Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: how important is structure?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: how important is structure? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 2:24:54 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It is a highly contentious thing, calling someone that engages in poor decisions sexually a sex addict. I did some research on sex addiction to help a friend determine whether she was involved with one, and I was shocked to find out that this is not really considered an addiction by many of those who study addiction. It is like someone that is compulsive about any behavior, they are not necessarily addicted to it.. like compulsive thieves and liars. You may get a rush off of stealing something, but it doesn't mean you are addicted to it according to the reading I have done on the subject.

That being said, there are people that have poor impulse control, and the last thing these individuals need is a dominant to try to change that fact... they need to get a grip on their behavior on their own...

On edit,... sex addiction may well exist as far as I know...lol... I just wanted to put a new idea that I had recently discovered out there... I am not a psych specialist of any variety.




Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract.

We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time.



Seriously, look into this behavior in a clinical manner before getting involved. Rose colored glasses are not going to serve your best interests in this. I made the mistake of thinking I could FIX this as well-and I suffered greatly for my delusions.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/11/2006 2:25:55 PM >

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 2:34:21 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
Feeling a very strong "connection" (attraction, plus trust) with the other person. If it's not there, why would I want to be submissive toward them, in particular, over anyone else? After that (or maybe con-currently) communication.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/11/2006 2:37:20 PM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 2:34:56 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

whtsubf4DOM
the most important element in a successful D/s relationship?


"Most Important"?

Common goal(s).


But never let your goals become "common"

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 2:36:28 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM



Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract.

We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time.



I think the most important question you should be asking yourself is that if nothing changed about this individual would you want them as your submissive? I do not like "strict" dominants either, as for his aversion to structure. I do not like a dominant that is always looking to modify my behavior as if I was not pleasing in who I am...curb my impulses perhaps, change me completely.. no... I like me immensely, why pursue me if you find me flawed?

If you can be with someone that is as exploratory as this person is then I would delight in their willingness to try new things, if this bothers you perhaps he would need someone that would want to explore with him. Some people are just more kinky than others, if you cannot accept him the way that he is in this regard perhaps it is not a good match?

I really do not know what to say to you, other than there seems to be a disconnect in that he knows he is afraid of structure and you represent it to him. He avoids structure and yet asks you to provide it? I am highly unsure how to respond to you and give you advice because I do not know what his needs are, or yours for that matter.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/11/2006 2:38:32 PM >


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 3:43:26 PM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship?

Would it be structure?


Hey whtsub, and all.....
just this opionated old goat's thoughts...

Mutual respect + trust ==> intense physical/emotional experiences ==> love

repeat many times in ever ascending spirals, deepening all 8 words above.

DD

PS....

>>Would it be structure?

... no fuckin' way
life is improv theatre from birth to death,
try to follow some script and
you're "performing" somebody elses's life.


(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 3:52:11 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
Structure is not what I consider to be an essential element to a D/s relationship.  We all have structure already.  We get up, we go to work or if we stay home, we take care of chores that need to be done...yada yada yada.

What's necessary in a D/s relationship, is the recognition of and exchange of power from one to another.

Honesty, integrity and all that other stuff is necessary to any relationship, not just D/s.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to DoctorDubious)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 3:55:47 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline
I think communication and common sense are the most important.  These two factors automatically include such things as trust and common goals.  I've had many opportunities to talk with Dominants who were easily able to handle social situations but were also scatter brained when you looked at how they managed their own affairs.  In my opinion, they lacked structure for themselves.
 
anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 3:56:23 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? Would it be structure?


No, I consider basic social skills the most important.

Rules will not save a bonehead from screwing up.

On either side of the equation.





I wholeheartily agree.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 3:57:11 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
It sounds to me like the question you're asking isn't "how important is structure in a D/s relationship -in general-" but "how important do you think that structure is in -this- relationship that I'm describing."

