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Thoughts on Credentials - 7/10/2006 9:45:52 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I don't know if you are interested in why there is a negative attitude about professional domination among the FreeDommes (I've stolen the term *Solitary from the Wiccan religion to describe myself), but I would like to share my experiences and thoughts. I promise this will not be a "bashing" letter.

 
(This paragraph does not apply to the Pros-just an intro)

It began when I started to interact with other Dommes. The new ones would learn a little bit by reading or attending a dungeon party and immediately thought "hey, I can make some money with this." No regard for the submissive.. other than what she can get. OR you get the woman who finds her "domme-side" and sees worshiping men.. and thinks.. "hey, I'll find a hubby this way". More times than not, the "domme-side" disappears once she gets her man. Or times being rough, she will price out what little talents she has and call herself "pro" because she is getting paid.
 
(end of intro paragraph)

Now.. on the upside I do admire the Pros out there that have at least a physiological degree of some sort. You know where the sub is coming from. You DO provide a service in this context. I'm sure if you saw something that the man needs to see a doctor for you would direct him.

It's a shame there is no program where a woman can go to that would instruct her in it all that includes a Psychology/medical course. If there is.. I applaud it and would want to know about it.

Why do I say this?

My slave came to me after 6 years of Pros. He didn't know there were women who enjoyed doing this that were NOT Pros. All he knew is.. you pay a woman who says she is a pro and you get your fix as he put it "when he's feeling submissive." He told me of the sessions and I was rather shocked. There was nothing outstanding. These were the ones who advertised in the DDI or the street tabloids .. not the "housewives-with-coathangers" (feel free to use that at will).

One session left him with nerve damage to the penis causing an inability to maintain an erection. (what was it? having him masturbate to climax while wearing a cock strap). No after care.. no counseling on how to take care of it. It eventually came back, but the psychological injury was what caused him the erectile difficulty.

This Solitary fixed the problem.. and I offer it to you. Slather Ambasol on your sub's cock when he thinks you are just lubricating it. It numbs it, but being you don't tell him what you did the suprise and anxiety of it all makes him hard. Being he can't feel himself.. he doesn't have the performance anxiety. He couldn't feel it starting to go down, even if it did. (You remove it by washing it off with dishwashing soap to cut the oily base and the numbness goes away immediately and he's back to normal.)

Realizing it was his mind and the fear that another Domme would "break" it.. and NOT a physical problem. His dysfunction was solved.

Another case in point is a Domme (well known in her state) that was upset with me for calling it "paid entertainment." She evangelized how good she was (of course this was in a chat room) and how Ignorant I was .. how they are not prostitutes (agreed) and how respected she was in her community. Two weeks later she was arrested for adding anal intercourse to the end of her session for the client (in this case an undercover cop) if they came up with an extra $300.

Another acquaintance of mine (a pro) was very proud about her web page. I looked it up.. There is was right in the middle of the advertisements for call girls and escorts. Even though it was categorized as BDSM.. we are known by the company we keep.

So what is one to think.. EVERY time a guy hears I'm a Domme.. the next question is "How much do you charge?" and I get insulted. Because you KNOW what they are thinking. (callgirl..prostitute..money exhchange..dominatrix.. same thing) GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

(Hang in here with me Pros.. I'm offering a solution..)

Is there ANYWAY you all can somehow validate yourselves by a curriculum of some sort? A nationwide (meeting of the minds) as to what a Dominatrix is.. why she is, why she SHOULD be practicing in a professional sense of the word. Give them sound base of medical and physiological knowledge as well as the techniques and then they can specialize from there? Just something I've thought about. If there are sex surrogats that have been legitimized.. why not the Dominatrixes?

It's kind of a MD vs DO vs Chiropractors vs Naturopaths vs Homeopaths. Who is real and effective and how does the consumer know the practitioner knows what they are doing. Even astrologers have a certification program with an Astrological Association in America that they can go through before they begin charging.

Ah well... just wanted to share my thoughts. As usual, take it for what you can get from it- if anything.

