quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

But then, why is he still single?
<snip>

I can't answer that yay or nay. Have you PM'd to see if that is indeed the case? He just recently relo'd from Michigan to Texas, from what I understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

The OP may have ruffled the feathers of a few, but there's something to be said for a little confidence and even a little sass -- when appropriate.

Do 'nice guy subs' finish last? I think they do, sadly. Because they get a TON of positive feedback and kudos from femdoms who tell them how awesome they are, but won't date them. They are friendzoning them and encouraging their "too safe" style of approaching femdoms as the likable, reliable, nice-guy sub who everyone says is a diamond in the rough but no one is lining up to take him off the market.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I wonder if femdoms are encouraging the wrong kind of stereotypes.

quote:

Lots of femdoms are cheerleaders for this kind of sub, but no one seems to be flying him out to meet and courting him and taking him off the market (him in general, not specific).

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I wonder if femdoms are encouraging the wrong kind of stereotypes.

Femdoms or Femdom porn, primarily not created by Dominant women for male consumption?

Would any woman find an obsequious, spineless wormy-acting carnival freak sexually attractive?
(As portrayed in this type of porn, which newbie male subs presume to emulate in phony slavishness.)
What I find disturbing, what little I've caught glimpses of, is how oftentimes the male slave is depicted as being NON-consensually FORCED to commit disgusting, gross acts of depravity or to have them FORCED upon him.
This becomes the template branded into the newbie's mind, that he must be bitch-forced to perform like a circus dog, not only emasculated, but sub-humanized.

What sort of LTR material does this kind of "submissive" man make? Why wouldn't his fuckability factor not just be zero, but run into the negative integers?

Btw, I must take exception to this:

quote:

Lots of femdoms are cheerleaders for this kind of sub, but no one seems to be flying him out to meet and courting him and taking him off the market (him in general, not specific).

I don't know what a handful of other Dommes do, but I don't court men. I'm the lady. If they want to be the woman and get courted, then they need to become a transgirl.
I'm certainly not flying a guy out to meet me...ROFLMAO. He'd be lucky as hell if I allowed him to fly me out to meet him. Besides, I only meet men on my own stomping grounds, the turf of my choice.

Once you start taking on the male lead role instead of the female lead role, you'll never be able to go back in time and make it right. Unless you want to feminize your man, which I personally do not. If I didn't want a man to be a man, then I'd be with an actual woman instead.

Bottom line, it isn't only submissive males. Most grown men this day and age don't know how to act like real gentlemen or how to treat a lady properly with respect or know how to behave romantically. There are a few who *get* it, not many. And I'm talking about since post-WWII! from the Baby Boomers until Gen Y nowadays.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I don't think the way you describe a female-led relationship where the femdom pursues is accurate - it's not dysfunctional. It's not gender reversal. I courted my husband hardcore (I paid for everything), but he was not feminized or turned into a girl. He was a house-husband the first 8 years or so of our relationship while I worked full time; he was not sissified to do this. He was all man, playing hockey and mountain biking in his spare time, taking great pride in cooking and managing the house while I earned an income.

There is nothing dysfunctional or weird about a woman pursuing a man, especially nowadays. Even if it isn't straight courtship i.e. "I want to fly you out here to meet me on my dime," it's perhaps a woman saying, "I am interested in you. Let's split the costs and make it happen."

What I am talking about is when a submissive is hailed as the "perfect sub" and others are encouraged to be more like him, but he's forthcoming about his inability to land in a longterm relationship despite knowing lots of kinky ladies and being friendzoned constantly.

While it may ruffle feathers, I think this points to a female need for ass kissing and coddling and attention from a guy they can keep at arm's length (and label a friend, even KNOWING he wants more) - it's the same way a lot of vanilla women treat men like shit by liking to be pursued or complimented or catered to and always being reliable, sweet, kind, generous -- yet when he pushes the romance envelope she says, "oh, no, I don't see you that way. I see you as a friend and I don't want to ruin that."

Subs who come across as super selfless, very interested in service, extremely safe, pleasant with a good resume/background in the kink community are always hailed as shining gems and newbies are told, "Act like this guy!" yet these guys have lots of kinky female "friends" but no romance. If these guys are so awesome, why aren't any of you ladies who sing their praises dating them romantically?

