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Collars,, and dogtags - 7/11/2006 8:13:38 PM   
allalone47


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 Was looking though some profiles today and saw something in the journal of one. She mad a statement about the how a slave is as prode of her collar as a survice man/woman is of there dog tags Well she has it partly right. the theng is she is incomplete. It isn't just ther dogtags but tht uniform adn flag and all that they mean and stand for. Ok To let you know she stated how proud of waring her collare and how prod they are at waring there dogtags. For them it doens't stop there it is the hole package. Think of this this way .The men and weman in are arm fources are just as prode of waring there hole unifoem as a slave is of waing there collar, dn just as put off when someone spits on it or burns the flag, or callsthem babbykillers or war crimanals. as a slave would be of someone cut up there collar or said they wee worn for being slaves or nuts or someother thing like that. Oh and if someon saids somethong about a slaves Master Mistress/ owner it is the same when to the military when soem calls ther boss a crimianl or saids they he lied. Oh and there boss is the Presidant.
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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/11/2006 9:32:01 PM   
Driver1961


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Umm,...... I agree, one's commitment to service is within one's mind.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/11/2006 10:05:20 PM   
jamesthehumanrug


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dear all alone ,you are absolutely right and ,you are not alone.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 3:40:50 AM   
bandit25


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What?  I'm sorry, I really don't understand what you saying.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 3:46:42 AM   
lapgirl


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Allalone,

Your point is well taken,. Slow down a bit and do a spell check on your posting, it will make it easier to read.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 3:53:41 AM   
Furr


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What kind of crap.  Think about dogtags.  A soldier wears them so that graves registration can identify the dead body.  When I was in the military and in My mind there was NO pride associated with them.
 

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 4:28:44 AM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Furr

What kind of crap.  Think about dogtags.  A soldier wears them so that graves registration can identify the dead body.  When I was in the military and in My mind there was NO pride associated with them.
 


Ohhh realy?? I have a largish number of friends both in ad out of the service including vets like me who were bloody proud of the dogtags and the uniform which they wore..However what would I know I just served in two armies and was nothing but a commissioned SF grunt...


< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/12/2006 4:29:39 AM >


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 4:54:36 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Furr

What kind of crap.  Think about dogtags.  A soldier wears them so that graves registration can identify the dead body.  When I was in the military and in My mind there was NO pride associated with them.
 


Those on the front line tend to put more pride in such things.... as do those like myself who grew up around people who have been on the front line and exibit such pride. My grandfather had his in a dish in grans display cabinate whilst his medals lounged in the back of a draw.... The tags where part of him, part of the unit, part of the pride. The medals where just bits of metal and ment more to others than to him, he had simply done his job.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 7/12/2006 5:32:42 AM >


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 5:25:38 AM   
liljoy


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i had a great sense on pride when i first put my dog tags on. That lasted until i was raped by millitary men and the army did nothing but protect them and cause me more pain and suffering.
i got out early and couldn't wait to rid myself of those things. i did keep the p38 for many years tho lol



quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Ohhh realy?? I have a largish number of friends both in ad out of the service including vets like me who were bloody proud of the dogtags and the uniform which they wore..However what would I know I just served in two armies and was nothing but a commissioned SF grunt...


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 6:15:36 AM   
IronBear


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lass that is really a sad thing to hear about. I've known of cases similar here in the Australian Military and more so in the RAN. There is no excuse and nothing can ever compensate you for what was done to you. 

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 11:09:53 AM   
allalone47


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spell check dosn't work dn this thing is dislexic

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 12:34:08 PM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allalone47

spell check dosn't work dn this thing is dislexic


Which is why I usually write in Word, make my corrections there mostly after spell checking and cut/paste to here....I still make errors but they show up when I do post hence edits in most of my posts. I'm also dyslexic.


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 12:49:24 PM   
Jorjia32


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liljoy I was sadden to read your post and it is the thing that bothers me the most about the military and to be honest many other things, they create an environment for such things and then do nothing about them when they occur.  Look at how many military wives lost their lives because the husbands wouldn't go for help because it would ruin their careers.  Why is the military so ignorant to the fact that you can't send people to war and expect them to come back unchanged.  And what a horrible way to separate those who can make it from those who can't.