Lotus

*This refers to a practitioner of the craft that does not belong to coven but works "solitary" on her own. (corrections welcome if I misinterpreted the term)


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 3:08:03 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi Lotus

I think its a shame that no one picked up on this thread, as I agree with a lot of what you are saying here - the only point I'd make is that all of us would benefit from such an education, whether we charge or not.

I went to an event recently, where there was a domme trained in medicine with her sub male. They gave a demonstration on the dangers of BDSM activities - the way to do things the right way so that there is no lasting damage to nerves, ligaments etc. Apparently they do it at a lot of venues and it was interesting as well as valuable, as not many of us know the inner workings of the body. Mind you, it was also a bit scary and made me think better of not doing anything for a while as it seemed so easy to injure someone!

I'd like to think that none of us would like to harm, even if we occasionally hurt so I'm with you on this. The next question would be how to put together a suitable manual or course to achieve the intent - and in this I think the difficulty would come; how many doctors and professors would be willing to put their names to it or assess any qualification?

E


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 3:26:04 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I thought about what I could say in reponse here and all I can say I came up with "nuthin". 

This Lifestyle has so many variations and every blessed one of them is supposed to be right and damn ya all if you say otherwise.  It's be a rare Domme that would attempt to standardize the Domme Applications. My god they would have to work together!!! 

However, we have a program out here that will charge people $250 for a weekend to learn all about what it is to be a submissive and they do incorporate talks to dominant folk. 


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 3:30:13 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think it would be a fabulous idea. If all the overlarge egos of the "experts" could deflate enough to admit that everyone can and could learn something and not argue about it.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/27/2006 3:36:18 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 3:39:26 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Thank you both for adding to this thread :)  I was wondering if I had offended everyone or what :)

I did try to help new Dommes learn from the established ones with a group I started. I know first hand of trying to get everyone to contribute and share.  Again, it was like the blind men and the elephant senario.

There was a case of one who thought squirting tobasco sauce down the male sub's urethra was really neat, and couldn't be told otherwise.   He LIVED didn't he??!







_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 3:52:28 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Holy shit! If he lived I wonder if his penis had spontaneous combustion!
I love this topic actually, not the combusting penis.... but education. I am a hands on beginner. I have not been in a big hurry to dive right in for a multitude of reasons. Primarily because I want it to be part of a relationship not just about the play, but also because I see such huge potential to do some real damage and not just physical. I have learned alot about the psychology of BDSM which was very important to me but know very little about much of the physical stuff. I have heard, go to munches, meet people. Welllllllll, I have several issues with that. Primarily, distance, but also I am seeing ALOT of the same bullshit that causes me to avoid many other group gatherings. Who is cool, who knows more, just all the nastiness that annoys the hell out of me. I don't like petty childish behaviour in adults and as in suburbia it seems to abound. I don't want to get involved in cliqueish crap like that.
So I have proceeded at a snails pace, hoping that if some sweet sub/slave comes along that is not terrified of my inexperience they will have the patience and fortitude to take the slow and careful route so that they don't get hurt and I don't freak out at the possibility I might be screwing something serious up.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 4:15:50 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Not a personal criticism, but having seen what happens when other things become regulated, and the power hungry take over running it for everyone else, I have to call it (not the OP, the idea of credentialling)  the worst idea ever.

Look at what has happened in the case of massage therapists licensing boards... headed up by people who are themselves, for profit massage therapists, and who then pass rules affecting their competitors.
(In Florida, at one time, the head of the board was simultaneuously denouncing energy healers as fakes, but also insisting that they fell under the purview of her office because they 'manipulated' tissue with their energy).

I was a little active in lobbying against licensing initiatives for martial arts in a few states...one up north, where the guy lobbying for it was as bogus as the day is long, but he had some politicians ready to put him in charge of saying whether or not other martial arts styles that he couldn't even pronounce, much less judge, were 'legitimate'.

And finally look at the history of already regulated disciplines, such as law, education, medicine, etc. 
Has credentialling kept the bad apples out?  Or has it created another layer of bureaucracy to shield them?

And we want this to happen to our lifestyle?


Errrrmm.....No thank you.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/27/2006 4:39:49 PM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 4:21:39 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I think my sucess was that I  was blessed with a slave with  more experience than I.

BTW... I told him about the snowballing idea.  The little rascal is so excited he's trying it out on his own first!

