RE: how important is structure?

RE: how important is structure? (Full Version)

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Caretakr -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 2:24:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania It is a highly contentious thing, calling someone that engages in poor decisions sexually a sex addict. I did some research on sex addiction to help a friend determine whether she was involved with one, and I was shocked to find out that this is not really considered an addiction by many of those who study addiction. It is like someone that is compulsive about any behavior, they are not necessarily addicted to it.. like compulsive thieves and liars. You may get a rush off of stealing something, but it doesn't mean you are addicted to it according to the reading I have done on the subject. That being said, there are people that have poor impulse control, and the last thing these individuals need is a dominant to try to change that fact... they need to get a grip on their behavior on their own... On edit,... sex addiction may well exist as far as I know...lol... I just wanted to put a new idea that I had recently discovered out there... I am not a psych specialist of any variety. Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract. We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time. Seriously, look into this behavior in a clinical manner before getting involved. Rose colored glasses are not going to serve your best interests in this. I made the mistake of thinking I could FIX this as well-and I suffered greatly for my delusions.

SusanofO -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 2:34:21 PM)
Feeling a very strong "connection" (attraction, plus trust) with the other person. If it's not there, why would I want to be submissive toward them, in particular, over anyone else? After that (or maybe con-currently) communication. - Susan

windchymes -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 2:34:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: whtsubf4DOM the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? "Most Important"? Common goal(s). But never let your goals become "common" [;)][:D]

juliaoceania -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 2:36:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract. We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time. I think the most important question you should be asking yourself is that if nothing changed about this individual would you want them as your submissive? I do not like "strict" dominants either, as for his aversion to structure. I do not like a dominant that is always looking to modify my behavior as if I was not pleasing in who I am...curb my impulses perhaps, change me completely.. no... I like me immensely, why pursue me if you find me flawed? If you can be with someone that is as exploratory as this person is then I would delight in their willingness to try new things, if this bothers you perhaps he would need someone that would want to explore with him. Some people are just more kinky than others, if you cannot accept him the way that he is in this regard perhaps it is not a good match? I really do not know what to say to you, other than there seems to be a disconnect in that he knows he is afraid of structure and you represent it to him. He avoids structure and yet asks you to provide it? I am highly unsure how to respond to you and give you advice because I do not know what his needs are, or yours for that matter.

DoctorDubious -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 3:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? Would it be structure? Hey whtsub, and all..... just this opionated old goat's thoughts... Mutual respect + trust ==> intense physical/emotional experiences ==> love repeat many times in ever ascending spirals, deepening all 8 words above. DD PS.... >>Would it be structure? ... no fuckin' way life is improv theatre from birth to death, try to follow some script and you're "performing" somebody elses's life.

feastie -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 3:52:11 PM)
Structure is not what I consider to be an essential element to a D/s relationship. We all have structure already. We get up, we go to work or if we stay home, we take care of chores that need to be done...yada yada yada. What's necessary in a D/s relationship, is the recognition of and exchange of power from one to another. Honesty, integrity and all that other stuff is necessary to any relationship, not just D/s.

anthrosub -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 3:55:47 PM)
I think communication and common sense are the most important. These two factors automatically include such things as trust and common goals. I've had many opportunities to talk with Dominants who were easily able to handle social situations but were also scatter brained when you looked at how they managed their own affairs. In my opinion, they lacked structure for themselves. anthrosub

MistressSassy66 -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 3:56:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? Would it be structure? No, I consider basic social skills the most important. Rules will not save a bonehead from screwing up. On either side of the equation. I wholeheartily agree.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 3:57:11 PM)
It sounds to me like the question you're asking isn't "how important is structure in a D/s relationship -in general-" but "how important do you think that structure is in -this- relationship that I'm describing." We would consider taking on a servant for training under these circumstances, but I'll be honest -- there would -have- to be structures in place. There would have to be a formal contract, addressing each of the points we were working on, and we would have to go over it before we started working with the person, to make sure xhe understood the parameters. There would also be structure in place in the training process. The reason being that sometimes, in order to gain control of oneself, one must first experience that control is a -good- thing, by voluntarily succumbing to control placed by someone else. If this person is struggling with impulse control, and wants to learn how to make better decisions, one of the best ways to do that is to live within a structure that teaches the process of making good decisions. The person may choose not to abide by the structure, in which case we would return to the contract, re-confirm the goals -- for an individual who has avoided structure for 30 years, there is bound to be some resistance to accepting a more structured life. Over time, you may find that this person will need progressively less structure, or will be able to create functional structures on his own to regulate his progress, but in the beginning, should he agree to take this step with you, part of what it sounds like you are going to be doing is providing him with "willpower" -- an external force of will that can contain his tendency to act impulsively, to his own detriment. One major caution that I would offer, dominant individual to dominant individual, is to make sure that your structures support him developing a strong and healthy will of his own -- if you shatter his will, and destroy his initiative, you will not have improved the situation, and run the risk of creating a dependent, ineffectual decision-maker with no drive or ambition to take responsibility for his own actions -- the polar end of what you are conceivably considering working on with him now. ZWD quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract. We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time.

sirdontre -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 4:03:04 PM)
Structure is very important in any realtionship if there is a goal .Think for a moment in your home ,job,family ,and friend circle there is structure . In a very intense giving relationship such as BDSM relationship structure must be present .The BDSM relationship carries many aspects of growth in it for all parties involved . Trust ,communication ,and a diverse opened mind must be present .Without either of the three a BDSM relationship can crumble .Causing misunderstanding of judgement and action .