Other examples of created situations, big business and production jobs that create repeative injuries, yet will tell you if you can't do they job find another one.
The priesthood who takes boys right as they enter puberty and tell them they can't have sex but never tell them how to handle their normal urges and a sexless life.  THEN when they do sin, they cast them out of the church, excuse me, isn't sin their business.
I stepped upon my soap box, sorry guys I get passionate about this and pissed.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 12:50:14 PM   
MadamShy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Furr

What kind of crap.  Think about dogtags.  A soldier wears them so that graves registration can identify the dead body.  When I was in the military and in My mind there was NO pride associated with them.
 


Those on the front line tend to put more pride in such things.... as do those like myself who grew up around people who have been on the front line and exibit such pride. My grandfather had his in a dish in grans display cabinate whilst his medals lounged in the back of a draw.... The tags where part of him, part of the unit, part of the pride. The medals where just bits of metal and ment more to others than to him, he had simply done his job.


I still have Pride of when I was in the  service

In My uniform ... in My tags and in My Country

I volenteered when I went in it May have Been MY job but I have pride on My work even if I'm laying stripes to someones back....


quote:

i had a great sense on pride when i first put my dog tags on. That lasted until i was raped by millitary men and the army did nothing but protect them and cause me more pain and suffering.
i got out early and couldn't wait to rid myself of those things. i did keep the p38 for many years tho lol



I was gang raped by My flight for being a girl and doing a mans job[was mech in flightline]

yes they covered it up

But I still Had Pride in My Country I still had Pride in what the tags Ment
I put hate where it is due... the people that raped Me .. and the Ones that let them

I will Not let them rule My Pride nor My life in My Mind the ones that did Me wrong will get theres as I do belive In equal bad to equal good.

I and only I am in charge of My feelings and actions and  I choose to live and no idiot's  in the service that chose to lay Me down and rape every orifice  I owned [some virgin] at the time will take it from Me I am sure they will get theres in the end..


I love My Country no Matter what idiot is running it LOL  hell I didn't vote for Him
gets off the soap box and grins picks up her fav riding crop

< Message edited by MadamShy -- 7/12/2006 12:51:19 PM >


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 2:04:23 PM   
allalone47


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liljoy. I am sorry about what happend to you. It shoodn't have and that is no excuse. It is the way of the military.It is called the UCMJ, and a mindset that goes with some of it to include that soem think that rank having its privlages also inludes soem realy bad things and it doesn't.  Oh and IronBear. I do go back and recheck what i send adn though some are my bad spelling however it also my computer. It has a problem it is dislixic.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 3:54:59 PM   
lanwolf


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I have to agree with most of the posts here. I was in the Reserves (like the US National Guard) in Canada. I have a great since of pride over wearing my tags, my uniform and even my grandfathers tags and my fathers tags which I have both sets. It is a pride in doing service for our country wither it is the uniform or a set of tags we display it’s a symbol of what we did for our Countries. When I am owned and in my collar to me that is a symbol of Who I serve and I wear it with just as much pride.

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 3:57:50 PM   
cynthiamarie


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Good points.

I never spent time in the service, though my sister did...and went through Hell for being female.

Society pays for the ones who do these things and "gets away with it"...I've known many people whose PTSD and panic attacks are so bad that they can't work, and live on SSI. 

quote:

The priesthood who takes boys right as they enter puberty and tell them they can't have sex but never tell them how to handle their normal urges and a sexless life.  THEN when they do sin, they cast them out of the church, excuse me, isn't sin their business.

Good point about priests...but if the "normal" sexual urges they couldn't handle concerned unmentionables, then I could understand having them removed from the priesthood.  Let's hope that someday they will decide to add this to their training.

quote:

Other examples of created situations, big business and production jobs that create repetive injuries, yet will tell you if you can't do they job find another one.

I fractured my back at my job over 20 years ago, and was told by work comp doctors that it was merely "extensive tendon and ligament damage".  I lost everything. 

