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Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 6:36:44 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		This thread was precipitated by another, where some churlish knacker has been running amok in an attempt to dismiss or diminish any reasonable expectation that there are, in fact, standards within WIITWD. I cannot speak for everyone, only myself, about standards and reasonable expectations.

Me, tha D:
Self Control- first and foremost on my list. My emotions are in check, I do not "fight or argue", I discuss and resolve. My ability to do so is intricately woven within our compatibility.

Discipline- I am responsible for my life, environment, well being (mental, physical, emotional, financial). I am quite disciplined in those aspects of my life and have no want nor need to shirk those off on someone. I am 100% responsible for all aspects of my life, and have no intentions of splitting those percentages. Anyone involved in my life needs to be the same. It will never be 50/50, 60/40, or any other such horse shit, it will always be my 100 and their 100. By the very nature of 100/100, you hit 50/50 by accident.

Ignorance- Yep, I am ignorant in regards to many things, and I do love finding more things that I am ignorant of. I can remedy my ignorance when faced with it. However, I have absolutely no tolerance for stupidity, and do not expect anyone involved with me to accept stupidity either.

Ownership- I will always own all aspects of my life. I own the responsibilities of my actions, inaction, errors, success, and failure. I wouldn't, couldn't, and shouldn't be placed in a position of authority over another if I were incapable of this.

Deferential- Yes, I am very deferential, and will always defer to one in possession of greater talent, skill, and/or knowledge. I have a large and in charge ego, but it isn't brittle and I am not stupid.

Communicative- I'm like a friggen gossip girl when it comes to communication in a dynamic. I want the dynamic to succeed, and to increase the odds of success, I need to know the good, bad, and ugly.

You, the /s

Mirroring the above will make a great dynamic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time for some I'm happy alone, happier in a functional relationship. Being happy alone precludes desperation, so it does require someone that is going to meet or exceed my needs, work within my wants, and never cross the line of my limits. Furthermore, being happy alone allows me to have "10 Tyrant Commandments" each having sub-comandments, and the baseball rule: three strikes and your ass is out of here forever!

Do I expect an /s to be of the same mind, have such firm lines... can I look at the above from the other side of it and accept it? Fuck yes! That is strength that gives me a drooling woody, because when I step up to bat, I DO NOT STRIKE OUT.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)
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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 7:37:58 AM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

You, the /s

Mirroring the above will make a great dynamic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I expect an /s to be of the same mind, have such firm lines... can I look at the above from the other side of it and accept it? Fuck yes!


My personal thoughts on "me" being a submissive (or partner in any type relationship) is, I don't feel I have any business being in a relationship if I don't hold the same standards for myself which are in line with what you mentioned and they are things I also expect in a Dom/partner.

I feel I have to first be the best I can possibly be alone, within myself, have control of myself, know who I am, what I want before I can be the best submissive/partner I can possibly be in a relationship. By saying "best submissive", I do NOT mean I'm the best of the best, I'm not IHH the super-sub, what I mean is I strive to be the best I can possibly be for me as a person first and by doing that, I can be my best for him.

Until the day my ashes are blowing in the wind, I'm a work in progress, our relationship is a work in progress, there's always more to learn, more to strive for, things in my life I can improve on and things in our relationship we can improve on.

Communication.....without good, open, honest communication, I don't see how a relationship can grow, strive and become a strong, healthy relationship.

I left out the drooling woody part because well, I don't have a woody. A juicy filled honey pot will have to do for me.




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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 7:56:09 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Tbh, when you want her to be totally in control of her own life, it seems to preclude any area that you can control. Or are you solely looking for bedroom submission?
Because if my life was so well run, then why would I be willing to allow anyone else to change anything in it?
I'm highly intelligent and knowledgeable in many areas yet there are others I cannot learn, nor do I wish to keep trying to. I'm willing to accept my limitations.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 8:15:32 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Tbh, when you want her to be totally in control of her own life, it seems to preclude any area that you can control. Or are you solely looking for bedroom submission?
Because if my life was so well run, then why would I be willing to allow anyone else to change anything in it?
I'm highly intelligent and knowledgeable in many areas yet there are others I cannot learn, nor do I wish to keep trying to. I'm willing to accept my limitations.


i'm not looking to mold a train wreck into the perfect Stepford /s, I'm looking for a compliment to my life, where my life is going, on my agenda and terms. What I can assure her of, is above, and having an expectation for her to have her shit together does not diminish control, it enhances it.

