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Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 11:24:51 AM   
mastersayed


Posts: 119
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Something is really starting to piss me off, people trying to label and stereotype members of the BDSM society. Everybody is trying to stick a label like "abused as a child" or "only child" or "order of birth" or "extroverted or shy". Why cant people just realize that like the rest of society we as a community are varied and that we're not nesseccarily kinky due to something wrong in our past. A couple days ago somebody posted the Kinsey institute statistics on the BDSM community and what a suprise.. we're as normal and varied as the rest of society.
Somebody please give me some cnclusive evidence about the truth of this issue, does the past have anything to do with it or not?
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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 11:28:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		For those that assert that it does, it does.  For those that dispute it, there is no question it is not the case.

Hope that clears it up for you..........LOLOLOLOLOL.

Ron. 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 11:31:36 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Something is really starting to piss me off, people trying to label and stereotype members of the BDSM society. Everybody is trying to stick a label like "abused as a child" or "only child" or "order of birth" or "extroverted or shy". Why cant people just realize that like the rest of society we as a community are varied and that we're not nesseccarily kinky due to something wrong in our past. A couple days ago somebody posted the Kinsey institute statistics on the BDSM community and what a suprise.. we're as normal and varied as the rest of society.
Somebody please give me some cnclusive evidence about the truth of this issue, does the past have anything to do with it or not?



You have to reject stereotypes at the individual level.

It's worrying about others think that bolsters them.

(in reply to mastersayed)
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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 11:53:36 AM   
incognitobynight


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		I think some people like to find a reason for everything, including WHY they do the things they do, why they want the things they want, what makes them tick.  The BDSM community is not the only group that does this.  Gay and lesbians have been doing it for years.  We are still considered by mainstream society to be....irregular (is that a sufficient term for this?)  I think that causes a lot of us to wonder why we are "irregular" and why Mary Jane down the street is not.  I think what Ron says, probably sums it up the best I have ever seen..."For those that assert that it does, it does.  For those that dispute it, there is no question it is not the case. "   For some people, they really enjoy the process of trying to discover who they are and why they are.......they will never be completely satisfied with the answer because that means they would have to give up the discovery process.  It is the process that fulfills them the most. 


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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:32:18 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		It's been my experience that some folks have a hard time with the phrase or idea:
"I don't know", so they have to have a reason, even if it hasn't been "proved". 

As  with many other topics, my guess is that most "evidence" re: "Why people become bdsm oriented will have some counter-evidence that conflicts with it. Conclusive evidence probably exists for some topics, but for sure it isn't this one. Like someone, said, does it really matter?

I agree it can be interesting (sometimes very interesting) to speculate "why", out of curiosity, but can lead to weird conclusions for someone (I think), and maybe even emotional damage and God knows what else, when someone "tells" or insists that someone else is interested in it because they were physically or sexually abused and for no other reason (as if they can do something about that now, anyway).
I'd think it would be obvious there are many people who also have been abused that have no experience, or maybe even interest, in bdsm.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/11/2006 1:46:28 PM >

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That perches in the soul,
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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:48:39 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Something is really starting to piss me off, people trying to label and stereotype members of the BDSM society. Everybody is trying to stick a label like "abused as a child" or "only child" or "order of birth" or "extroverted or shy". Why cant people just realize that like the rest of society we as a community are varied and that we're not nesseccarily kinky due to something wrong in our past. A couple days ago somebody posted the Kinsey institute statistics on the BDSM community and what a suprise.. we're as normal and varied as the rest of society.
Somebody please give me some cnclusive evidence about the truth of this issue, does the past have anything to do with it or not?



Mastersayed,
IMO, each person is responsible for their own actions and even if something happened in the past to cause you to do things today, it is not an excuse, it is only an explaination of why you are the way you are today. You have to decide if you want to allow the past to rule your decisions of today. What I can't stand is when someone uses their childhood abuses, past drug use, past relationships, ect. as an excuse to "act out" today. You have to make a conscience decision to not allow your past to rule who you are now. I grew up in the most horrendous enviroment you can imagine, however, I decided years ago to not allow it to effect who I am today, unless it is done in a positive manner.

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:49:40 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Something is really starting to piss me off, people trying to label and stereotype members of the BDSM society. Everybody is trying to stick a label like "abused as a child" or "only child" or "order of birth" or "extroverted or shy". Why cant people just realize that like the rest of society we as a community are varied and that we're not nesseccarily kinky due to something wrong in our past. A couple days ago somebody posted the Kinsey institute statistics on the BDSM community and what a suprise.. we're as normal and varied as the rest of society.
Somebody please give me some cnclusive evidence about the truth of this issue, does the past have anything to do with it or not?



It's the people that suffer from a need to catergorize. They all had mothers that sorted their clothes out carefully for them, into a dresser with too many drawers. 


< Message edited by Kedikat -- 7/11/2006 1:50:19 PM >

(in reply to mastersayed)
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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:51:19 PM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		I agree. I've seen more topics related to the issue of abuse. However, in a D/s relationship or vanilla relationship, abuse can occur regardless. Therefore, if someone was abused as a child, I think they'd find a way to 're-live' that experience in any type of situation. I do agree that many say, "Those submissives must have been abused..." a bit too much.  Also, Susan is right, there is NO evidence to suggest that submissives were more or less abused than vanilla(s).