The boxes of syrups for soft drinks were at least 40 lbs each, stacked on top of each other 6 or 8 high, and at least 4 rows wide, and the cardboard would bend.  There were no supporting racks, ones had to be pulled out when empty wherever they were in this stackup, and replaced.  The top curved forward one day and was going to fall on me, and I lunged to support it to protect myself, and fractured my upper back.  *This showed up on x-rays done in a hospital, years later, that were stronger than ones done in a doctor's office.*

Why should they bother to care?  They're not responsible for taking care of the problems they know their employment creates.  Reminds me of how many people treated indentured servants...used them up completely in the 7 years they were owned...because the temporary owner/employer didn't have to live with the results of his handiwork.

Okay, back on topic...yes, I see the parallel between how my sister *and other relatives I have who are in different branches of the armed forces* felt about being in the Army...her uniform, her country, and the flag...and how some feel about their collar and service and devotion to their Master or Mistress. 

I haven't felt that way about my country, until I started reading the books of Gor.  Amazing that our schools are supposed to teach us to be citizens, and we pledge our allegience to our flag daily in elementary school...but it took sci-fi books to make me FEEL the significance of what I had spent so many years merely...moving my lips as was expected of me, but not understanding.

quote:

I'm taking quotes from book two, Outlaw of Gor, by John Norman:

For the Gorean, though he seldom speaks of these things, a city is more than brick and marble, cylinders and bridges. It is not simply a place, a geographical location in which men have seen fit to build their dwellings, a collection of structures where they may most conveniently conduct their affairs.

The Gorean senses, or believes, that a city cannot be simply identified with its natural elements, which undergo their transformations even as do the cells of a human body.
For them a city is almost a living thing, or more than a living thing. It is an entity with a history, as stones and rivers do not have a history; it is an entity with a tradition, a heritage, customs, practices, character, intentions, hopes. When a Gorean says, for example, that he is of Ar, or Ko-ro-ba, he is doing a great deal more than informing you of his place of residence.

The Goreans generally, though there are exceptions, particularly the Caste of Initiates, do not believe in immortality. Accordingly, to be of a city is, in a sense, to have been a part of something less perishable than oneself, something divine in the sense of undying, Of course, as every Gorean knows, cities too are mortal, for cities can be destroyed as well as men. And this perhaps makes them love their cities the more, for they know that their city, like themselves, is subject to mortal termination.

quote:

And his main character, who had been taken to Gor and then returned to Earth for a time...was drunk and said this about Manhattan:

"This is a great city," said Cabot, "and yet it is not loved. "How many are there here who would die for this city? How many who would defend to the death its perimeters? How many who would submit to torture on its behalf?"

"This city is not loved," he said. "Or it would not be used as it is, kept as it is."

Each city state was in effect a country, and my sister feels this way about ours.  She would fight and die for our country even though she has been out of the Army for years.  (I would feel this way too...but I have a dependent child and am not a warrior.  )

For the last part, I can feel that this is what's wrong with my city...no pride, loyalty, love for it, no careful tending. 

Back to the comparison between a collar *what it represents to some*, and what others feel for their "home stone"...the pride, loyalty, commitment, love, and careful tending can be the same.


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/12/2006 6:26:26 PM   
IronBear


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Bloody well said!!!!

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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/13/2006 4:50:44 PM   
LotusSong


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 Why is the military so ignorant to the fact that you can't send people to war and expect them to come back unchanged.  And what a horrible way to separate those who can make it from those who can't.

I think it has something to do with their C Average "boss" and his No Special Interest Left Behind agenda. 

 
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.  Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and endangering the country,  It works the same in every country."        

           - Herman Goering     (Hitler's Reichmarschall at the Nuremberg Trials)


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RE: Collars,, and dogtags - 7/13/2006 5:39:40 PM   
Slipstreme


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Hearing about two people here getting raped by the military is giving me relief that I didnt join the military.

I thought about it for many years though, and it wasn't until I decided I didn't want the government to have that much control over my life that I decided not to join. However, I support the war efforts, even if I don't like the men responsible for them.

I know my girl is proud of her collar. She tells me all the time.

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