Akasha

quote:

A force is a push or pull upon an object resulting from the object's interaction with another object. Whenever there is an interaction between two objects, there is a force upon each of the objects. When the interaction ceases, the two objects no longer experience the force. Forces only exist as a result of an interaction.

This is just so much antagonistic feminist bullshit. Most means one more than 50%. The world and this country abound in both ladies and gentlemen who know how to behave in public and understand the essential necessity for romance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Women court men who are not tgirls all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I don't think the way you describe a female-led relationship where the femdom pursues is accurate - it's not dysfunctional. It's not gender reversal. I courted my husband hardcore (I paid for everything), but he was not feminized or turned into a girl. He was a house-husband the first 8 years or so of our relationship while I worked full time; he was not sissified to do this. He was all man, playing hockey and mountain biking in his spare time, taking great pride in cooking and managing the house while I earned an income.

There is nothing dysfunctional or weird about a woman pursuing a man, especially nowadays. Even if it isn't straight courtship i.e. "I want to fly you out here to meet me on my dime," it's perhaps a woman saying, "I am interested in you. Let's split the costs and make it happen."

What I am talking about is when a submissive is hailed as the "perfect sub" and others are encouraged to be more like him, but he's forthcoming about his inability to land in a longterm relationship despite knowing lots of kinky ladies and being friendzoned constantly.

While it may ruffle feathers, I think this points to a female need for ass kissing and coddling and attention from a guy they can keep at arm's length (and label a friend, even KNOWING he wants more) - it's the same way a lot of vanilla women treat men like shit by liking to be pursued or complimented or catered to and always being reliable, sweet, kind, generous -- yet when he pushes the romance envelope she says, "oh, no, I don't see you that way. I see you as a friend and I don't want to ruin that."

Subs who come across as super selfless, very interested in service, extremely safe, pleasant with a good resume/background in the kink community are always hailed as shining gems and newbies are told, "Act like this guy!" yet these guys have lots of kinky female "friends" but no romance. If these guys are so awesome, why aren't any of you ladies who sing their praises dating them romantically?

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I don't think the way you describe a female-led relationship where the femdom pursues is accurate - it's not dysfunctional. It's not gender reversal. I courted my husband hardcore (I paid for everything), but he was not feminized or turned into a girl. He was a house-husband the first 8 years or so of our relationship while I worked full time; he was not sissified to do this. He was all man, playing hockey and mountain biking in his spare time, taking great pride in cooking and managing the house while I earned an income.

There is nothing dysfunctional or weird about a woman pursuing a man, especially nowadays. Even if it isn't straight courtship i.e. "I want to fly you out here to meet me on my dime," it's perhaps a woman saying, "I am interested in you. Let's split the costs and make it happen."

What I am talking about is when a submissive is hailed as the "perfect sub" and others are encouraged to be more like him, but he's forthcoming about his inability to land in a longterm relationship despite knowing lots of kinky ladies and being friendzoned constantly.

While it may ruffle feathers, I think this points to a female need for ass kissing and coddling and attention from a guy they can keep at arm's length (and label a friend, even KNOWING he wants more) - it's the same way a lot of vanilla women treat men like shit by liking to be pursued or complimented or catered to and always being reliable, sweet, kind, generous -- yet when he pushes the romance envelope she says, "oh, no, I don't see you that way. I see you as a friend and I don't want to ruin that."

Subs who come across as super selfless, very interested in service, extremely safe, pleasant with a good resume/background in the kink community are always hailed as shining gems and newbies are told, "Act like this guy!" yet these guys have lots of kinky female "friends" but no romance. If these guys are so awesome, why aren't any of you ladies who sing their praises dating them romantically?

