"Get a warrant"

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Sanity -> "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 5:56:18 AM)
Video, man stands up to aggressive police demands to enter his home without a warrant http://www.infowars.com/man-stands-up-for-constitution-as-police-demand-to-enter-home-without-warrant/ I am not a fan of Infowars, but thats a really cool video.

hot4bondage -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 7:14:07 AM)
Good for him. They know they're on video and one of them still threatens to drag him out of his own house. I don't know if he helped himself any by demanding three forms of ID, but telling them the video was going straight to YouTube might have saved him.

Zonie63 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:51:39 AM)
Good video. Interesting that the cops kept telling the guy to turn off his camera. Any police officer (or other authority figure) who is afraid of being videoed or photographed is a red flag right there. I was just reading about how some departments are using new technologies to ID troubled officers. quote: Police departments across the U.S. are using technology to try to identify problem officers before their misbehavior harms innocent people, embarrasses their employer, or invites a costly lawsuit — from citizens or the federal government. While such "early warning systems" are often treated as a cure-all, experts say, little research exists on their effectiveness or — more importantly — if they're even being properly used.

tj444 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 2:17:00 PM)
The problem is that too many people capitulate and let the cops in.. cuz they think they have done nothing wrong so have nothing to hide, blah, blah, blah.. And the cops have been trained to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.. until they have intimidated you into letting them do whatever they want..

Sanity -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 3:35:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 The problem is that too many people capitulate and let the cops in.. cuz they think they have done nothing wrong so have nothing to hide, blah, blah, blah.. And the cops have been trained to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.. until they have intimidated you into letting them do whatever they want.. The police don't show the slightest gratitude if a person stupidly opens up. If you think the cops in the video acted badly at the door, have is no doubt that their behavior would have gotten much worse upon entry At that point that fellow would have been lower than dirt to them. They would have owned him and his residence at that point, and he would have been treated as if he were a convicted criminal until they decided to go He handled that extremely well considering the pressure. A- for his choice of speech, A+ for his self control and his attitude

Sanity -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 3:36:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 Good video. Interesting that the cops kept telling the guy to turn off his camera. Any police officer (or other authority figure) who is afraid of being videoed or photographed is a red flag right there. I was just reading about how some departments are using new technologies to ID troubled officers. quote: Police departments across the U.S. are using technology to try to identify problem officers before their misbehavior harms innocent people, embarrasses their employer, or invites a costly lawsuit — from citizens or the federal government. While such "early warning systems" are often treated as a cure-all, experts say, little research exists on their effectiveness or — more importantly — if they're even being properly used. The cop did have a point regarding the bright light in his eyes though, I thought

tj444 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 The problem is that too many people capitulate and let the cops in.. cuz they think they have done nothing wrong so have nothing to hide, blah, blah, blah.. And the cops have been trained to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.. until they have intimidated you into letting them do whatever they want.. The police don't show the slightest gratitude if a person stupidly opens up. If you think the cops in the video acted badly at the door, have is no doubt that their behavior would have gotten much worse upon entry At that point that fellow would have been lower than dirt to them. They would have owned him and his residence at that point, and he would have been treated as if he were a convicted criminal until they decided to go He handled that extremely well considering the pressure. A- for his choice of speech, A+ for his self control and his attitude the police don't need to show no one no stinking gratitude.. I have been in the position of a cop at the door wanting me to open it.. but I wouldn't do that and I basically told him to get lost.. This dude opened the door.. why? they have no right to enter so why even open the door? that is why the cops kept insisting he let them in, cuz he opened the dam door.. and that is why he was under pressure in the first place.. so I would not give him a very high grade at all.. I would give him a low grade for being dumb enough to open the door..

Sanity -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:28:11 PM)
Looked like he was shocked to see the cop there, and the cop stuck his foot in

tj444 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:32:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Looked like he was shocked to see the cop there, and the cop stuck his foot in shocked? and yet he had his camera with him and rolling, huh? so no, I don't think he was shocked or he wouldn't have been so prepared..

Sanity -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:43:02 PM)
Good point

Aylee -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 8:54:18 PM)
So I should never open the door when someone knocks in case it might be a cop? No, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to refuse entry without a warrant even it you DO open the door.

tj444 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 9:14:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee So I should never open the door when someone knocks in case it might be a cop? No, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to refuse entry without a warrant even it you DO open the door. opening the door allowed the cop to intimidate the guy, its harder to intimidate someone that doesn't open the door and talks thru the door (or better yet, thru an intercom).. it actually looked at one point (to me) that the cop was considering pushing his way in.. and at the very start he was trying to grab the camera from the guy.. Its just a lot easier to not open the door in the first place.. and imo, safer too..