This is what I mean- he'll have the confidence to share with me when we do try it.  We discuss everyting that is new before we try it.  He was thinking a cock ring would enhanse the experience.. I told him no.. because his balls will be going up and the ring will be holding them down.. he needed to make up his mind which way he wanted them to go! LOL  I don't want him "snapping" anything.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 4:23:10 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I've always prefered to work with professionals no matter what. Regarding BDSM, I'm lucky I that one of my friends is a Pro Domme and has offered to mentor me in BDSM areas if I go down that path.. generally speeking it is good to ask about credentials when you can.. A new medico, I do  professional background check before I make an appointment to see how he is viewed by other professionals. I do the same with Accountants and Legal folk.. Never actually checked the credentials of the skipper of a 747 yet though.... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 4:28:56 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I knew a sub that went to an established pro in the midwest. I even helped him pick her out.  I spoke with her on the phone. I did my homework.  His second and last time he went, he took her a bottle of wine as a gift.  She felt he was a tad nervous, so she broke it open and they downed it. 

Then while they were watching TV afterward, she decided to point out all the city officials she sessioned that came up on the news.   Yup.. confidentiality.  Even with Pros.. not all of them are created equal.  It's a crap shoot at best.  

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 5:52:42 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Then while they were watching TV afterward, she decided to point out all the city officials she sessioned that came up on the news.   Yup.. confidentiality.  Even with Pros.. not all of them are created equal.  It's a crap shoot at best.   "

I'm not saying this is right, but sharing another's secret with one who has the same secret is not viewed as unethical by all. Before divulging my antics to a few close friends I drilled them on that, but to no avail. One day at a party a person I had not told asked about it. Thing is, telling anyone is like typing FORMAT C: . It is like jumping off a bridge.

I don't mind admitting I have done some illegal things in my life. Sharing anything can be disastrous. But the chastity belt thing, well not everyone at the party knew about it. Crash is how known as Looselips. Now Quash has revealed some fetishes to me, do you think I am going to tell Looslips ? NO, and I am not telling Looselips anything ever again, but again, it cannot be undone. I am not telling Quash's fetishes to anyone, period.

They might not see it as unethical, but this is where the sub who found out things watching the news with a pro-Domme should've taken action. Personally I would have wrecked her business by contacting everyone she pointed out. What if the sub had been an undercover cop ? Actually being a switch I might have done it another way, a Domme is not going to like to sub, and I would feel the need to make sure she is not a switch. That means at the end of every (free) session I would then Dom her. I would probably have to hope she is not a switch, and let the punishment fit the crime. Take pictures and get them off the property as quickly as possible.

But that's me.

It would not be  good idea to have a licensing system for Dommes, but some sort of certification might be nice. Somewhere along the line I'm sure there is at least one doctor who is in the scene, and I know of a nurse on another forum. She could possibly give instruction on quite a few things, catheterization for one. Paramedics and even some orderlies could participate. Somewhere along the line a lawyer should give advice, I know one of them too who is in the scene.

The lawyer could give advice on the legal aspects, such as telling the one Domme who got busted for the anal sex, do not charge for it ! If necessary, raise your rates and the buggering comes if it comes. So it was a freebie, but then how much was the fine ?

Doctors, nurses and orderlies could give advice on safety, like when the sub might be unable to use the safeword. Watching for certain physiological signs that the sub is in trouble. This in additon to the proper use of the Foleys and Bards also.

Certification might not be a bad idea, but in no way do we want the government involved, they screw everything up. But then who is to certify Dommes, or Doms ? I would say find an MD and a lawyer. This does not do all that much for us, except that if a sub got hurt in a session the Dom(me) could not plead ignorance. At least it is something.

T

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 5:59:23 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Interesting thought about licencing Pro Dominants.. Here in Queensland, Pro Dominants are registered with the ATO (Aussie Tax Office) and with the Police as Sex Workers and are under the regulations pertaining to the Sex Industry..

The folk I see complaining locally  are the amateurs.. Mind you I also see Hookers and call Girls complaining about the house wives who do a spot of amateur hooking on the side.. My take on them is that they should register and make their money legally hooking and pay tax.. The silly bitches are setting them selves up to be murdered... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/27/2006 6:03:56 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not saying this is right, but sharing another's secret with one who has the same secret is not viewed as unethical by all.


