quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Don't know about today but in the 70's I served with a guy who told us how reasonable European cops were. A fellow serviceman was in Germany, cop walked up to him and said something. The serviceman said "What?" and woke up in the hospital. And he was just standing in the wrong place.
Oh yes, the cops were ruled to just be doing their duty.

I've had Germans tell me that 'you can't talk to German cops like you can British cops'. Different culture. I would expect it to vary a lot from one European country to another. I hear that Dutch cops are more amenable, whereas French cops aren't. Here in Britain, I'd expect the cop to rebuke the kid and if the kid were to take no notice, for him to get arrested. Physical fights between cops and citizens are rare in such minor public order events as this would normally be.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
And if the "kid" attacked the cop when arrested?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
And if the "kid" attacked the cop when arrested?

I tend call them 'kids' at age eighteen, even if they're very big and very black. YMMV.

They have truncheons for that sort of thing and stab-resistant vests. A lone cop might leave him alone but call in support - though I don't think cops generally patrol alone.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And if the "kid" attacked the cop when arrested?

I tend call them 'kids' at age eighteen, even if they're very big and very black. YMMV.

They have truncheons for that sort of thing and stab-resistant vests. A lone cop might leave him alone but call in support - though I don't think cops generally patrol alone.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That would be far afield from what has happened here.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

All killings of a human being a homicides and all must be adjudicated to determine if they were lawful. maybe you really are dense. I explained that to you in the above posts. I bolded it for you.

===============================================

Ken you stated that all homicides are criminal acts.
Clearly not true.
Justifiable homicide is not a crime, any more than not having stolen something is. Self defense is the most basic human right, the fact is that justifiable homicide means it was legal. It is not an adjudication it is a different set of circumstances. I don't expect that to sink in to you because of your basic disbelief in self defense in spite of your protestations to the contrary.

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There was a time our cops were like your bobbies were, "Cease your obstreperousness, guv, theres a good fellow, move along........."

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

No criminal charges were brought so no prosecutor found a problem with it. The arbitrator ordered the police force to reinstate the officer with back pay as well so it seems clear it was a clear cut case of self defense and the story being told by the right wing sites is not the whole story.

Wow! That's just amazing. You argue against every shooting, but this one you have no problem with.

By the way, I read several accounts of this, not just on "right wing sites". There was someone who posted the full account of what was said between the two, and the person who was shot was being a racist dick. He deserved to be ticketed, or arrested, for disturbing the peace. Possibly for assault on an officer with the "chest bumping" although at that point no ID had been presented (the officer was off duty and not in uniform).

The shooting itself was reminiscent of one that happened last year, one in which you blasted the shooter. The loud-mouth was in his car, the officer said he thought he was reaching for a weapon and shot him. There was no weapon found. But this was a good shooting to you. In the other incident a man got into an argument with a car-full of young-adults over the volume of their music. The argument got heated. The shooter swore he saw what appeared to be a shotgun being raised from the back-seat, and he fired. No weapon was found. That shooting was a horrible atrocity and the shooter deserved to rot in jail.

So what's the difference Ken?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

All killings of a human being a homicides and all must be adjudicated to determine if they were lawful. maybe you really are dense. I explained that to you in the above posts. I bolded it for you.

===============================================

Ken you stated that all homicides are criminal acts.
Clearly not true.
Justifiable homicide is not a crime, any more than not having stolen something is. Self defense is the most basic human right, the fact is that justifiable homicide means it was legal. It is not an adjudication it is a different set of circumstances. I don't expect that to sink in to you because of your basic disbelief in self defense in spite of your protestations to the contrary.

And despite your ignorance you have to prove it was justified to the satisfaction of the criminal justice system. Notice the bolded word?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

There was a time our cops were like your bobbies were, "Cease your obstreperousness, guv, theres a good fellow, move along........."

Oooh no. There'd be no 'guv' in that. Like coppers all over the English-speaking world, ours have mastered the art of making the words 'Sir' and 'Madam' sound like they should be spelt with four letters. ;-)

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No criminal charges were brought so no prosecutor found a problem with it. The arbitrator ordered the police force to reinstate the officer with back pay as well so it seems clear it was a clear cut case of self defense and the story being told by the right wing sites is not the whole story.