Acquiring a train-wrecked micro-managment nightmare from hell /s, is not a difficult feat... unless your a bigger mess than that /s... Having the good fortune of acquiring a /girl that is as above, is a blessing. We have a number of /girls on this site that are true blessings. They're intelligent, beautiful, and absolutely have their shit together, Blonderfluff being the poster child of those things. Any D lucky enough to have her submission is a man to envy, not because of those things, they are just the icing. She is in control of her life, as above, and looking to hand over that control.

Finding someone that mirrors me, and I may have, will make me a very happy camper. Should I be so lucky as to get on deck and take her submission as the plunder it is, my happy content will rival that of RS. I don't anticipate envy on his part, but a nod will do ;) Like Miss Fluff, she doesn't need anyone to control her life, but she will surrender it to the worthy D.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 10:05:28 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Personally, I am on board with E.T.s statement. I don't want a submissive who actually NEEDS control...needs her life straightened out, can't handle the pressure, is on a downward spiral...I want a submissive who has control and wants to relinquish that control. Knowing that she does so in the certainty that I'll take that control not to make her over, but to make the "us" that we can both want to be. The first one is looking for a white knight and me? I'm a good-hearted, sadistic bastard.

And E.T., you're right about the blonde one...great sense of humor too. And there ARE others on here that also fit that description well.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 10:46:29 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		everyone is responsible for every part of their own life. domination isnt about having to fix someone elses problems like any relationship it's about having someone you dont have to fight, someone on your side, so your strengths can feed each other. but then i dont believe anyone is broken. they've just only ever heard the bullshit and need to be given a chance to see an alternative. i would never give up on someone because of what was done to them, being there to watch them grow as people is worth the effort. plus sticking around for the spirals is fun too.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 10:57:30 AM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And E.T., you're right about the blonde one...great sense of humor too. And there ARE others on here that also fit that description well.



Aww, shucks Tyrant and CD...you're enough to make a girl blush...


Love ya both ....

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.



I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 10:57:52 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		It was expectations that eventually broke the back of my last marriage. The problem is, they were my expectations and not his and so when the little disappointments started to build up, they became overwhelming and I was filled with disappointment which eventually became resentment. If you asked me now what those expectations were, I wouldn’t be able to tell you; they really were that trivial.

The bones of my relationship are based on absolute love, total trust and a thorough compatibility. I would put my life before my partner and I know with absolute certainty he would do the same for me. I can’t say that we don’t have expectations of one another because everyone does, but they small in comparison to what they once were.

Before we met, we obviously had expectations of what we wanted in a partner. We both needed someone from the kink world, though neither of us had any real specifics apart from an understanding of each others dynamic.

We both wanted someone who was confident, sociable and welcoming, especially to our children from different partners.

I pride myself in being healthy and keeping fit. I’m a keen rock climber, horse rider, swimmer and cyclist. It was important that a potential partner was a fairly athletic type who enjoyed the great outdoors and had a love for at least one of my hobbies.

I think I face the world with enthusiasm and confidence. It was crucial my partner could do the same. I wanted a positive thinker, not a pessimist and oh boy, did I come up trumps in that department!

One thing I’ve never been much good at is resolving arguments. I used to be the one who fell silent and sulked for a few hours/days/weeks. Steve isn’t the sort of man to let a disagreement get the better of us. He’s incredibly diplomatic and so any disagreements are put to bed very quickly.

I didn’t want a man who was two faced. The sort of guy who would smile in peoples faces and talk about them behind their backs. What I didn’t expect was a man who would call a cunt a cunt to his face. I think he’s a bit too far the other way in that department but I love it that he doesn’t bitch stab people when they aren’t present.