If the people whose secrets are being told, did not know about and agree to that, then it doesn't matter with whom the secrets were shared, it is the lack of consent that makes it unethical.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/28/2006 2:41:11 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Back to the thought of whowould establish said credentials.. It'd have to be like a board of one's peers, I think    Then one would have to ask.. how would you  determine such a board?  I think it's impossible.  It's back to "ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances".

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/28/2006 2:47:25 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Certification.   Is this like my professional certification whre you have to have 10 years experience, a ton of education, and pass a certification test?   I have always questioned how you get the experience to get certified if you can't practice without certification.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/28/2006 2:52:26 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		OUCH. permenant damage ?

in that case...im not in the right group--- not for any rt meeting ever.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/29/2006 7:12:31 AM   
WhiteRadiance


Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Lotus this is a great topic and you should post it under general Discussion.
 

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/29/2006 7:38:31 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Alumbrado:  Fortunately the possibility of a "credential" or similar regulation for Dominants (pro or otherwise) is so unlikely to be created in our current legal system that it is virtually impossible.   Some countries, more enlightened about sex generally (Australia and The Netherlands come to mind) do regulate proDommes along with prostitutes (NO, I know they aren't the same, but to the "Sex Workers Board" they are).  But this "regulation" is, as I understand it, geared towards health and taxation...NOT proficiency.  No one in Queensland checks the pros to see if they are good at their job!  (BUT if that career path opens up, I'm there!)

Besides our historic societal fear of anything dealing with sex (and therefore either outlawing it or ignoring it) there is no real impetus to regulate proDommes.  Further, regulation takes a consensus of what needs to be regulated, and that consensus is virtually impossible to reach -- just look at the dissent on the CM boards, and in the D/s communities...and imagine trying to craft a set of regulations and codes!

I agree with you generally about the dangers of overregulation, although in fact we do a fairly decent job regulating certain professions (doctors, lawyers, etc.), regulating financial markets (yes, bad apples will get thru, but by and large they are pretty fair and transparent) and a superb job regulating other hazards (airframes, nuclear power).  Also, when you get down to it, and money is involved, we do a great job of regulating casinos.  This perspective comes from years working in the field of regulatory law.

Lotus:  The proDomme who tells a customer about all the prominent politicians she services might just be lying, too, you know.

Nice thread.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/29/2006 3:19:17 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Emperor
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Alumbrado:  Fortunately the possibility of a "credential" or similar regulation for Dominants (pro or otherwise) is so unlikely to be created in our current legal system that it is virtually impossible.   Some countries, more enlightened about sex generally (Australia and The Netherlands come to mind) do regulate proDommes along with prostitutes (NO, I know they aren't the same, but to the "Sex Workers Board" they are).  But this "regulation" is, as I understand it, geared towards health and taxation...NOT proficiency.  No one in Queensland checks the pros to see if they are good at their job!  (BUT if that career path opens up, I'm there!)



E.


Are you sure about this Emperor? By this i mean are you in contact with any of the Pro Domminants here in Qld? It is something I'll try and track down together with more information and post it here when I find out more as a matter of interest than anything else. Thank you for making this point.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Thoughts on Credentials - 7/29/2006 7:04:51 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

IronBear said:  Are you sure about this Emperor? By this i mean are you in contact with any of the Pro Domminants here in Qld? It is something I'll try and track down together with more information and post it here when I find out more as a matter of interest than anything else. Thank you for making this point.


Actually I was referring to ALL sex professionals (not only proDommes) when I said "no one in Queensland checks the pros to see if they are good at their job".  And I chose QL at random, I could have said Sydney, or for that matter Rotterdam or Maastricht; my point was that when states that allow legal sex work regulate the sex workers, they check for health and taxes NOT for proficiency.  There is no doubt in my mind that this is the case, and I will be astounded if you learn that in fact proDommes in QL (or anywhere else) are tested on competency.  On the otherhand, IronBear, as you are "on the spot" so to speak, I would love a first hand report.  Thank you.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 20
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