RE: Infrastructure Spending (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 11:40:05 AM)

the acids from gasoline combustions that come out the tailpipe certainly do contribute to the deterioration.





DomKen -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 11:42:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Sure, Ken. As they illustrated forcing through Obamacare, the Dems wouldn't do anything without getting bipartisan support... [8|]

Rocks and glass houses, kiddo, rocks and glass houses.

You mean the law they delayed for almost a year as they tried over and over again to find some compromise with cons? That is the law you're claiming as an example of one where the Democrats failed to seek bipartisan support? Again you do know we all lived through 2010 right?




mnottertail -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 11:54:40 AM)

Not to speak about the many bi-partisan meetings they had, over a very long time.

And look at all the money the nutsuckers wasted forcing thru dogshit bill after dogshit bill in the house, that would never be taken up by the Senate, because it is, (dare I repeat) DOGSHIT the nutsuckers were forcing down the throats of Americans, who didn't want it.

No, the nutsuckers only want to borrow and spend, and blame it on someone else.





Musicmystery -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 11:55:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I'm not sure you're aware of this, but the bulk of driving takes place with the use of gasoline.
Thought you should know.


But, it's not the gasoline that is the cause of the road damage, is it?

And, I'm not sure you're aware, but the amount of gasoline that is used to travel a mile seems to be going down, so the ratio between the amount of miles traveled on the roads vs. the amount of gasoline used is rising.

Thought you should know.


You have successfully passed Sanity as the biggest clown on this forum. Congratulations!

Perhaps, if you think really, really hard, you'll be able to figure out the connection between using gasoline in vehicles and wear and tear on the roads.

A lot of things other than driving cause wear and tear -- extremes of weather and snow plows in particular up here.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 12:03:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I'm not sure you're aware of this, but the bulk of driving takes place with the use of gasoline.
Thought you should know.

But, it's not the gasoline that is the cause of the road damage, is it?
And, I'm not sure you're aware, but the amount of gasoline that is used to travel a mile seems to be going down, so the ratio between the amount of miles traveled on the roads vs. the amount of gasoline used is rising.
Thought you should know.

You have successfully passed Sanity as the biggest clown on this forum. Congratulations!
Perhaps, if you think really, really hard, you'll be able to figure out the connection between using gasoline in vehicles and wear and tear on the roads.
A lot of things other than driving cause wear and tear -- extremes of weather and snow plows in particular up here.


I'm surprised at my latest "triumph."

I understand the relationship between gasoline use and wear and tear to roads. But, if we simply use taxes on gasoline to support maintenance for the wear and tear, then we aren't really taxing that which is causing the wear and tear. And, for those vehicles that don't use gasoline, they may not be paying their "fair share" for the wear and tear they are causing.

Extreme case, if every person in America switched to an all-electric vehicle for non commercial driving, only commercial vehicles will be paying the taxes, yet commercial vehicles aren't the only ones contributing to the wear and tear on the roads.

But, yeah, let's just tax gasoline and peg it to inflation. That'll solve everything. [8|]




mnottertail -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 12:14:18 PM)

Thats not quite true, since a great deal of licensing and excise taxes do partially go to the roads, or are supposed to. More at the state level usually, to be fair.




thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 1:29:41 PM)

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I'm surprised at my latest "triumph."

No one else is.

I understand the relationship between gasoline use and wear and tear to roads.

No you do not as you are about to demonstrate.


But, if we simply use taxes on gasoline to support maintenance for the wear and tear, then we aren't really taxing that which is causing the wear and tear.

In your ignorance you have hit gold.
Yet you are ignorant of it's value.



And, for those vehicles that don't use gasoline, they may not be paying their "fair share" for the wear and tear they are causing.

It is almost as if you had a clue but here in the next step we see your mindnumbing ignorance. The fact that you never actually do any research about what you are running your mouth about.

Extreme case, if every person in America switched to an all-electric vehicle for non commercial driving, only commercial vehicles will be paying the taxes, yet commercial vehicles aren't the only ones contributing to the wear and tear on the roads.

