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Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are a w... - 9/30/2014 8:58:43 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-04/u-s-seen-as-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/12/uk-iea-outlook-idUKBRE9AB0N920131112

Couple of things, the world interfering with the markets, and the stock and futures markets interfering with markets.

Forget supply and demand, it was a hallucination.
Forget the nutsucker drill baby drill, and gas prices will go down if we let them devastate the environment.

The nutsuckers have no clothes.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 9:30:48 AM   
cloudboy


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I am not following.

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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 10:04:41 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We were told that gas would go down, supply and demand by the nutsuckers. It didnt happen.

We are the number one producer now. No major changes.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 10:33:56 AM   
epiphiny43


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Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		We're selling more outside the country and importing less (Balance of Payments, Baby!) and US refinery capacity is the same. More production, same supply of Product in our market. (Most Keystone oil is already earmarked for export.) No plans I know about for more refineries, local opposition (NIMBY) trumps everyone's desire for cheaper fuel. Big Oil doesn't make money by building huge plants to sell gasoline at lower prices/profit?
Much of the fracking boom is in gas, not crude. And in new areas where supply and transport infrastructure is expensive to create and maintain.
The Tar Sands oil from Canada is expensive to extract and more to transport. It's only profitable if the price of a barrel stays high. Like much 'new' production. Canada's environmental damage will astound people as it moves down watershed. Research for cleaner processes are the Great Lakes only hope?

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 9/30/2014 10:35:12 AM >

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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 11:11:07 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Our natural gas is being burned off, not sold.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 1:00:53 PM   
cloudboy


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Here is what is not surprising:

Politicians (right wingers especially) will say anything to get elected and energize voters.

Here is what is surprising:

So many gullible voters who believe the lies and distortions.

I was looking back on an old thread where five-six posters were trying to convince Daddysadyr that Obama was not a "Socialist," and he'd hear nothing of it. It was a startling display of willful, bullheaded ignorance.

When I think of right wing hysteria -- I have to remember that it's a constant state of mind when the Democrats are in the White House. The sky was falling under Clinton for eight years according to them.

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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 4:28:31 PM   
deathtothepixies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


trying to convince Daddysadyr


well he is a man who said Mandela was a racist and a black supremacist....nowt to do with economics but it gives you a feel of what his mind set is

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The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."


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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 5:10:18 PM   
Edwynn


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Whoever else doesn't understand S/D, the oil companies have always understood it very well, and acted accordingly.

You can pump or frack all you want, but nobody can use any of it with out a refinery making it into what can actually be used in engines and furnaces.

The 300 US refineries that the oil companies shut down from 1980 to 2000 (oftentimes buying them for just that purpose) did not come about for lack of demand, as high enough gas and jet fuel prices proved, but was rather an intentional reduction in supply to insure that prices never fell.

[The Tryanny of Oil, Antonia Juhatz]


And the US or UK didn't invade or overthrow governments in the ME so they could pump more oil, half the time it was because they were pissed that Iran or Libya (in the '50s) were pumping too much and increasing supply. Tsk tsk.

[The Control of Oil, John Malcolm Blair]

And the Enron traders didn't order power plants in Cali to shut down because of lack of demand, in the middle of a very hot summer, it was to intentionally reduce supply and rack up the price of both energy spot and futures prices.

If demand/supply didn't mean squat, then what the heck is all that about?

BTW, only about 2-3% of all futures contracts, whether in oil or other commodities, or currencies, result in actual delivery of product. After the Enron traders got done killing old people in California, they went to oil futures trading, just so you know. And the demand that causes oil futures to rise is from the demand for oil futures contracts, and it is no longer a question that futures prices can affect spot prices.

So yeah, they use that S/D thing anywhere and any way they can. Works like a charm for them.


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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 6:20:02 PM   
Edwynn


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I misspelled Ms. Juhasz's wonderful name.

That is: Antonia Juhasz. She who wrote that excellent book.


You haz now been warned about this author.

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RE: Why most economists (and freemarket communists) are... - 9/30/2014 10:10:49 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

If demand/supply didn't mean squat, then what the heck is all that about?

BTW, only about 2-3% of all futures contracts, whether in oil or other commodities, or currencies, result in actual delivery of product. After the Enron traders got done killing old people in California, they went to oil futures trading, just so you know. And the demand that causes oil futures to rise is from the demand for oil futures contracts, and it is no longer a question that futures prices can affect spot prices.

So yeah, they use that S/D thing anywhere and any way they can. Works like a charm for them.


Well the spot price is the price of actually acquiring the underlying commodity or security. A futures price is a prediction of what that price might be at a particular time...i.e, the expiration of the contract. This is the price arrived at as a matter of speculation then based on a prediction or speculation of supply and demand.

There is often arbitrage trading on both via profiting on any spread and near the end of a contract, prices tend to draw closer.

As for gas prices, they are totally manipulated by exporting all they can. Can't export oil with the lone special exception of Alaskan oil Japan. (I believe) Thus the US has for a while now, been the world's leading exporter of gasoline along with high exportation of diesel and other refined products.

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