Akasha

Akasha, I have to say...the more I read about your view and position in the dynamic is the same way I would hope mine would evolve as well.
I love the fact that you have full and total control to the utmost in your relationship and dynamic. Your husband, I saw on another thread, does the book keeping, accounting, secretarial duties which means he does his part as your "pseudo-employee" which I believe adds to the dynamic even further.
I honestly would not know how to go about pursuing such a man, I was in a long term relationship for 10 years and the fellows on this site who claim to be submissive seem very kink centric and "me me me" for the most part. A service sub (non sexual) essentially may not be a problem and be the simplest way for me to remain part of this lifestyle while not attaching myself to anyone I would not deeply care for.
I see that same message (me me me from "subs) very often on the message boards as well. So my wondering is how do I court such a sub without "spoiling" him essentially.
Fiery's view in general is different in that she sees the man pursuing her while she does sort of a tango with him, testing him through various ways including and seemingly mostly the financial aspect initially, as his way of I suppose proving that his pursuit is not purely from self interest, I believe. Unless I am wrong about the derivative.
And then also, what if the dating/courting landscape has simply changed tremendously from since I met my sub, and you, your husband so that sort of approach may not work.
I would love to have some insight from you though I know this is a bit of a tricky question. I am casually vanilla dating and friend zoning quite a number of men in the meantime just to keep myself preoccupied a bit doing different things I enjoy with an "other".
I met a cuckie who shows promise (we'll be spending time today, he makes me laugh effortlessly) so kind of keeping myself relatively open to who I may meet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRage

@OP It's not about me putting in the effort to coax you into service. The effort is on you. Either you want to serve the Dommes goals and are willing to work for it, or you don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtOfWorship
<snip>
I know the natural order, Women are attracted to a mans survivability not the potential.

How can you say this? and please define potential. Potential (success) as a man? Potential as a mate? Potential as a submissive?

Which begs the question. You claim that you "want to be stalked and hunted." Your fantasy then is to catch the eye of a Dominant woman who will then take it upon herself to stalk you. Now, why would she do that? To wrest your submission from you? In what world does this happen? No Dominant woman has to go around stalking men. We have plenty of willing contenders.

How disingenuous of you then, that you believe you can pick and choose what type of woman would stalk you? You certainly don't want an unattractive woman forcing herself upon you, do you? No, of course not. She has to be an attractive Domme, that you couldn't get on your own.

Sitting around waiting on front-door service ain't gonna happen, dude. Wake up your lazy (donkey) ass and smell the coffee; get your wits about yourself. You're going nowhere fast with this fantasy construct.

[Edited for missing word]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtOfWorship

Maybe it is something completely different. Would a Queens knight be a slave? Was Michelangelo a slave to the pope? Are we not all a slave to a higher power, he who holds the Money?

Oh, this sounds vaguely familiar. I've heard it here before, I just wish I could remember where.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I don't think the way you describe a female-led relationship where the femdom pursues is accurate - it's not dysfunctional. It's not gender reversal. I courted my husband hardcore (I paid for everything), but he was not feminized or turned into a girl. He was a house-husband the first 8 years or so of our relationship while I worked full time; he was not sissified to do this. He was all man, playing hockey and mountain biking in his spare time, taking great pride in cooking and managing the house while I earned an income.

There is nothing dysfunctional or weird about a woman pursuing a man, especially nowadays. Even if it isn't straight courtship i.e. "I want to fly you out here to meet me on my dime," it's perhaps a woman saying, "I am interested in you. Let's split the costs and make it happen."

What I am talking about is when a submissive is hailed as the "perfect sub" and others are encouraged to be more like him, but he's forthcoming about his inability to land in a longterm relationship despite knowing lots of kinky ladies and being friendzoned constantly.

While it may ruffle feathers, I think this points to a female need for ass kissing and coddling and attention from a guy they can keep at arm's length (and label a friend, even KNOWING he wants more) - it's the same way a lot of vanilla women treat men like shit by liking to be pursued or complimented or catered to and always being reliable, sweet, kind, generous -- yet when he pushes the romance envelope she says, "oh, no, I don't see you that way. I see you as a friend and I don't want to ruin that."

Subs who come across as super selfless, very interested in service, extremely safe, pleasant with a good resume/background in the kink community are always hailed as shining gems and newbies are told, "Act like this guy!" yet these guys have lots of kinky female "friends" but no romance. If these guys are so awesome, why aren't any of you ladies who sing their praises dating them romantically?