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What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:51:51 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		nope, none of those reasons are the reasons i am in the lifestyle. my reason is choice.

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:52:48 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		As clear as mud, Ron. Clear as mud. LOL!!

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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 1:56:54 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

Something is really starting to piss me off, people trying to label and stereotype members of the BDSM society. Everybody is trying to stick a label like "abused as a child" or "only child" or "order of birth" or "extroverted or shy". Why cant people just realize that like the rest of society we as a community are varied and that we're not nesseccarily kinky due to something wrong in our past. A couple days ago somebody posted the Kinsey institute statistics on the BDSM community and what a suprise.. we're as normal and varied as the rest of society.
Somebody please give me some cnclusive evidence about the truth of this issue, does the past have anything to do with it or not?



Of course the past has something to do with what and who you are. So does your genes and your jeans too for that matter. However we alone can decide if we will be programmed by our past or if we choose to learn from the past and be the best we can be taking all our assets (past nd present) and be what we can be.. From your post, you appear to have a handle on things so get out there ad forget what people think of you, bet the best you you can be. Stand the line and fuck what people's preconceived ideas of you are. No one can be a better you!


< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/11/2006 1:57:26 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 2:39:11 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Events from our pasts always have an effect on our present and future.  But it is stereotyping and categorizing to say that "all" people in BDSM are there because of specific events and/or specific events guarantee that they'll start participating in BDSM.

But, it's something that makes me say "hmm", not get royally pissed off.  Got more important things to get pissed off about.

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You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 3:36:33 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I just don't worry about what others say....its their problem.

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Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 3:40:54 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Its just human nature to try and put things into neet lil groups, it makes people nuts not to be able to explain something and unless they say.. everyone is kinky becaus ethey have been abused their world falls apart because they cant  pin point exactly why we are as we are

-da enigma-

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 5:50:15 PM   
SubMizu


Posts: 18
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		I think that in order for people to see that something as ephemeral as BDSM desires do exist, they need to make a physical correlation the 'proves' to them why people behave in this way. Of course they don't think to do such things with their own behaviours and desires because they are used to what they like and view it as normal...

So if others could simply understand that normalcy is as objective as truth is then things would be easier for all!

~Sub Mizu

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/11/2006 8:46:28 PM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He enters, dips His lid to all.

Well said Iron Bear (accept a bow)
Submizu's So if others could simply understand that normalcy is as objective as truth is then things would be easier for all! began my brain cells!   Well said. Truth is as subjective as being normal!

We as human beings have to categorise to learn and recall. It is our lack of understanding ourselves that confuses our relationships with others. 
For example; Fire engines are red, black is darkness, darkness is night-time, night-time is where people disappear by the boogie monster (the Salem witches for Americans?) Little Red Riding Hood was eaten by a big black wolf.  Some people used to believe that black people are evil. People that wear black are evil. Subs are red riding hoods ready for devouring by the Dom big black wolf.  All this is categorising to make sense to our learning and we must do this to have OUR information stored neatly in our folders. (Our brain is a computer) it is OUR capacity to provide reasoned and logical thought that further classifys or cross links these different folders. (we all have subfolders on our computers)

To the original OP:  So what if people view Lifestylers as being abused, empathetic to abuse, etc... it is OUR way of assimilating/ordering information and to some extent these elements are all true.   It is recognition of what elements make up a BDSM group.  There are no conclusions on whether this is healthy or not.  That is up to an individuals reasoned and hopefully logical thought. 
I can also be a Slut,straight, poly, gay, metrosexual and macho.  I posess elements of belonging/categorization to all these BUT I am me.  I ACCEPT that less journeyed are stuck on categorising and not cross linking their 'information folders'. It is my responsibility to accept this and think,plan, act, to assist their further enlightenment(cross linking) not to ridicule them and certainly not relevant to waste time refuting the initial categorization (black is evil)but to extrapolate (further extend) the category folder into sub folders(sub categories) by logical debate. (My hat is off to you John and Libby Warren) 

Sexual orientation does not possess empathy and understanding but 'understanding of oneself' does. 

It is society's wish and NEED to categorise people  into mutually acceptable groups reflecting all encompassing values. (stereotypes)

There was a metrosexual thread last  week, now we might have a gay thread, and we have numerous threads on what is desirable in a Dom, so I 'accept' and 'sub folder'. 

I love and hate stereotypes, it is an unfortunate part of life that our psyche demands 'categories' for knowledge and learning but it is the less journeyed that fail to see this.

I for one love black leather and particularly red and black on a sub.I don't view myself as evil, nor as a big bad black wolf but I do get off on the concious correlation from my learnings as a child!  Triggers, fetishes, etc tend to be positive crosslinkings from negative and positive memories (folders) from childhood.  I cant argue with that! That's logical and healthy! It's recognition of personal growth.   

Warm regards to all, .

Driver 1961. Sir to His loving WildChild. 

 

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

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RE: Stereotyping - 7/12/2006 6:16:13 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Stereotyping is an art form really. Its best used to make broad points about subjects. Its like a category. No human is in fact an entire stereotype. When you actually zero in one any specific the stereotype generally falls apart.
 

(in reply to Driver1961)
Profile   Post #: 17
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