down and build the tension. For me, the actual impact is the least of what I would care to see. But again, I have no idea if that's common or not.

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 10:06:33 AM

AAkasha

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I'm not a femsub so I can't relate to the content and its effectiveness, but as a woman I can make an observation. Because there was a period of time I was thinking, "woo baby I would LOVE to make REAL femdom porn and do it my way!" I get a "wild hare" often when I am my height of femdom-lust and I get like..ADD about it and have a million ideas that all seem so provocative and amazing that I should quit my career. Then I wise up.

Again, can't speak for all women. But I think what is lacking in porn in general is a sensuality that cannot be captured with one or two camera angles and quick, inexpensive editing - even if you have the two most charismatic or authentic people. I think it will still fall flat.

I can find bondage in mainstream films to be arousing because of the sensual way it is filmed. The breathing against the bonds, the tightening of a man's fists, the beads of sweat, the licking of his lips. All of these things are multiple camera angles shot in awesome lighting that is just like...visual poetry. How can it NOT be arousing?

I don't want to call it the "romancing" of the act because that's not really it. It's taking it to a visually respectable and sensual level that cannot be captured with the low budgets of porn.

I think women want to relate to or be emotionally involved or attracted to the characters. That cannot be accomplished without either real character development (which takes amazing script and actors to engage empathy). For femdoms looking at male subs, she has to eventually WANT that man to submit to HER and feel herself in the scene - she has to get off on his plight, and that cannot be captured unless it is done with excellent filmmaking/direction and a man who is really engaging in the way he surrenders, without coming off as a caricature of submission.

Another side note/observation. I think the desire to engage in a fantasy act (visually) with a "character" isn't instantaneous for women (would love to hear other's thoughts). I think women need to have a relationship or attraction to a character before she can really enjoy and project to enjoy porn. I think women for the most part don't see men and instantly want to submit to him or dominate him. It might be instant chemistry, but then his actions and demeanor need to back it (chemistry).

I'll use True Blood as an example, ignoring the fact that the later seasons including this one have been dismal. When I first watched the show, I had no "femdom lusts" toward any male characters on the show (although I could respect some of the hot sensual scenes and they made me a little excited from a voyeur POV). By the middle of the second season, I could find myself attracted to almost ALL of the male characters to be interested in the fantasy of dominating them. Even Eric, whose dominant "air" just rubbed me the wrong way and I found ZERO attraction in - his body language, his mouth, his presence grew on me. Now I find him incredibly engaging. And the season where he became - for lack of a better word - almost submissive to sookie, I went bananas.

That kind of "chemistry" with a character takes time to build. I think a talented filmmaker, actor, script, lighting, editing, etc. can establish that pretty quick. But porn budgets don't allow that. It's just not feasible. I think this is one of the roadblocks about reaching a female audience. It takes more than visual acts to get them worked up. And I am speaking as someone who will watch a lot of m/m bondage porn, but simply because the male "victims" are always hot, have great bodies, and the focus is on the struggling and desperation and it's single-minded and just simple - but they still focus a lot on the right things. It's a poor substitute though for mainstream movie/tv budgets with actors I find hot getting into helpless situations.

Sorry for the rambling. I would really love to know if other women agree. I have been thinking about this a lot since the other thread, and tried to figure out what doesn't work about porn specifically.

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 7/27/2014 10:07:07 AM >

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 10:16:42 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Another side note/observation. I think the desire to engage in a fantasy act (visually) with a "character" isn't instantaneous for women (would love to hear other's thoughts). I think women need to have a relationship or attraction to a character before she can really enjoy and project to enjoy porn. I think women for the most part don't see men and instantly want to submit to him or dominate him. It might be instant chemistry, but then his actions and demeanor need to back it (chemistry).

I agree with you. However, in my case, I have certain scenes in my head that involve a faceless man because the man, himself, isn't the focus of the imagery. So in a movie scene, I don't think I would always need an attachment to the man on the screen. I would need an attachment to the scene itself and what the woman is portrayed to feel. If I can identify with the tension, or the eroticism, or with what the woman might be feeling, the man in the scene becomes...well...a prop. (Is that awful?)

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 11:16:13 AM

eliseobeys

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I am the same way in that Kaliko.

I hate being coddled or served as if Im the top and he the bottom.