Akasha

Akasha, I have to say...the more I read about your view and position in the dynamic is the same way I would hope mine would evolve as well.
I love the fact that you have full and total control to the utmost in your relationship and dynamic. Your husband, I saw on another thread, does the book keeping, accounting, secretarial duties which means he does his part as your "pseudo-employee" which I believe adds to the dynamic even further.
I honestly would not know how to go about pursuing such a man, I was in a long term relationship for 10 years and the fellows on this site who claim to be submissive seem very kink centric and "me me me" for the most part. A service sub (non sexual) essentially may not be a problem and be the simplest way for me to remain part of this lifestyle while not attaching myself to anyone I would not deeply care for.
I see that same message (me me me from "subs) very often on the message boards as well. So my wondering is how do I court such a sub without "spoiling" him essentially.
Fiery's view in general is different in that she sees the man pursuing her while she does sort of a tango with him, testing him through various ways including and seemingly mostly the financial aspect initially, as his way of I suppose proving that his pursuit is not purely from self interest, I believe. Unless I am wrong about the derivative.
And then also, what if the dating/courting landscape has simply changed tremendously from since I met my sub, and you, your husband so that sort of approach may not work.
I would love to have some insight from you though I know this is a bit of a tricky question. I am casually vanilla dating and friend zoning quite a number of men in the meantime just to keep myself preoccupied a bit doing different things I enjoy with an "other".
I met a cuckie who shows promise (we'll be spending time today, he makes me laugh effortlessly) so kind of keeping myself relatively open to who I may meet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I think I got lucky when he found me. He was kinky/sub curious, but not damaged by porn. It was also helpful that he was 10 years younger than me and just a pup when I seduced him - all for fun - until we fell in love (oops). I had been in plenty of long term relationships, his experience was limited. He was 19 when we met online, we talked on the phone for 2 years or so, then met in person in March, got engaged in May and married in June. It all happened very fast. He was 22 and I was 31, fully established in my career and doing well, while he was college educated but no job experience. It made sense for him to work for me. Besides, the first 6 months he could not work legally any way (green card) so instead he cooked, cleaned, and made himself useful. I got spoiled by that.

I would say date younger guys. I know it sounds odd but I think it presents a dynamic up front that puts you in the role of being more experienced. Date both vanilla and kinky guys.

Always be flexible. I could not have made this relationship work with him if I ruled with an iron fist. I respect his opinion, especially on financial matters. I am bad with money. He often objects to some of my financial wild hares (let's go to europe! let's get more pets! let's buy a hot tub!) and I listen to him, but I ultimately get my way - but his advice is always very sound. I am impulsive and he's deliberate.

It was a MAJOR change in our dynamic several years ago when he started working - first part time, then full time. He has a job he loves and we make a great dual income, but when I made ALL the money there was no doubt who was in charge financially. Now that he makes half the money, he has a "say" (this is all subtle how the dynamic changed) about money. He is also keenly focused on saving and retirement and I am free wheeling and whatnot.

It's also MUCH harder for him to be 100% attentive after working all day at a job. Subs say all the time they could do this - be a devoted slave on TOP of working full time, but try doing it day in and day out. It was a big adjustment for me not knowing I could just say -- go to sephora and get me new moisturizer. Go pick up my dry cleaning. Go take the dog to the vet. Now, we have to be realistic about how much pressure I put on him. He's still ultimately selfless in most matters but he can burn out without seeing it coming.

Communication is the key to all of this. We don't fight as a couple (in 12 years I think we've maybe had 2 arguments that lasted more than a few minutes) - but when we butt heads its over money. I work really hard, sometimes 60 hours a week or more but he works hard too now, and I cant just expect him to drop everything.

On a side note, everything sexual or kink related is 100% in my control. He asks for every orgasm he has ever had - ever. I also beat the crap out of him on a regular basis (in a kinky consensual way) and he is not allowed to say "sorry honey I have a headache." He never has had a problem with that anyway. In the bedroom our dynamic is undeniably one sided, but I don't ignore him either. it works for us.

quote:

On a serious note ...

Akasha may describe this as lucky ... yet I think there is more.

When a man really falls in love, Mentally, Emotionally and physically ... he will do everything for Her.

And I will add, being younger in life makes a man even more willing; than after he ages.

But regardless of age, men can be wrapped around Your finger.


You just have to be really interested in doing so; than You re-make him to Your desires.

Its really simple.