Actually they are. Had you the common sense of a stone you might have noticed that comercial vehicles typically are twenty times heavier than non comercial vehicles. Yet they do not have a footprint that is 20 times larger than a car. A few keystrokes to google could disabuse you of your mindnumbing ignorance.
We all appreciate your pratt-falling clown schtick no matter how phoquing dumb it is.


But, yeah, let's just tax gasoline and peg it to inflation. That'll solve everything. [8|]

Would it not be more equitable to charge those who damage the road the most to pay the most?[8|] or is that concept of "fairness" beyond you?Why is it your concept of fairness gets the korporatekockkissersofamerika off the hook for the damage they do to the infrastructure?






cloudboy -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 1:36:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No, they're not maintained, because the fat cat government cronies refuse to adequately fund them.

One major economic advantage the US has is its infrastructure. If we actually let it crumble, we'll lose that advantage.


This really should be a NO-BRAINER, but it's not. We've become complacent about it. Its much more riveting to engage in foreign adventures (for Presidents) than to do meat-and-potatoes work here at home. This is why Putin has become so mischievous, doing nationalistic shit boosts his rating.




thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 1:43:00 PM)

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The failed war on poverty is part of the problem.

The failed war in the sandbox
The failed war in the balkins
The failed war in somalia
The failed war in nicaragua
The failed war in viet nam
The failed war in korea
The list goes on but the question is how much did each cost, and who made the money?



We are paying too many people too much money to not work.

Bill gates,ted turner adm,cargil,the cops,congress and people like you.

Beside that, our politicians have invented far too many other ways to blow our money down bottomless shit holes, and


we are now far beyond broke.
It must be your contributions that allow me to cash my welfare cheque, thanx ehh[:D]





thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 1:55:58 PM)


ORIGINAL: Gauge

If you want to talk about where the waste is then let's discuss the defense spending that is out of control, and the fucking wars and shit we have been fighting for the last decade or more.

When in the last 235 years have we not been at war someplace for no other reason than to take their shit and fuck their women?



Let's talk about corporate welfare and the waste of taxpayers money.

When have you ever been able to engage a member of the korporatekockkissersofamerika in a discussion that might lead to their being responsible for their actions?


Let's talk about the Pentagon never being audited as mandated by Federal law because no one there wants to get into that clusterfuck and find out where there is a ton of waste.


How else can we go around the world and intimidate folk? We sell them our surplus shit then claim that they are a danger to their neighbors and go bomb the shit out of the stuff we sold them.


But please, let's stop programs for the poor and downtrodden because that is fucking wasteful.

It is called an easy target[8|]





thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 1:58:12 PM)


ORIGINAL: Sanity

There used to be a stigma attached to taking handouts, now its the norm in many households

I am sure we all have a friend who is a bear who points out the ethical and moral shortcommings of their fellow bears.





DaddySatyr -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 2:12:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I'm not sure you're aware of this, but the bulk of driving takes place with the use of gasoline.
Thought you should know.

But, it's not the gasoline that is the cause of the road damage, is it?
And, I'm not sure you're aware, but the amount of gasoline that is used to travel a mile seems to be going down, so the ratio between the amount of miles traveled on the roads vs. the amount of gasoline used is rising.
Thought you should know.

You have successfully passed Sanity as the biggest clown on this forum. Congratulations!
Perhaps, if you think really, really hard, you'll be able to figure out the connection between using gasoline in vehicles and wear and tear on the roads.
A lot of things other than driving cause wear and tear -- extremes of weather and snow plows in particular up here.


I'm surprised at my latest "triumph."

I understand the relationship between gasoline use and wear and tear to roads. But, if we simply use taxes on gasoline to support maintenance for the wear and tear, then we aren't really taxing that which is causing the wear and tear. And, for those vehicles that don't use gasoline, they may not be paying their "fair share" for the wear and tear they are causing.

Extreme case, if every person in America switched to an all-electric vehicle for non commercial driving, only commercial vehicles will be paying the taxes, yet commercial vehicles aren't the only ones contributing to the wear and tear on the roads.

But, yeah, let's just tax gasoline and peg it to inflation. That'll solve everything. [8|]



We should tax the weather (and the snowplows; most of which run on diesel fuel, around here).