Edited to change computability to compatibility

< Message edited by MariaB -- 9/19/2014 11:02:29 AM >

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 11:00:22 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oh sorry... were we talking specifically submissive and dominant expectations? If so, all of the above. Once those things were established, the rest would just fall naturally into place.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 11:02:32 AM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		To OP, aka Exiled, I have to say that my issue has always been the opposite. I'm too intelligent, too responsible, too ambitious, too independent, too free willed, too stubborn, too strong.
For this reason, I never expect my other to be able to live up to my standards but to simply try their best to be the best versions of themselves that they can. This has appeared in my life in a variety of ways, from being able to make me laugh, making me feel at ease, being a confidante and friend or just expressing an almost altruistic interest in my thoughtsand feelings.
Sometimes I like to blather, sometimes I want people to fuck off.
A person would know if I find them of interest because I spend my precious (and it is precious) time conversing with them, and not because there aren't any alternatives.
I find myself often disappointed in a lack of conviction in others. That is the very least a person should have to be excellent. I see through facades and pretenses too easily.
I dislike when my wishes are not acknowledged or deemed incorrect by those who know nothing at all about me, LITERALLY AT ALL. When really at the end of the day all I see is a sad creature screaming "I'M INSECURE!!!! I HAVE NO OTHER REASON TO DISLIKE YOU EXCEPT THAT YOU MAKE ME TAKE HARD LOOK AT MYSELF!"
I have had a number of well to do fellows try to own me, they hate the fact that I have always had the entrepreneurial spirit, and someone who is that insecure in me being able to detach seems so weak to me, among other things.
I am very uninspired by those who mold their opinions quite easily to the opinions of others without knowing their head from their ass. Just WEAK WEAK WEAK, this is my frustration. The weakness in others.
However, displays of loyalty and commitment and a willingness to trust, is something I value in those who are secure enough to accept that they might not be as smart, strong, pretty (yes, I went there) or as focused on self improvement as me.
I'm like a hammerhead shark after all. That's a lot to demand of another person. I'm not trying to be in competition with my other. Too many others try to make me participate in competitions I didn't volunteer for as is. I simply am my father's daughter.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/19/2014 2:03:42 PM   
RockaRolla


Posts: 1153
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		I've been called out more than once for stating the importance of negotiation before getting into a relationship, especially one with a D/s dynamic. I happen to think that's an important and more than reasonable expectation. But this is evidently wrong of me, according to some, because not all dynamics are the same and I shouldn't impose my will on them. To which I say, of course they're all different, why do you think negotiation is key?

But one thing I've noticed a lot of, and not just on these boards, is the idea that being on the /s side absolves you of responsibility should something go wrong. I'm not just talking about "My D violated my consent even though I didn't safeword" type deals, but "this isn't my problem, I was just doing what Master said" is another common refrain. Granted, there are instances where this type of thinking is valid - the /s was in subspace and the D did cross a line, for instance - but there are just as many where the thinking is just a cop-out. Owning your shit, specifically your side of the dynamic and your actions therein, is important.

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/20/2014 6:26:59 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Self Control- first and foremost on my list. My emotions are in check, I do not "fight or argue", I discuss and resolve. My ability to do so is intricately woven within our compatibility.
Discipline- I am responsible for my life, environment, well being (mental, physical, emotional, financial). I am quite disciplined in those aspects of my life and have no want nor need to shirk those off on someone. I am 100% responsible for all aspects of my life, and have no intentions of splitting those percentages. Anyone involved in my life needs to be the same. It will never be 50/50, 60/40, or any other such horse shit, it will always be my 100 and their 100. By the very nature of 100/100, you hit 50/50 by accident.
Ignorance- Yep, I am ignorant in regards to many things, and I do love finding more things that I am ignorant of. I can remedy my ignorance when faced with it. However, I have absolutely no tolerance for stupidity, and do not expect anyone involved with me to accept stupidity either.
Ownership- I will always own all aspects of my life. I own the responsibilities of my actions, inaction, errors, success, and failure. I wouldn't, couldn't, and shouldn't be placed in a position of authority over another if I were incapable of this.
Deferential- Yes, I am very deferential, and will always defer to one in possession of greater talent, skill, and/or knowledge. I have a large and in charge ego, but it isn't brittle and I am not stupid.
Communicative- I'm like a friggen gossip girl when it comes to communication in a dynamic. I want the dynamic to succeed, and to increase the odds of success, I need to know the good, bad, and ugly.


In any intimate interpersonal relationship, those six elements are important. If I may personalize these, not necessarily applicable to every D/s dynamic:

<INSERT>Love&Passion - Not one or the other, but a fusion of both. Love without Passion is like dutiful affection. That isn't good enough. I could get that from a real-life pet. Passion without Love is simply Lust, and Lust is not an exclusive attachment. Others could conceivably fill those same lustful needs.

Ownership+Loyalty=Commitment

Open Lines of Communication - This makes the difference between mediocrity and excellence.

Self-Control/Self-Discipline&Consistency - I expect my sub to exhibit the same degree of self-control and self-discipline that I do, wherever and whenever possible. Ceding to my authority does /=adoption. Inconsistency on either the D or the s side is a form of anarchy and will tear down any relationship instead of building it up.

Intelligence&Common Sense - Some people are too smart for their own good. Being clever is fine, but without common sense, sensitive perception, and intuition, a person can still be clueless about life and living a quality life.

Humility (goes along with being Deferential&Respectful) - Humility isn't just for submissives. A Dominant needs to be able to recognize his/her limitations and adapt accordingly; s/he cannot be too proud to admit mistakes, to learn from them, and to delegate his/her authority. (It helps to have a sense of humor and not take everything so seriously. ) Don't sweat the small stuff at the expense of the larger issues at stake in making or breaking your union.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/20/2014 7:35:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Apparently I wasn't clear. Sorry.

