quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


The books exist, as does their vast readership. So, could we just accept that? You know, because there is no alternative. The whining is getting... unseemly.

To those who have a problem with the existence of the books or the film, once your whining needs have been satisfied, what next? Are you going to DO something? anything?

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Personally, I'd like to see more talk from the community about celebrating the differences between abusers and sadists becoming widely known and understood.

Do you know who DOESN'T want that ^^^ to happen? Abusers who are using BDSM to confuse, manipulate and terrorize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


The books exist, as does their vast readership. So, could we just accept that? You know, because there is no alternative. The whining is getting... unseemly.

To those who have a problem with the existence of the books or the film, once your whining needs have been satisfied, what next? Are you going to DO something? anything?

Thanks for turning the expression of an opinion about something into "whining."

You didn't read the study so your comments that happen after that statement are kind of pointless are they not?

I don't think anyone here has a problem with consent. But thanks for the links anyway.

quote:

Personally, I'd like to see more talk from the community about celebrating the differences between abusers and sadists becoming widely known and understood.

Do you know who DOESN'T want that ^^^ to happen? Abusers who are using BDSM to confuse, manipulate and terrorize.

I've read plenty of sections and stories from members posting up their "BDSM" abuse horror stories. Been fairly well dealt with for a long time here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

The whining. This is a community which is based on power. Who has it, who gives it, etc... You'd think we'd be attuned to the ways of power. This is the second thread, and one of numerous posts, in which 50 Shades is demonized. Stating an opinion has turned into, "I've never read 50 Shades, but..." LOL

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Books are like flavors... to each their own, I say. But some here are on a mission to stamp out 50 Shades. THAT is the opposite, of power.

The opportunity here is to use the situation ( the upcoming onslaught of new members as well as an enlargement of the vanilla public discussion) to our benefit. But, people would need to emerge as leaders, and leaders aren't whiners. I'll define...

Whiner - Dislikes something. Complains. Remains powerless and continues complaining, WAITING for others to rescue them.

Leader - Dislikes something. Creates a plan of response which benefits others.

So, your definition may vary... at this point, I see whiners.

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You clipped off the rest of that paragraph, I suspect because you are unfamiliar with abstracts and guidelines for research studies? I've written them and am clear on how to spot biases or deep flaws. That study is not only severely limited in scope, it is so limited, that the results cannot be expanded to form a valid generalization on the topic. Meaning, there are no useful results because the research study itself, is not organized towards a usable outcome. So yes, the comments after "I didn't read the study" do have meaning, to those who understand.

And before that gets twisted, I'm not saying anyone is stupid who doesn't know how research studies are constructed, etc..., because I don't know everything, either. However, others who are familiar can read the abstract, conclusions, parameters, etc... and know if the study itself, is worth reading, or not.

That's not about agreeing or disagreeing, with content. It's about ethical research practices and avoiding bias. Biased studies are conducted deliberately to advance an agenda. It can be marketing, in academic "clothing."

Reading the article... the most important part of it was that the author felt her only recommendation is for people to view media with a critical eye. Translate that: there is no point of view, or results, to convey here. Judge carefully, for yourself. It's just a fluff piece, IMO.

About consent... I was talking about the vanilla, general public becoming informed enough to make a distinction between a sadist and an abuser. I would think that sadists would be very happy with that development. Even if they are the FU types, they are still subject to, and vulnerable to, vanilla-MINDED laws. So, if vanilla types understand there is no more need to protect an adult from physical harm from BDSM than for say... jet-skiing, then the laws will change.

The link I posted is for the association in BDSM that gathers information which affects our lives. Laws, policies, education, etc... and since the people participating on this thread care about these things, they can put that caring into action. Sign a petition. Tell ncsf about your experience. Help create the BDSM culture. You know, click your mouse, make a difference!

There's an old saying, "You can't criticize until you contribute, first."

So, no, I don't respect the whining. Got a problem with the way things are? Contribute to the solution. Create a solution.

Finally, the "I can't have a drink and call it legal consent" is just another whine. It's best to go to the website, and go read the FACTS on what is actually at risk, when you have not only one drink, (BTW, 1/4 a beer, and I'm tanked), but are on a prescription medication or an illegal drug.

It's not about a person's OPINION. The laws matter. We take risks. I'm saying, do the homework so you and your partner(s), know how to make informed decisions, before you act on those choices.

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Your opinion is worth what it's worth, but it is certainly not sufficient for anyone to make an informed decision, right? People have to turn to authorities on the subject, unless they are fools! We all have opinions, but if the search ends there... oh my! Facts are required.

That is not meant as a put-down, Guage. I've seen you freely admit when you don't know something. I think your ease with that, and return to curiosity on a given subject, shows intelligence. So, don't get me wrong on this point.

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And, once aware of how the courts are actually ruling on these things, then people can see if they care enough to put in some volunteer time to make the changes. Like a leader.