Aylee -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 9:47:17 PM)
But that would mean I could never open the door. I cannot see who is on the other side. Intercom? Umm. . . not so much.

tj444 -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/4/2014 9:56:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee But that would mean I could never open the door. I cannot see who is on the other side. Intercom? Umm. . . not so much. that's what peep holes are for, I think they cost all of $10 or $20.. or outdoor cameras for those that want them..

joether -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/5/2014 1:33:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Video, man stands up to aggressive police demands to enter his home without a warrant http://www.infowars.com/man-stands-up-for-constitution-as-police-demand-to-enter-home-without-warrant/ I am not a fan of Infowars, but thats a really cool video. I find the material on Infowars to generally be 'rigged' in its viewpoint. In this case I see something different from the rest of you. An that is, what the educational level of the two police officers? How much training and retraining of skills have they gone through? More importantly, how professional is the police department in handling the wide range of issues that is now common? In communities with good, professional, and educated police officers, this would not happen. They would consult with the home owner, explain the nature of their visit, and be pretty calm and patient answering questions. Even professional police officers have trouble with cameras directed at them. That those that see the video only have that narrative. What was going on around the view of that screen? What was going on before and after the film's duration? If events unfolded, would an uneducated audience (i.e. one not understanding the fine particulars) obtain the concepts in full to make an informed opinion. Could the person the police were looking for be in that house? Holding the man's family hostage and told him "get rid of them, or I'll get rid of your family....permanently". Police have to assume things even when there is no evidence to support; its called intuition. Who knows more: Police Officers as it concerns the Constitution, or the Average Citizen as it concerns police work? Being a good police officer is not an easy job, nor is it thanked often by the community. Further....what is the circumstances of those individuals immediately before the camera starts rolling? Are the police officers just starting their shift or 'hour 22 of 24 hour shift'? Some communities can not afford shifts of police officers in holding a '9 to 5' job; some really bunch up the hours. But that happens when communities do not wish to maintain good police and emergency support services.

DomKen -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/5/2014 2:41:23 PM)
If the police actually had probable cause to believe the person they were searching for was in that apartment they didn't need a warrant. They would simply claim exigent circumstances and enter. Anything they found besides the fugitive would be inadmissible though so by not entering it says to me they were interested in something besides the supposed fugitive.

joether -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/5/2014 3:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If the police actually had probable cause to believe the person they were searching for was in that apartment they didn't need a warrant. They would simply claim exigent circumstances and enter. Anything they found besides the fugitive would be inadmissible though so by not entering it says to me they were interested in something besides the supposed fugitive. Probable Cause is different from police intuition. In the first instance, the police officers could point out one or more circumstances leading to the determination something is wrong. Intuition is the knowing something is wrong, but no evidence to indicate something is wrong. Police officers can legally act on Probable Cause issues (In the moment), not issues based on their institution (need more tangible evidence).

DomKen -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/6/2014 4:22:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If the police actually had probable cause to believe the person they were searching for was in that apartment they didn't need a warrant. They would simply claim exigent circumstances and enter. Anything they found besides the fugitive would be inadmissible though so by not entering it says to me they were interested in something besides the supposed fugitive. Probable Cause is different from police intuition. In the first instance, the police officers could point out one or more circumstances leading to the determination something is wrong. Intuition is the knowing something is wrong, but no evidence to indicate something is wrong. Police officers can legally act on Probable Cause issues (In the moment), not issues based on their institution (need more tangible evidence). LEO's get a lot of leeway in exigent circumstances, i.e. in "hot pursuit." That guy could not have turned them away if they really though the suspect was in his apartment and he was wanted for a felony. They were trying to search that apartment for something else.

DaddySatyr -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/6/2014 4:42:24 AM)
About six months ago, I was sick for three days. I felt awful. I'm not normally one to be very good with keeping up with my cell phone, anyway and for those three days, the cell phone was upstairs and I was, basically, downstairs. On the third day, I'm on the couch, in my sweats and a bathrobe and slippers. A knock comes on the door and I open it. A Kingston, Pennsyltucky uniformed officer says: "Are you Michael ________?" I said I was and he said: "Call your uncle. He's worried about you." I thanked the officer and explained that I'd been sick and but, I'd call him, right away to alleviate his fears. Then, the officer said: "We don't have anything on you. Can you show me some ID?" My jaw literally hung open. The cop reached to open my screen door and I held it closed. I said: "Officer, I'm sick. I'm in my home, in sweats. You asked me my name and I confirmed it and now you're trying to gain entry to my house and asking me to re-identify myself?" He said: "Well, we don't have anything on you" and I said: "Yet, you knew where to come to find Michael _______?" I reported the incident to a sergeant whose acquaintance I've made. It turns out the cop is on the job less than six months and he's a bit ... over zealous. The sergeant assured me he'd talk to the youngster and that he wouldn't be in any trouble. The issue, though (I would think), is that *teaching* this kind of procedure must be going on in the academies? I understand the "need" for people to be able to identify themselves out on the street but, the officer identified me ! Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

joether -> RE: "Get a warrant" (9/6/2014 9:26:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If the police actually had probable cause to believe the person they were searching for was in that apartment they didn't need a warrant. They would simply claim exigent circumstances and enter. Anything they found besides the fugitive would be inadmissible though so by not entering it says to me they were interested in something besides the supposed fugitive. Probable Cause is different from police intuition. In the first instance, the police officers could point out one or more circumstances leading to the determination something is wrong. Intuition is the knowing something is wrong, but no evidence to indicate something is wrong. Police officers can legally act on Probable Cause issues (In the moment), not issues based on their institution (need more tangible evidence). LEO's get a lot of leeway in exigent circumstances, i.e. in "hot pursuit." That guy could not have turned them away if they really though the suspect was in his apartment and he was wanted for a felony. Were they in 'hot pursuit' in that video? They seem to be standing around on the guy's porch like they are waiting for a bus. Hardly qualifies as 'hot pursuit'. Again, there is probable cause and institution. They didn't have either to go on; they were just going door-to-door. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen They were trying to search that apartment for something else. And what was that? You have no evidence they were doing that. If your going to accuse someone of wrong doing, you are going to need some evidence.

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