I think, if we want to worry about rebuilding the infrastructure (and we should) then we should take a page out of the democrats playbook but, we should do it, correctly:

A few years back, our failure-in-chief said: "You didn't build that". Most of the intelligent people know he was trying to take a shot at entrepreneurialism but, he tried to back-peddle, saying he was talking about infrastructure. If we accept that (and I don't), he was right (but for the wrong reason).

Most of the damage to our roads can be traced to weather (we can't tax that) and larger vehicles (trucks). I would support raising taxes on diesel fuel or commercial truck registration.

Further, we need to tax the "citizens" who are using those trucks to get their goods delivered. We can kill two birds with one stone, here, also. I'm not very good with math but, there has to be a certain number that we can raise taxes (for infrastructure repair/rebuilding) and offer some companies a break that will still ensure they pay more for the repairs but, not bleed them to death. At the same time, we can help working Americans.

For a lot of different reasons (but Obummercare being a big one), it is very difficult for Americans to find and maintain full-time employment. Of course it's because of corporate greed but let's see:

If we need to increase taxes by 4 percent to cover costs of infrastructure, we could jack up their corporate taxes by (I am NOT claiming that these numbers work out. I'm giving an example) ... 6 percent and then offer a 2 percent discount if 80 percent of their workforce is based in this country and 75 percent are full-time employees.

We still get our 4% and if the companies want to save 2%, they hire more people full-time which helps the American worker. Everyone (except the scumbag politicians) feels like they won a little and lost a little. That's the result of a successful negotiation.







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?




Musicmystery -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 2:15:53 PM)

Yeah, I was laughing at him too, thinking let's just tax the weather.

As far as won a little lost a little -- that's how politics USED to work, back in 1980. Now, everything is all or nothing...so we get nothing.

But in the case of maintenance, nothing turns to entropy, subtracting from what we do have.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 3:26:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
We should tax the weather (and the snowplows; most of which run on diesel fuel, around here).
I think, if we want to worry about rebuilding the infrastructure (and we should) then we should take a page out of the democrats playbook but, we should do it, correctly:
A few years back, our failure-in-chief said: "You didn't build that". Most of the intelligent people know he was trying to take a shot at entrepreneurialism but, he tried to back-peddle, saying he was talking about infrastructure. If we accept that (and I don't), he was right (but for the wrong reason).
Most of the damage to our roads can be traced to weather (we can't tax that) and larger vehicles (trucks). I would support raising taxes on diesel fuel or commercial truck registration.
Further, we need to tax the "citizens" who are using those trucks to get their goods delivered. We can kill two birds with one stone, here, also. I'm not very good with math but, there has to be a certain number that we can raise taxes (for infrastructure repair/rebuilding) and offer some companies a break that will still ensure they pay more for the repairs but, not bleed them to death. At the same time, we can help working Americans.
For a lot of different reasons (but Obummercare being a big one), it is very difficult for Americans to find and maintain full-time employment. Of course it's because of corporate greed but let's see:
If we need to increase taxes by 4 percent to cover costs of infrastructure, we could jack up their corporate taxes by (I am NOT claiming that these numbers work out. I'm giving an example) ... 6 percent and then offer a 2 percent discount if 80 percent of their workforce is based in this country and 75 percent are full-time employees.
We still get our 4% and if the companies want to save 2%, they hire more people full-time which helps the American worker. Everyone (except the scumbag politicians) feels like they won a little and lost a little. That's the result of a successful negotiation.

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Yeah, I was laughing at him too, thinking let's just tax the weather.
As far as won a little lost a little -- that's how politics USED to work, back in 1980. Now, everything is all or nothing...so we get nothing.
But in the case of maintenance, nothing turns to entropy, subtracting from what we do have.


I think both of you have missed what I was trying to say. I don't believe taxing gas is the right way to go about stuff. 20 years ago, the company I worked for had 3 straight trucks and none ran on gasoline. One was diesel, but the other two were propane. If we up the taxes on propane, we'll also be taxing grillers and people who rely on propane for residential heating/cooking fuel to pay for roads. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

There may be merit in a "mileage" tax, though, with rates differing according to vehicle type. That way, a commercial truck will pay more than a family car, which would be "fair" considering the increased wear and tear from a commercial truck). Plus, that means a Honda Civic (for instance) with a gas engine pays the same rate as a Civic with a Hybrid engine, a Nat.Gas engine or a Hydrogen Fuel engine. If owners of all those Hondas all drove the same number of miles, they would all pay the same tax, which would be more akin to being "fair," as the wear and tear on the roads would be pretty much the same. With a gasoline tax, that isn't the case.

