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RE: Be Careful What You Wish For... - 7/30/2014 2:50:06 PM   
MercTech


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Sheesh... CO2 in no way heats the atmosphere. Higher CO2 levels reduce the heat radiated back out to space. Like putting a heavy blanket on yourself while sleeping. You don't generate more heat but the heat loss is reduced thus raising the average temperature.

For a given amount of fuel, the more and better the insulation, the higher the temperature you maintain.

I know, over simplified, but that is the basic concept of what happens when you increase the CO2 loading in the atmosphere.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Be Careful What You Wish For... - 7/30/2014 3:05:37 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
According to your source Venus should not be hot. Too bad it is.

Could it be that Venus is a tad warmer because it's almost 26 million (25,724,740) miles closer to the sun?



OK, say we all stipulate that is the cause. You now have to explain how there is ice on Mercury (perhaps another 26 million miles closer to the sun) and temperatures of -170, to our satisfaction. You may use atmosphere in your explanation, if you wish.



Ok....

Curiosity may not have found organic matter -- YET -- on Mars. But NASA has made, this afternoon, another big announcement: ice. Yes! Water ice. On Mercury.

The newly observed ice is located in the shadowed region of Mercury's north pole, and is thought to be, the AP reports, somewhere between 1.5 feet and 65 feet deep. The discovery, made by the orbiting probe Messenger, confirms "decades of suspicion" -- based on radar measurements -- about the presence of ice on the planet.

But wait. If you recall the order of the planets -- the fact that My Very Excellent Mother Just Sent Us Nine Pies, except that now she has rescinded the pies -- you might be thinking, "That's weird. Mercury is the closest planet to the sun." Which means, basically, that NASA has discovered that the planet that receives more sunlight per square meter than any other in the solar system -- the planet that bears the brunt of the sun's energy more directly than any other -- houses ice. Which is ... counterintuitive.

But the cold-ice-on-hot-planet phenomenon isn't as strange as our solar system diagrams might have us believe: Proximity to the sun doesn't fully determine planetary heat. Venus, second rock from the sun, is actually the one that takes "hottest planet" honors. And that's because Venus also has an atmosphere -- something Mercury lacks. And an atmosphere, Universe Today explains -- particularly one, like Venus's, that is enriched with lots of carbon dioxide -- acts like a planetary blanket, trapping heat under its mantle.

Which isn't to say that Mercury isn't also hot. Temperatures on the planet can reach a balmy 800 degrees Fahrenheit (427 degrees Celsius). But another thing that Mercury isn't is monolithic. Like Earth, its temperatures vary considerably according to, among other things, their orientation to the sun. And while the side of the planet that faces the sun can be sweltering, the side that faces away from it can drop to as low as 100 Kelvin, or -173 degrees Celsius. And the poles of the planet are permanently shielded from the sun's heat.

Ergo: ice. Lots of it, apparently. Evidence of large swaths of the substance is visible from a latitude of 85 degrees north up to Mercury's north pole, with smaller deposits scattered as far away as 65 degrees north. And there's a chance there's more where that came from. So NASA, Messenger instrument scientist Gregory Neumann said today, will direct Messenger's observation toward that area in the coming months -- when, that is, the angle of the sun allows. There's a further good chance that there's ice on the south pole of the planet, too. For now, though, Neumann put it, "there is an ongoing campaign, when the spacecraft permits, to look further northward."

[ETA] Source: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/how-can-there-be-water-ice-on-mercury-which-is-right-next-to-the-sun/265741/


Does that help, Ron??


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/30/2014 3:06:26 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Be Careful What You Wish For... - 7/30/2014 4:45:51 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
According to your source Venus should not be hot. Too bad it is.

Could it be that Venus is a tad warmer because it's almost 26 million (25,724,740) miles closer to the sun?

Nope. Venus is much warmer than it would be based solely on distance to the sun. We're 93 million miles away so Venus is roughly 67 million (on average obviously) so it receives roughly twice the solar radiance as Earth (radiance decreases by the square of the distance) So Venus should be only twice as hot as Earth. But it is around 2.5 times hotter (737K compared to 288K) So something is significantly affecting the climate of Venus.
http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/solar-radiation-in-space

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/30/2014 4:50:33 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Be Careful What You Wish For... - 7/30/2014 4:48:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

According to your source Venus should not be hot.

The statement we proved cannot be interpreted as “CO2 has no impact on the dynamics of the Earth-atmosphere system” . What we have proven is that the CO2 cannot heat the atmosphere in the bulk...

Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit.

K.


Actually what he proved was a tautology. If a volume of gas is in thermal equilibrium it obviously can't change temperature (if it does it's no longer in TE). It's yet another one of the many bullshits he tried to put over.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 44
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