We would consider taking on a servant for training under these circumstances, but I'll be honest -- there would -have- to be structures in place. There would have to be a formal contract, addressing each of the points we were working on, and we would have to go over it before we started working with the person, to make sure xhe understood the parameters. There would also be structure in place in the training process. The reason being that sometimes, in order to gain control of oneself, one must first experience that control is a -good- thing, by voluntarily succumbing to control placed by someone else.

If this person is struggling with impulse control, and wants to learn how to make better decisions, one of the best ways to do that is to live within a structure that teaches the process of making good decisions. The person may choose not to abide by the structure, in which case we would return to the contract, re-confirm the goals -- for an individual who has avoided structure for 30 years, there is bound to be some resistance to accepting a more structured life.

Over time, you may find that this person will need progressively less structure, or will be able to create functional structures on his own to regulate his progress, but in the beginning, should he agree to take this step with you, part of what it sounds like you are going to be doing is providing him with "willpower" -- an external force of will that can contain his tendency to act impulsively, to his own detriment.

One major caution that I would offer, dominant individual to dominant individual, is to make sure that your structures support him developing a strong and healthy will of his own -- if you shatter his will, and destroy his initiative, you will not have improved the situation, and run the risk of creating a dependent, ineffectual decision-maker with no drive or ambition to take responsibility for his own actions -- the polar end of what you are conceivably considering working on with him now.

ZWD


quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM


Well, the question is....is the sub seeking impulse control? He really wants the necessary and stringent training to be a better lover , among other things (he may not necessarily want to shut the impulse stuff out of his life). Would it even work if he didn't get a grip on that first? Would it be necessary for him to deal with his impulse stuff if he is getting the training he wants and needs? These are all questions that should be and will be asked before signing any contract.

We are planning to meet at some point in the future and have an intense, frank discussion about what all this will mean. Each will bring our own questions to the table and expect nothing upon arrival. I am, by no means, approaching this blind and uneducated. I care too much about him to take him down a path (by his choice too) that will lead nowhere or could be harmful. We both have a very strong desire to experience the D/s lifestyle together, even if only for a short time.



_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 4:03:04 PM   
sirdontre


Posts: 55
Joined: 3/10/2004
From: http://www.yahoo.groups.com/group/TTFK
Status: offline
Structure is very important in any realtionship if there is a goal .Think for a moment in your home ,job,family ,and friend circle there is structure .

In a very intense giving relationship such as BDSM  relationship structure must be present .The BDSM relationship carries many aspects of growth in it for all parties involved .
Trust ,communication ,and a diverse opened mind must be present  .Without either of the three a BDSM relationship can crumble .Causing  misunderstanding of judgement and action .

< Message edited by sirdontre -- 7/11/2006 4:04:07 PM >


_____________________________

No human is worth any human value if that human can not realize own self worth .One must observe one's value as a person .Seek from experience and grow wise as the key opening the path way to Self Worth .
Written by LEDONVITO III


(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 4:47:02 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirdontre

Structure is very important in any realtionship if there is a goal .Think for a moment in your home ,job,family ,and friend circle there is structure .

In a very intense giving relationship such as BDSM  relationship structure must be present .The BDSM relationship carries many aspects of growth in it for all parties involved .
Trust ,communication ,and a diverse opened mind must be present  .Without either of the three a BDSM relationship can crumble .Causing  misunderstanding of judgement and action .


But structure is reserved for more intimate living arrangements, for the most part. Getting a grip on impulses is about learning self control- that won't be imposed from without-it's the one with the problem's issue.

(in reply to sirdontre)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 6:47:29 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

But structure is reserved for more intimate living arrangements, for the most part. Getting a grip on impulses is about learning self control- that won't be imposed from without-it's the one with the problem's issue.


I disagree that imposing control from without cannot help in teaching self-control. When I entered the monastary, my novitiate name was Firestorm. I had issues of my own with impulse control, and the joke around the house was that I was -certainly- passionate about things... but if I was given free rein to push my passions, I had so little control that I would burn the entire forest of my dreams to ash in the process. It was through structure and external controls, imposed by my monastic training, that I learned self-control, and how to channel my impulsiveness into constructive creativity -- and it is also the place where I learned to see the things I started through to fruition.