Isn't it better to do things the right way, rather than just to do anything so you can say you're doing something?




thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 3:41:43 PM)


ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think both of you have missed what I was trying to say. I don't believe taxing gas is the right way to go about stuff. 20 years ago, the company I worked for had 3 straight trucks and none ran on gasoline. One was diesel, but the other two were propane. If we up the taxes on propane, we'll also be taxing grillers and people who rely on propane for residential heating/cooking fuel to pay for roads. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Only to a moron who crafts his arguement without knowledge of the real world. In the real world motorfuel propane has a motorfuel tax on it and non highway propane does not.[8|]






thompsonx -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 4:09:27 PM)


ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

the art of having a 3-day bender in Vegas...

This is drinking responsibly?[8|]


For normal people, moderate alcohol consumption has a number of positive health benefits, assuming they are capable of drinking responsibly.

Clearly this does not apply to those who know the art of a three day bender in vegas.



Sucks to be you, doesn't it?






DaddySatyr -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 5:24:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think both of you have missed what I was trying to say. I don't believe taxing gas is the right way to go about stuff. 20 years ago, the company I worked for had 3 straight trucks and none ran on gasoline. One was diesel, but the other two were propane. If we up the taxes on propane, we'll also be taxing grillers and people who rely on propane for residential heating/cooking fuel to pay for roads. That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

There may be merit in a "mileage" tax, though, with rates differing according to vehicle type. That way, a commercial truck will pay more than a family car, which would be "fair" considering the increased wear and tear from a commercial truck). Plus, that means a Honda Civic (for instance) with a gas engine pays the same rate as a Civic with a Hybrid engine, a Nat.Gas engine or a Hydrogen Fuel engine. If owners of all those Hondas all drove the same number of miles, they would all pay the same tax, which would be more akin to being "fair," as the wear and tear on the roads would be pretty much the same. With a gasoline tax, that isn't the case.

Isn't it better to do things the right way, rather than just to do anything so you can say you're doing something?



I think you mistook me.

I was just having some fun with the whole "tax the weather" thing. As for not wishing to tax gasoline: did you read my whole post? We, essentially agree that taxing gasoline is not the answer.

Firstly, cars already pay a "road use" tax at the gas pump (and those taxes go up, all the time). Secondly, compared to forty ton trucks, that little Prius isn't likely to do a whole lot of damage to a well-constructed highway. For that matter; a one-and-a-half ton pick won't really compare all that heavily, either.

You bring up propane and that's valid so, perhaps something to do with the idea that I kind of glossed over; registration fees for those forty ton monsters that are helping corporate America (who's screwing us, prison style) to maximize their profits.

I like my idea (obviously) because I think it will solve two problems in one fell swoop.







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?




TheHeretic -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 6:00:46 PM)

Muse, just an FYI to you and DesideriScuri - the vehicles that really put a pounding on our roads and bridges nationwide don't run on gasoline. 18 wheelers operate on diesel fuel almost exclusively.

Taxing gasoline to cover road wear and tear is becoming obsolete. Hybrid vehicles use less fuel, but are pretty damn heavy because of those batteries. Electrics are getting a complete pass. So would something like the compressed air powered cars that were a thing to talk about a few years back. We are going to need a better way to collect appropriate fees.

In the meantime, maybe we should jack up the fuel tax on the premium/higher octane gas required in many luxury and high performance cars. Just a thought.




Sanity -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 6:57:34 PM)


They'll go with mandatory GPS transponders for taxing vehicle miles soon

And they'll monitor more than mileage, too.




Sanity -> RE: Infrastructure Spending (9/24/2014 7:05:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


You have successfully passed Sanity as the biggest clown on this forum. Congratulations!

Perhaps, if you think really, really hard, you'll be able to figure out the connection between using gasoline in vehicles and wear and tear on the roads.

A lot of things other than driving cause wear and tear -- extremes of weather and snow plows in particular up here.


Rent free space




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