Wow! That's just amazing. You argue against every shooting, but this one you have no problem with.

By the way, I read several accounts of this, not just on "right wing sites". There was someone who posted the full account of what was said between the two, and the person who was shot was being a racist dick. He deserved to be ticketed, or arrested, for disturbing the peace. Possibly for assault on an officer with the "chest bumping" although at that point no ID had been presented (the officer was off duty and not in uniform).

The shooting itself was reminiscent of one that happened last year, one in which you blasted the shooter. The loud-mouth was in his car, the officer said he thought he was reaching for a weapon and shot him. There was no weapon found. But this was a good shooting to you. In the other incident a man got into an argument with a car-full of young-adults over the volume of their music. The argument got heated. The shooter swore he saw what appeared to be a shotgun being raised from the back-seat, and he fired. No weapon was found. That shooting was a horrible atrocity and the shooter deserved to rot in jail.

So what's the difference Ken?

The difference is that I'm not relying on witness statements in the media. I'm relying on the investigations of both the local prosecutor and an independent arbitrator both of which found in favor of the cop.


When a bunch of right wing sites freak out and contradict the prosecutors
findings I look for other sources and that is when I found that the arbitrator had also found it to be self defense. So I simply do not believe the lying racist right wing nut job sites.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


Fair to say that in Germany they would both be dead, no questions asked.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Yeah. Bullets sometimes pass through, and aren't found in the body. The key bit was that the examiner who did the "autopsy" hadn't even seen the x-rays, Polite.

You're not ahead of me, Polite. You're so far behind you are about to get lapped.

Not only are you behind me, you cant even read. Baden stated brown had been shot six times.

Keep posting bullshit and I will keep pointing it out.

Duh, dumbass, but only 3 bullets were recovered in the body - read what you quoted. Bullets sometimes keep going, right out the other side, and are not recovered.

Maybe get your information from better sources than the ones who can't tell the difference between earplugs and rubber bullets?

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

So what would a British officer do if the citizen escalated a minor public order violation into a real confrontation? Let's say he's trying to get a couple of your soccer hooligans to get out of the middle of the street and they just want to fight. Eulero83 seems to be implying that police in his area would just let it go.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

With turning tail you mean just give them a warning? Our traffic laws are less car friendly so if a second car hit the boys here the driver would be charged with involountary mayhem or manslaughter, and the cop would not be considered responsible.

So are you honestly trying to say that if a police officer in Europe saw someone doing something illegal, told them to stop, and instead of obeying they started mouthing off to him, that he'd just ignore it and let them go about their business? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Fair to say that in Germany they would both be dead, no questions asked.

Is that based on facts, or an experience of your mate from the 70's?

Are all your posts as well researched and thought out as this one?

Yeah I thought so.......

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

With turning tail you mean just give them a warning? Our traffic laws are less car friendly so if a second car hit the boys here the driver would be charged with involountary mayhem or manslaughter, and the cop would not be considered responsible.

So are you honestly trying to say that if a police officer in Europe saw someone doing something illegal, told them to stop, and instead of obeying they started mouthing off to him, that he'd just ignore it and let them go about their business? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

I don't know what happens in the whole europe, I'm italian I can only talk about northern italy, I traveled but never had interactions with law enforcement outside that area.
For what's the general attitude there are illegal things and less illegal things, so jaywalking is not comparable to theft, and just implying that is something makes me wonder if you are serious or if you are exagerating it on purpose, in the case of walking in the middle of the street, they would probably just briefly stop say "guys plese use the sidewalk" and then go away, but the whole thing of not using the sidewalk is that big deal here, as I said traffic law is more pedestrian friendly here. Actually my father jaywalked some days ago he was called by a traffic officer but didn't stopped acting like he didn't hear and they didn't bothered to run after him. Anyway it would be for me unbelivable that someone reacts voilently over a 25€ fine and I'm sure of one thing... no gun would have been drawn.

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


Fair to say that in Germany they would both be dead, no questions asked.

Is that based on facts, or an experience of your mate from the 70's?

Are all your posts as well researched and thought out as this one?

Yeah I thought so.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Fair to say that in Germany they would both be dead, no questions asked.

Is that based on facts, or an experience of your mate from the 70's?

Are all your posts as well researched and thought out as this one?

Yeah I thought so.......