RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/19/2014 3:55:47 PM)

quote:

Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition?

Slaves are fatter.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/19/2014 6:51:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition?

Slaves are fatter.

O.M.G....FINALLY...R.O.F.L.M.C.D.A.O.




Redhusky -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 12:07:29 AM)

If we define slave by using the dictionary :"a person legally owned by another and having no freedom of action or right to property; who is forced to work for another against his will"
However in D/s , M/s relationship and in BDSM it's different.
As much as we say in out profiles we are slave , we will never be slaves defined by the dictionary if we have freedom.
In collarspace or in FetLife all slave have freedom, so they are submissive and not slaves by the dictionary. But if we arent slaves , then why does BDSM use the word slave if we arent ? Why does FetLife or Collarspace allows selecting this role if we arent ?

We dont use the same definition of slave that the dictionary use. So it depends from person to person.




MistressKel -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 3:36:53 AM)

There is also a difference between a simple slave (like most here consider a slave to be) and chattel...chattel are slaves that give up ALL of their rights entirely to serve their Master/Mistress...




TheCabal -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 7:07:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Redhusky

If we define slave by using the dictionary :"a person legally owned by another and having no freedom of action or right to property; who is forced to work for another against his will"
However in D/s , M/s relationship and in BDSM it's different.
As much as we say in out profiles we are slave , we will never be slaves defined by the dictionary if we have freedom.
In collarspace or in FetLife all slave have freedom, so they are submissive and not slaves by the dictionary. But if we arent slaves , then why does BDSM use the word slave if we arent ? Why does FetLife or Collarspace allows selecting this role if we arent ?

We dont use the same definition of slave that the dictionary use. So it depends from person to person.


You are correct that there is no way, in the United States, to legally own another person. But it's not really that simple is it? Because I don't legally own another person, does not mean that other person doesn't consider themselves owned. There's a difference between the legal aspects of a situation and the practical aspects to it.

Sort of similar to the way people look at slave contracts. No slave contract is legally binding in the United States, but that doesn't mean that there's no agreement between the people who've signed it, or that the people who've entered into the contract don't intend to fulfill their obligations under it, whether or not those obligations are legally enforceable.




littleladybug -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 7:41:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal


You are correct that there is no way, in the United States, to legally own another person. But it's not really that simple is it? Because I don't legally own another person, does not mean that other person doesn't consider themselves owned. There's a difference between the legal aspects of a situation and the practical aspects to it.



Even if someone considers themselves "owned", they always retain one fundamental power: to leave.

And, while contracts for slavery are not enforceable in a court of law, they do show (a lot of times) one of the practical aspects of this sort of "slavery"-- negotiation between the parties. Perhaps the word "ownership" should also be defined here?




TheCabal -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 7:52:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal


You are correct that there is no way, in the United States, to legally own another person. But it's not really that simple is it? Because I don't legally own another person, does not mean that other person doesn't consider themselves owned. There's a difference between the legal aspects of a situation and the practical aspects to it.



Even if someone considers themselves "owned", they always retain one fundamental power: to leave.

And, while contracts for slavery are not enforceable in a court of law, they do show (a lot of times) one of the practical aspects of this sort of "slavery"-- negotiation between the parties. Perhaps the word "ownership" should also be defined here?



You might be surprised about a slave's ability to leave. Not so much in the physical sense (though it seems some actually do seek out full captivity) ... but it's not really all that difficult to create a level of dependence between Master and slave that makes leaving seem nearly impossible.




littleladybug -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 8:02:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal


You might be surprised about a slave's ability to leave. Not so much in the physical sense (though it seems some actually do seek out full captivity) ... but it's not really all that difficult to create a level of dependence between Master and slave that makes leaving seem nearly impossible.


I'm aware of the issues involved, the "dependency" happens in all sorts of relationships.

The key phrase here is "seem nearly impossible". The reality is, it is not impossible. It may be difficult, but if someone truly wants it, the opportunity is there.




Redhusky -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 10:16:39 AM)

Slave dont have any free chose of leaving there owners. They can just escape , but with the cost of there life. In short a real slave would risk there life to be free. I bet when slavery was legal and slaves tried to escape, some were killed in the process or the punishment for trying it was death.
No slave on collarme or Fetlife are putting there life at risk by leaving there owner.




TheCabal -> RE: Submissives and Slaves, Are there any real differences by reality or just definition? (8/20/2014 7:24:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCabal


You might be surprised about a slave's ability to leave. Not so much in the physical sense (though it seems some actually do seek out full captivity) ... but it's not really all that difficult to create a level of dependence between Master and slave that makes leaving seem nearly impossible.


I'm aware of the issues involved, the "dependency" happens in all sorts of relationships.

The key phrase here is "seem nearly impossible". The reality is, it is not impossible. It may be difficult, but if someone truly wants it, the opportunity is there.


I suppose, but I'd argue that for those living it, it's a distinction without a difference.




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