External control is not a final -solution- to impulse control and poor self-direction and self-management... but it -is- an effective tool that can be used along the way to achieve those ends.

ZWD

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 6:58:57 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
He's not in a monastic setting, he'll be running around loose when she isn't there.

Only him wanting sex from HER is going to inhibit that.

What do you think will happen, when he finds someone easier? Iv'e been out in the real world with people like this-I am not NEARLY as idealistic as you are. Why do you think she keeps mentioning "short term"?

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/11/2006 7:02:58 PM >

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 7:50:36 PM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship?


A partner....also helps if one is D and the other is s....

Past that point, i would say the motivation and desire of both parties involved and depth of commitment to making it work.....

< Message edited by champagnewishes -- 7/11/2006 7:58:27 PM >


_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 8:48:18 PM   
whtsubf4DOM


Posts: 23
Joined: 1/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

He's not in a monastic setting, he'll be running around loose when she isn't there.

Only him wanting sex from HER is going to inhibit that.

What do you think will happen, when he finds someone easier? Iv'e been out in the real world with people like this-I am not NEARLY as idealistic as you are. Why do you think she keeps mentioning "short term"?


I say "short-term" not because that's what either of us are expecting, but because it could ultimately be that way. The contract I have made is for 3 months with an option to renew, renegotiate and amend at the end of that period. I guess you can call that being cautious.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 8:55:27 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
Dear whtsubfDom, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I would view in my mind's eye, the most important element in a D/s relationship would be communication.
 
Without communication, nobody would negotiate the boundaries, the fears the cheers, the means to which replaces assumptions with facts as it relates to both the dominant and submissive relationship.  Without communication, there would be no foundation for structure.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 11:10:51 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

What do you consider the most important element in a successful D/s relationship? Would it be structure?


Aside from the elements which are important to any relationship, specific to a D/s relationship, to me, is recognition of the authority and the willingness of both parties to abide by their agreements regarding that authority. To me, without the authority, it's not D/s.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: how important is structure? - 7/11/2006 11:16:43 PM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

A partner....also helps if one is D and the other is s....

Past that point, i would say the motivation and desire of both parties involved and depth of commitment to making it work.....



Hey Champ.... and all....

Champagne thoughts from champagnewishes.....
I couldn't agree more!


... and of course, as an open-minded old goat,
I always approve of things I agree with....
... and vice versa, which really shows my flexibility!

:)


And, as those of you who know me are expecting...
... I have a theory about that....

To make an intimate love-relationship work requires only 2 things,
1. two "grown-ups" in the relationship
2. they both want to make it work.



And, in a moment of stunning self-revelation,
.. I can now reveal....

I've been in more than one relationship where
there weren't any grown-ups,
even though we had children ourselves...

Sigh.......

DD, a champagne-sippin' old goat,
who avoids lame Dom P.  Champagne puns at all costs
on this Dom Forum...


... ya gotta say that last line really fast
to squeeze even the slightest hint of humor out of it...

< Message edited by DoctorDubious -- 7/11/2006 11:22:03 PM >

(in reply to champagnewishes)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: how important is structure? - 7/12/2006 6:30:34 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
Communication, honesty, trust, and to me most importantly love.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: how important is structure? - 7/12/2006 6:52:23 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
Damn DD...it's way to early in the morning i'm sure to appreciate all your post has to offer.  My mind can't really get past the imagery of your flexibility  .  You are however, one of the few that have ever made the Dom reference with my ID....you also inspired my new tagline....LOL

I actually thought further about this post as i drifted off to sleep last night.  I still stick with my thought that in order to make anything successful, it requires effort stemming from a deep inner desire or want to make it happen...i was going to post further...but i think i will reserve it for a new thread in the not too distant future.

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


(in reply to DoctorDubious)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: how important is structure? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109