Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/10/2006 11:11:44 PM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
     During the last few years I've noticed that white Americans tend to be more factionalized in regards to subculture variety than most minority groups that are present in the New England area. I have taken into consideration that I may be viewing the social interactions of minorities through an alien lens, but it seems as if an extremely high percentage of black and hispanic Americans tend to adopt  speech patterns, styles of dress, musical tastes, and political biases that are similar, if not identical to the rest of their group, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find ten white Americans from a random selection whose tastes fit quite as closely as those of minorities.
  I've taken into account the possibility that there may be less variation in subcultural variety because minority groups are smaller, but I don't think this is a likely verdict.  This may also be due to socio-economic differences, seeing how individuals from less privileged situations may adopt a similar manner of dress, speech, and musical taste in order to create a sense of community.
   I think that diversity is a WONDERFUL thing, but, strangely enough, I haven't observed an abundance of it in many minority neighborhoods.  Is this because of a heightened sense of community within the culture of minority groups, or because white Americans are just prone to create their own subdivisions?  (Punks, Goths, Swingers, Rednecks, Yuppies, etc.)

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 7/10/2006 11:12:57 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/10/2006 11:18:54 PM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
Oh yeah.........my own personal guess is that there is MUCH LESS COMMUNITY IN WHITE AMERICA!!!  I would like to hear other's opinions, as long as everyone keeps it friendly. 

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 7/10/2006 11:24:36 PM >

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/10/2006 11:32:39 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
I wonder why we keep reifying peoples and communities.  There's no such thing as "white America."  There are approximately 200 million white Americans, and each one is an individual.  I'm not a big lumper.  Too many particulars are ambushed behind grand generalizations, to paraphrase Aldous Huxley.

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/10/2006 11:40:53 PM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
Yes.............I'm fully aware that each and every white American is an idividual, but you can, through comparing and contrasting manners of speech, dress, cultural traditions, etc.-abstract certain qualities that are similar within GROUPS of white Americans..  I know that alot of people tend to deny up-and-down that those similarities and differences exist, but I'm trying to be realistic.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 2:12:37 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
LaM, I am surprised you haven't rung in to "Are WE racists ?" thusfar.

TreSwank, now you're keeping me up. I am a type of racist, or racialist the likes of which you will seldom meet.

The first mistake most people make it to base anything on skin color. You simply can't. Dark skin is only an indication of a certain lineage, not the background, or specific ancestry of the person.

I am not better than anyone else, but my heritage is dear to me, I am Polack. Now to start with, that means that I am different than an Irishman, an Italian or who knows. The differences are subtle, I mean preferences in music, cars, Women and a whole host of other things. The trends are there but they are not etched in stone.

Because Euro-Americans make up most of the White population of this country, and many of them kept their heritage alive, at least in past generations, we have alot more diversity then others. Unfortunately Blacks being brought here by force have lost the ability to trace their geneology the way Whites can. Some can do it, but look at Roots. The guy traced his lineage back until they were taming Kunta Kinte. That happened here.

No mention of 'Toby's' former land, country or tribe. My family can be traced back to Jaslow, Poland, which means if I were there I would be considered their version of a hillbilly. Kunta Kinte had no such luxury.

Now there are many factors here. Let's say you're Irish. We are likely to have different views and tastes. Simple fact. White people have also lived usually in larger accomodations than many minorities.

Now Black people having experienced living in close quarters over the generatrions have some things in common. They feel like an underdog and this brings some degree of solidarity. Even those who, if they had not been taken by the slavers, would be enemies in 'the old country'. They have a common purpose. Even if they don't show it, there is an underlying connection.

It is the same with Hispanics, Arabs and Orientals and whoever. When people find people like them they like them. Then they go on to be friends and tend to listen to the same music, have discussions and arguments and finally agree on a few things. That is life.

Take the situation with Black people, some are skinny, wear wire rimmed glasses and do cancer research, others are 300lbs. and play football. Same with any race.

What I think happened is that through living in close quarters and being more close knit to peers, minorities' tastes and preferences have become less diverse within the group. While probably true, your statement indicates that your observations were made in one geographical area. Therefore I would say your statement is a bit overgeneralized.