I guess I expect my fellow Dominants to do more than complain. It's a failure to be responsible. Responsible - the ability to respond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Guage -

I just had to check. I thought it was you who started this thread titled, "50 Shade of Get the Fuck Out of Here, and it was you!

ETA - And you say you didn't complain about the books? Paint me confused.

Can you see where you are whining? About something you haven't even read? LOL I can see that you are all passionate about complaining and you haven't even done your proverbial homework.

Critics read the books first. In what world do YOU give any respect to a critic who doesn't? I don't. I wouldn't even say that reflects high standards on my part. I'm just requiring the bare minimum of preparation to discuss the topic.

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Then you go on to criticize perhaps the ONLY factual part of the study. That drinking even one glass of alcohol eliminates consent. That doesn't fit your fantasy. I understand that. However, your opinion that it isn't true, is simply ignorant. Ignorant of the facts.

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Which is why I provided a way for you, and anyone who thinks you could be correct, to go learn their way out of the ignorance. This may be achieved by those who care about consent, jail and BDSM practices, by becoming informed on what is actually going on in the courts. NCSF is our agency on those frontlines, working to expand our freedom.

You are flat out wrong. Consent to being hit is not a legal concept yet, but there are some cases in which it has been considered, anyway. If you think that adding alcohol to the mix is something the legal system will support, wrong again. If you want it to be okay, acceptable or legally sanctioned, that consent is present even when substances are involved, then go for it!

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That, will transport you from the land of whining, to the company of leaders.

Understand THAT yet?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Guage -

I just had to check. I thought it was you who started this thread titled, "50 Shade of Get the Fuck Out of Here, and it was you!

ETA - And you say you didn't complain about the books? Paint me confused.

Can you see where you are whining? About something you haven't even read? LOL I can see that you are all passionate about complaining and you haven't even done your proverbial homework.

Critics read the books first. In what world do YOU give any respect to a critic who doesn't? I don't. I wouldn't even say that reflects high standards on my part. I'm just requiring the bare minimum of preparation to discuss the topic.

Whining? Sure. Whining. In your world. Not mine.

Please quote for me where I complained about the books. Just one quote will do. I'll wait.

Take note of the title of this thread... one big whine/complaint.

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Then you go on to criticize perhaps the ONLY factual part of the study. That drinking even one glass of alcohol eliminates consent. That doesn't fit your fantasy. I understand that. However, your opinion that it isn't true, is simply ignorant. Ignorant of the facts.

My fantasy? Oh boy. You don't know me very well.

If you can actually believe that one regular beer can render someone unable to consent to BDSM then I don't know what more to say.

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Which is why I provided a way for you, and anyone who thinks you could be correct, to go learn their way out of the ignorance. This may be achieved by those who care about consent, jail and BDSM practices, by becoming informed on what is actually going on in the courts. NCSF is our agency on those frontlines, working to expand our freedom.

You are flat out wrong. Consent to being hit is not a legal concept yet, but there are some cases in which it has been considered, anyway. If you think that adding alcohol to the mix is something the legal system will support, wrong again. If you want it to be okay, acceptable or legally sanctioned, that consent is present even when substances are involved, then go for it!

Bah... I am not talking about the courts... the courts would convict most of us for rape and abuse if it came to it. I am talking about a person's ability to give consent to being bound and spanked. You mean to tell me that you believe one drink so clouds the mind that they do not know what it is they are doing?

I suggest that you are satisfied with an opinion which lacks the research and knowledge to make it an informed one. I've offered a place where it lifts this disagreement up out of what you think versus what I think. Go get the facts, or don't. Others who read this will do what they think is best for themselves, for their subs... as did I. Not everyone is playing at the same level. I'm serious about accepting responsibility and to me, that means being current on legalities. Don't answer me. Answer you, privately. On what do you base your opinion that "the courts would convict most of us for rape and abuse" so therefore, it makes no difference if substances (alcohol) are involved?

And, yes, 1/4 a beer and I'm drunk. People vary, but you are missing the point. It doesn't matter what you think. Facts, are available. I'm saying, the wisest of us knows what they are and get over ourselves long enough to take that in.

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That, will transport you from the land of whining, to the company of leaders.

Understand THAT yet?

I'll let you know the first time I whine about something.

I'm picturing a 2-year old, hand on hips, stomps foot. Hmmmph! My thought... "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

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ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

If it makes a difference, there is supposed to be a fourth installment of Anne Rice's Beauty trilogy *headdesk*

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... “In a BDSM relationship, if there is any alcohol or substance abuse involved [as there is in the book],” she explained, “that essentially negates consent.”

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

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ORIGINAL: ClassAct2006

I liked the books and good for the writer to make such a success of it. They are about someone dominant with someone who is not submissive however, like a gay man with a woman so they are not really at all about a real Ds relationship.
I thought it was good though to see an accurate description of people who are dom and nice that it was censorious of it as it normally would be. Much of what he wants to do to her is what most submissive women would like.

Soooooo

you thought it was an accurate description of what a dominant is?

I feel sorry for you, if you truly think that.

THE books are pieces of shit