Its completely unappealing from my perspective.

Having the mans face be unseen to me invokes a lot of symbolism. Its shows the double standard of the female being vulnerable and exposed whilst the man is anonymous and or clothed etc.

It also leaves the face of the dominant open to the potential male viewers to see their own face there and or the women to see the man they envision.

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/27/2014 6:57:50 PM

shiftyw

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I hate plotlines.
I would skip it and cut right to the spanking, were I watching it.
When will there be links??

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/29/2014 6:22:30 AM

catize

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Why can't the spanking be a part of the pampering?

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/30/2014 4:26:31 AM

BecomingV

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DarkSteven - Congratulations to you both! :)

Having seen some pictures of both you and your sub, I can tell you that you two already "look the part." Photographs DO capture the energy you each exude. There's a reason why you were asked to do this. While some people may be great spankers/spankees, only some people can "show it." Your pictures send out "energy." I think of you two as "naturals." So, my first advice is to say, "Don't try... just do your thing and enjoy."

As for appealing to women... use your words. When I watch M/f spanking porn, it bores me to tears. However, take the exact same video and give me a description and my interest may be piqued. The scenario may be hot to some women and repulsive to another, but I think women have a heightened sense of "context is everything," when it comes to spanking. For me, when the scenario fits my fantasies, it's hot. You can't please everyone, so again I suggest, just do your thing and enjoy!

Akasha made some good points. If you look at the raging popularity of the show, "Scandal," you can see what appeals to women. The character development allowed in a series is often lacking in a single film. That show is all about the power. It's cutting-edge in terms of the depiction of sexuality and I think it "gets away" with pushing the envelope because the sexuality IS communication. What they do and how they do it and where and when they do it... it's one character making themselves completely clear to the other character.

If you are unfamiliar with the show... here's what they do. Eye contact, often prolonged. They take possession of each other across a room. It's different from staring because when Fitz looks at Liv, her eyes, her body... respond.

You ask about appeal, which is basically a sales question.
AIDA is a foundation of all sales:

Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

Claiming your spankee with your eyes will get attention.
Your sub's response gives the female audience a character to identify with (and live vicariously)- piques interest.
Desire - This is where your words create emotion in your sub (and therefore, in the audience)
Action - Hell, you've got that part down "PAT" (LOL, pun intended)

Also, you said there will be more than one video, so if you take a long view, you have a chance at tapping into the character development nature of a series. There is no reason why a spanking film can't end with a cliffhanger.

The women I know prefer "real people porn" as opposed to actors. If you are okay with being "real" in front of a camera, that will likely increase the appeal. It's just my opinion, but I think if someone is a natural, "trying to act" ruins it. So, respect that you two have something unique and special and just... enjoy while sharing with others through the camera.

This may mean that you use the filming to fulfill a promise to spank for (fill in the blank/ reason).

Also, if you want to create desire in an audience, use the present tense when speaking in the film.

LOL, that's all I've got! Except, I'd watch it!

Best of luck to you both!

< Message edited by BecomingV -- 7/30/2014 4:40:13 AM >

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/30/2014 11:04:57 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Another side note/observation. I think the desire to engage in a fantasy act (visually) with a "character" isn't instantaneous for women (would love to hear other's thoughts). I think women need to have a relationship or attraction to a character before she can really enjoy and project to enjoy porn. I think women for the most part don't see men and instantly want to submit to him or dominate him. It might be instant chemistry, but then his actions and demeanor need to back it (chemistry).

I agree with you. However, in my case, I have certain scenes in my head that involve a faceless man because the man, himself, isn't the focus of the imagery. So in a movie scene, I don't think I would always need an attachment to the man on the screen. I would need an attachment to the scene itself and what the woman is portrayed to feel. If I can identify with the tension, or the eroticism, or with what the woman might be feeling, the man in the scene becomes...well...a prop. (Is that awful?)

No and in fact a greater portion of porn has men faceless. I am thinking for an ever-increasing viewership...the beauty in almost all cases...are the women. But DS is giving me some ideas

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 7/30/2014 11:06:28 AM >

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RE: All right, I'll come clean. - 7/31/2014 12:10:00 AM

orgasmdenial12

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The only porn I ever watch is anal - preferably a combination of tight asses and big cocks. Unless it involves that, I have no interest. Sorry, but that's the truth!

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