I see what you see, yes. That people's tastes and preferences seem to have been aggragated to their group, and that the White race does not seem to do that. But when you say White, you are talking about one hell of a diverse people.

I think the perception of being an underdog and other factors give minorities more of a sense of solidarity, and what you said it just an outgrowth of that. On the other hand, White people run the gamut from Scandinavian to Spanish. From French to Jewish. That is a pretty big spread. Different peoples seperated for generations, it's no wonder we don't all think alike, act alike or have the same preferences.

That's my $20 worth (writing this is probably going to make me an hour late for work tomorrow).

LaM, I want to hear from you on this. Not only on my choice of words, and not being incorrect in some way, but the content. Our differences should not be ignored. These societal factors are extant, even though the OP may have overstated them.

T

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 6:38:46 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
my thoughts these days are that people are not so much hung on on color anymore but  are more concerned with the different cultures.  What exactly IS a culture these days?  Seems like every individual hs their own culture unto themselves.

Lotus

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 6:43:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Well, it may be that we are more easily sunburnt than others. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 6:45:54 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
Spike Lee has made a goodly portion of his career out of showing the differences within the black community...

I would guess that the outside perspective makes a difference, I have learned over the years that the Asian community is as fragmented as you can get, and yet many non-Asians don't see the differences as significant.

And Hollywood made the mistake many years ago of assuming that all Spanish speakers were an interchangeable audience, and released a series of popular films re-shot with Hispanic actors in Spanish...when the Mexicans saw a Venezualan trying to play machismo, they fell out of their seats laughing.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 7:04:01 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Swank, I got out of New England two years ago for sunny Myrtle Beach,SC to get away from the severe winters and high housing prices up there.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 7:46:33 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
When one is close to a wall, the cracks are evident.  Further away it looks like a monolith.  You just need to spend some time with minorities.  For example, down here, there is a tremendous prejudice against black immigrants from the native blacks and by the dark blacks against the light ones (and vice versa).  The Cuban Americans don't like the Mexicans and Central Americans and there's a gulf in their community between the early arrivers and the Marial Boatlift folks with the recent arrivals divided between the camps


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 7:48:15 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
Why are you surprised?  It was too long to read carefully by the time I got there, and the squabbling didn't seem to warrant much of a comment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

LaM, I am surprised you haven't rung in to "Are WE racists ?" thusfar.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 7:52:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I would like to point out to those assembled, that those are two AFRICAN elephants fucking....

Think about it, you got time......

LOL

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 8:11:01 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
Umm there is quite a bit of diversity within the black community and quite a bit of divergence in speech patterns, etc.  I don't want to sound insulting but if the majority of your exposure to cultures is from the television and their stereotypes then of course the black community would seem homogenous.

C~

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

    During the last few years I've noticed that white Americans tend to be more factionalized in regards to subculture variety than most minority groups that are present in the New England area. I have taken into consideration that I may be viewing the social interactions of minorities through an alien lens, but it seems as if an extremely high percentage of black and hispanic Americans tend to adopt  speech patterns, styles of dress, musical tastes, and political biases that are similar, if not identical to the rest of their group, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find ten white Americans from a random selection whose tastes fit quite as closely as those of minorities.
I've taken into account the possibility that there may be less variation in subcultural variety because minority groups are smaller, but I don't think this is a likely verdict.  This may also be due to socio-economic differences, seeing how individuals from less privileged situations may adopt a similar manner of dress, speech, and musical taste in order to create a sense of community.
  I think that diversity is a WONDERFUL thing, but, strangely enough, I haven't observed an abundance of it in many minority neighborhoods.  Is this because of a heightened sense of community within the culture of minority groups, or because white Americans are just prone to create their own subdivisions?  (Punks, Goths, Swingers, Rednecks, Yuppies, etc.)


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 8:35:45 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
Here's a musing I heard:

"I can't wait until we are all homogonized into one color so we can hate someone based soley on the content of  their character",

Lotus


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 8:39:04 AM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Umm there is quite a bit of diversity within the black community and quite a bit of divergence in speech patterns, etc.  I don't want to sound insulting but if the majority of your exposure to cultures is from the television and their stereotypes then of course the black community would seem homogenous.