I'm not saying she should be a train wreck in need of micro management.

The opposite. I'm asking what benefit submission to you would bring her if her life is as well run as yours. If she's in total control of it and doesn't find that control tiring, as you don't. Then why would she want to submit to you if you don't bring anything of value. If you're basically equal, then why should she submit to you, why shouldn't you submit to her? Or continue in a power equal relationship?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/20/2014 7:38:22 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Because I don't need or want anyone that needs me. I want her to want me, not need me.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 5:21:49 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Because I don't need or want anyone that needs me. I want her to want me, not need me.

Jus sayin



It's amazing how those few words above say so much .... even on this side of the equation.


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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 7:42:14 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

But one thing I've noticed a lot of, and not just on these boards, is the idea that being on the /s side absolves you of responsibility should something go wrong. I'm not just talking about "My D violated my consent even though I didn't safeword" type deals, but "this isn't my problem, I was just doing what Master said" is another common refrain. Granted, there are instances where this type of thinking is valid - the /s was in subspace and the D did cross a line, for instance - but there are just as many where the thinking is just a cop-out. Owning your shit, specifically your side of the dynamic and your actions therein, is important.


A few months ago I would have agreed with you. And I even do still agree with you, but with only slight hesitation. I've really come to learn how, to some, surrendering oneself to another does actually mean absolving yourself of responsibility for your actions if you are doing their bidding.

Delete delete delete. LOL Too heavy to get into. Suffice to say I've started some heavy reading about ethics and moral responsibility to determine which side of the fence I'm on. I find it intensely interesting to consider. I only mention it because I find it interesting that I probably would have written your same exact words, and somewhere over the years here I probably did. And then something clicked, from out of nowhere, and hearing someone else's perspective suddenly made me realize the lack of depth in some of my own "submission."

I know (I think?) you're talking more about if something goes wrong in a scene and the submissive doesn't speak up and stop things. I definitely agree with you there. Personally, I wouldn't want to be with a man who would expect me to just allow bad things to happen. But your last line got me thinking about the broader application of absolving responsibility and putting it all on the Dominant. And, I'm having coffee on a lazy Sunday morning and feeling philosophical.


< Message edited by Kaliko -- 9/21/2014 7:50:28 AM >

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 7:48:41 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Because I don't need or want anyone that needs me. I want her to want me, not need me.

Jus sayin



I can handle my life well enough. From the outside, many people think I have my shit wrapped together quite nicely. But I know that I need to be with someone who is firm, who can give me direction. I get overwhelmed with how much needs to be done and then I have trouble prioritizing - because it's all important. It's sometimes stressful for me to feel that sense of being overwhelmed, and then I don't function as well as I should. I definitely need (not just want) someone who can help me focus. If I know I need to do this one thing, then I don't have to consider what to give my energy and attention to first. There is no question. Just do as he says. Thus, clarity.

This type of thing probably simply falls under the heading of "Being compatible," but I don't mind saying that I don't always have it all together, all the time, and a man with a more assertive personality is the type of man I need. And want. :)

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 9/21/2014 7:49:01 AM >

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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 7:56:10 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

Just do as he says. Thus, clarity.



There it is. I'm not looking to become a part of someone else's agenda. I have my own, and she is joining me to go where I am going.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 2:29:36 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not sure that's possible all the time. She is a different person with a different life, there are going to be times where her agenda must come first if her life is to continue in a happy and healthy manner.

If you aren't ever willing to put yours aside for the sake of her well being, then I can't imagine your relationship surviving too many speed bumps.

Not that I think you are as selfish and self centered as the way you're describing yourself now makes you appear. The opposite, I think you're a good and caring man. Which is why it seems so odd that you're insisting on something opposite to your authentic self.

Like Kaliko, I freely admit that I'm not always perfectly in control. And that my life runs better with him in charge. Because when he makes a decision, he puts my well being into the list of criteria. And I don't. I'll make the one that's better for everyone else no matter how badly it drains me. Although I know that life is better if you think of it as an airplane emergency, put the oxygen to your own face or you won't be able to put it on anyone else's, I have trouble putting that into practice. So, I need him.

But that doesn't translate into me needing just anyone. My brain can and does make decisions that my emotions are not on board with. And I was very careful to make sure he is the right one for me. Which is why we're still together 12 years later.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Reasonable Expectations - 9/21/2014 2:38:07 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Your assessment is true to your sig line.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 20
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