Caretakr -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 4:47:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirdontre Structure is very important in any realtionship if there is a goal .Think for a moment in your home ,job,family ,and friend circle there is structure . In a very intense giving relationship such as BDSM relationship structure must be present .The BDSM relationship carries many aspects of growth in it for all parties involved . Trust ,communication ,and a diverse opened mind must be present .Without either of the three a BDSM relationship can crumble .Causing misunderstanding of judgement and action . But structure is reserved for more intimate living arrangements, for the most part. Getting a grip on impulses is about learning self control- that won't be imposed from without-it's the one with the problem's issue.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 6:47:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr But structure is reserved for more intimate living arrangements, for the most part. Getting a grip on impulses is about learning self control- that won't be imposed from without-it's the one with the problem's issue. I disagree that imposing control from without cannot help in teaching self-control. When I entered the monastary, my novitiate name was Firestorm. I had issues of my own with impulse control, and the joke around the house was that I was -certainly- passionate about things... but if I was given free rein to push my passions, I had so little control that I would burn the entire forest of my dreams to ash in the process. It was through structure and external controls, imposed by my monastic training, that I learned self-control, and how to channel my impulsiveness into constructive creativity -- and it is also the place where I learned to see the things I started through to fruition. External control is not a final -solution- to impulse control and poor self-direction and self-management... but it -is- an effective tool that can be used along the way to achieve those ends. ZWD

Caretakr -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 6:58:57 PM)
He's not in a monastic setting, he'll be running around loose when she isn't there. Only him wanting sex from HER is going to inhibit that. What do you think will happen, when he finds someone easier? Iv'e been out in the real world with people like this-I am not NEARLY as idealistic as you are. Why do you think she keeps mentioning "short term"?

champagnewishes -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 7:50:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? A partner....also helps if one is D and the other is s....[;)] Past that point, i would say the motivation and desire of both parties involved and depth of commitment to making it work.....

whtsubf4DOM -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 8:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caretakr He's not in a monastic setting, he'll be running around loose when she isn't there. Only him wanting sex from HER is going to inhibit that. What do you think will happen, when he finds someone easier? Iv'e been out in the real world with people like this-I am not NEARLY as idealistic as you are. Why do you think she keeps mentioning "short term"? I say "short-term" not because that's what either of us are expecting, but because it could ultimately be that way. The contract I have made is for 3 months with an option to renew, renegotiate and amend at the end of that period. I guess you can call that being cautious.

LadyHugs -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 8:55:27 PM)
Dear whtsubfDom, Ladies and Gentlemen; I would view in my mind's eye, the most important element in a D/s relationship would be communication. Without communication, nobody would negotiate the boundaries, the fears the cheers, the means to which replaces assumptions with facts as it relates to both the dominant and submissive relationship. Without communication, there would be no foundation for structure. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

BitaTruble -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 11:10:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? Would it be structure? Aside from the elements which are important to any relationship, specific to a D/s relationship, to me, is recognition of the authority and the willingness of both parties to abide by their agreements regarding that authority. To me, without the authority, it's not D/s. Celeste

DoctorDubious -> RE: how important is structure? (7/11/2006 11:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: champagnewishes A partner....also helps if one is D and the other is s....[;)] Past that point, i would say the motivation and desire of both parties involved and depth of commitment to making it work..... Hey Champ.... and all.... Champagne thoughts from champagnewishes..... I couldn't agree more! ... and of course, as an open-minded old goat, I always approve of things I agree with.... ... and vice versa, which really shows my flexibility! :) And, as those of you who know me are expecting... ... I have a theory about that.... To make an intimate love-relationship work requires only 2 things, 1. two "grown-ups" in the relationship 2. they both want to make it work. And, in a moment of stunning self-revelation, .. I can now reveal.... I've been in more than one relationship where there weren't any grown-ups, even though we had children ourselves... Sigh....... DD, a champagne-sippin' old goat, who avoids lame Dom P. Champagne puns at all costs on this Dom Forum... ... ya gotta say that last line *really fast* to squeeze even the slightest hint of humor out of it...

twicehappy -> RE: how important is structure? (7/12/2006 6:30:34 AM)
Communication, honesty, trust, and to me most importantly love.

champagnewishes -> RE: how important is structure? (7/12/2006 6:52:23 AM)
Damn DD...it's way to early in the morning i'm sure to appreciate all your post has to offer. My mind can't really get past the imagery of your flexibility [sm=smile.gif]. You are however, one of the few that have ever made the Dom reference with my ID....you also inspired my new tagline....LOL I actually thought further about this post as i drifted off to sleep last night. I still stick with my thought that in order to make anything successful, it requires effort stemming from a deep inner desire or want to make it happen...i was going to post further...but i think i will reserve it for a new thread in the not too distant future.

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