  Although I will admit that most of my knowledge of minority culture has come from having to live in neighborhoods where the rent isn't quite so high as the rest of CT, I don't think my original statement was based on a biased view, skewed by television (I'm not a big fan of BET anyway) or my exposure to mostly minorities of low socio-economic status. 

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 8:43:38 AM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Umm there is quite a bit of diversity within the black community and quite a bit of divergence in speech patterns, etc.  I don't want to sound insulting but if the majority of your exposure to cultures is from the television and their stereotypes then of course the black community would seem homogenous.



Although I will admit that most of my knowledge of minority culture has come from having to live in neighborhoods where the rent isn't quite so high as the rest of CT, I don't think my original statement was based on a biased view, skewed by television (I'm not a big fan of BET anyway) or my exposure to mostly minorities of low socio-economic status.  By the way.......I don't really know why the hell this quote box is covering everything !

]

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 7/11/2006 8:44:18 AM >

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 10:31:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I think that when we look from the outside at another culture we do not see subtle differences in another ethnicity's subcultures. I think the opposite is true, White people are often more homogenous than Hispanics or Blacks especially.. because the term Hispanic covers so many nationalities and regions of the Southern hemisphere and just south of our border. Black people also have a rich and varied history in the West and in the East with just as many different dialects and oral histories. In fact there are some Hispanics descended from Africa living in the USA, not to mention Africans that became Americans in the not too distant past. It also breaks down in religious ways of difference too, such as Black Islam or Black Christianity in this country. It is very diverse and I think you just do not see it because your interactions with other people maybe limited.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 10:53:59 AM   
TreSwank


Posts: 1165
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
Good point, juliaoceania.

To add an example that would further my own argument-
About two months ago, while I was living in an apartment in a predominantly poor hispanic and black neighborhood in New London, I decided to dye my hair bright red.  With most white folks, this would NOT raise an eyebrow, considering that I believe whites are much more accustomed to subcultural variety, but, in the area that I was living at the time, only the downright BRAVEST blacks and hispanics would do something that would target themselves out for ridicule by other members of their community.  I noticed that the standards for what is considered masculine is MUCH more stringent in both the hispanic and black communities, and any deviation from those standards are less tolerated than among MOST Caucasian groups.

   I've also noticed, through my foreign travel during a stint in the Navy that this does not necessarily apply in quite a few foreign countries.  For example, alot of men in Spain (Rota, in particular), tend to adopt a style of dress and mannerisms that could be interpreted as foppish or "gay" by American hispanic groups.  Perhaps this kind of social uniformity is unique to minority groups in the US.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 7/11/2006 11:02:50 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 12:35:20 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
There are probably endless reasons. I agree with some posters that the more subtle differences can escape notice of an outsider to the culture.

One thought I have is more economic. As it often appears that a visible minority member can begin to take on the trappings of average white when they begin to make enough money to do so. ( not including star type wealth ) The majority of the powerful sales industry targets the biggest audience with their toys and images/lifestyles to be bought. So as you reach levels of wealth you can buy/live more different lifestyles. Economic divisions are evident all along the way in various cultures.

Also, the average white is a blend of many different old world cultures. As it was obviously common for whites to intermarry etc, while people of different colour remained more isolated in that way. So the majority became more homogenous and more free to take any lifestyle from that blank slate.

In a way, the ultra rich create a narrow culture for themselves. Making every effort to show they belong in it, and others don't. Sort of gilded ghettoes of sameness, with a culture of only wealth. So you can be caught in a narrow culture of lower income, make it to the relative social freedom of middle income, and aspire to some day reach the narrowest culture of ultra rich.

(in reply to TreSwank)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? - 7/11/2006 1:33:14 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
Also take the fact that the culture in power often takes traits and adapts parts of other cultural dress and way of speaking. So basically a lot of what is considered "white culture" is a bastardization of another culture's traits and cultural art forms... take rock and roll for example when Elvis first hit it big.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Why Are White Americans Overly-Factionalized? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.074