RE: Pushing limits?

RE: Pushing limits? (Full Version)

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shiftyw -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/6/2014 9:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw Perhaps I am misunderstanding you- but what you consider "selfish" I consider "self preservation" in many cases. Your sentence implies, and while not direct advice- you're on a board where anyone can see it- that subs/slaves/bottoms are not allowed to feel they need to keep themselves safe. It puts pressure on many reading this to do things because it seems "cool" and "high and mighty"- or as you said- out of insecurity and wanting to fit in so badly. If someone has a diagnosed injury, or mental illness, and they go against their doctors orders to prove to this community they aren't damaged- do you not feel that is a bad situation all around? I think you're misjudging a whole group of folks. I take issue with THAT. Not who you date, your lack of understanding about why one might set a limit, and the narrow scope you set about it- is what I am trying to discuss with you. If I am misunderstanding your post- and you feel there are more reasons someone would set a limit, legitimate reasons, for their own personal safety- by all means, I'm sorry. Well I will try to put some perspective on this if I can. I, myself, have been threw a slew of transitions and evolutions in my life. Meaning, it's to the point where when I look at myself at 16, it's like looking at someone else's life. I would hope a D will never dare damage a sub. I feel like the Johari window was a good depiction of where a D should be with his/ her sub. Able to gauge (used your name [:D]) both the known and unknown. I have discovered parts of me I never knew existed through loving someone and sometimes that happens. If you love someone enough you are willing to compromise and even change completely. For better or worse, hopefully it is a beneficial and learning experience which all experiences good and bad are supposed to be. Difficult experiences can do two things, break us or make us better. I would say, self examination is very important, at least annually, "who am I now, who was I last year, have I grown as a person?" These questions should always be asked. I understand this was the angle RedMagic1 was approaching but maybe it was misunderstood. D/s and everything in between should strive for some level of personal growth, it's how we better ourselves overall. I might say today "I will never skydive!" and I have but who knows what the me 5 years in the making has to say about that. Just some food for thought. Again, not my point. My point is simply... is undiagnosed PTSD or selfishness really the only reasons someone puts up a limit? Is selfishness, when it comes to self preservation, really a BAD thing? I know that's horribly unsubbly of me to say...but thats really what I'm getting at. Is selflessness, when personal safety and quality of life is TRULY on the line (i.e.- humiliation play will make someone want to kill themselves) really the smartest choice? Isn't ultimately accepting that perhaps there are lines you just aren't willing to cross with someone, and ultimately losing their affection or potential partnership, knowing that you can't please them wholly- less selfish? I guess I just see this as a "twue sub" thing- and it bothers me. I think a sub is not selfish and it does not imply an undiagnosed mental disorder- because they have sexual limits. We've discussed a whole lot of "personal responsibility" on this board- I think standing up for your hard limits isn't selfish- its personally responsible. Like I said, perhaps I misunderstood him- if that is the case- I'm sorry.

GoddessManko -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/6/2014 9:59:27 PM)
LOL!

RedMagic1 -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 6:31:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw My point is simply... is undiagnosed PTSD or selfishness really the only reasons someone puts up a limit? I didn't say "undiagnosed." I said, "untreated." If someone is using a coping mechanism of "I can't do X" for reasons of self-preservation, they are managing an as-yet-unresolved issue. That's quite a bit different from being resolved and in the past. You're arguing against standard sex advice. For example, Dan Savage recommends GGG -- good, giving and game. Game, in this context, means willing to try pretty much anything. I'm sure Dan Savage would say that people should respect medical advice. But right out of the gate you are saying, "My doctor tells me I can't be GGG." I am saying this will affect your ability to choose a partner. And why shouldn't it? Don't you think people deserve partners who are GGG, even if they are dominant and male? I don't use words like "good" and "bad" when analyzing things, as I think moralizing is pointless. But selfish as opposed to giving, damaged as opposed to game, sure, I think those are useful criteria. As a final note, you asked a few posts ago if I would be willing to do something with a man despite being heterosexual. The answer is that yes of course I would, given the right circumstances. If I were in love with a woman, we had been together for a while, and it was on her bucket list to see me suck a cock, then sure. It's wouldn't cause me to vanish in a rainbow-colored puff of smoke. I don't understand how that was even a debating point, much less something you brought up alongside murder or incest. People do things they don't care for all the time, because it's good for the relationship. Again, it's part of being a mature adult, part of being able to care for something that is larger than just oneself.

Greta75 -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 6:53:07 AM)
I am totally with you Shifty, but RedMagic is the type of dom who believes people are damage and self-centred if they cannot conquer their fears and give up their limits for their partners. So that is his beliefs and he finds one who will give up limits for him. And I guess end of the day, it's all about compatibility. Like your limits pushed? Find a dom who likes pushing limits? Hate your limits pushed? Don't be with a dom who expects you to sacrifice all your limits for him. I guess it's just that simple. There is no right or wrong way, but only the right kink partner.

LittleGirlHeart -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 7:52:15 AM)
Has never had a lack of dating prospects, nor fuck opportunities cuz of the limits i have.

InHisHeart -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 1:37:14 PM)
~FR I'm someone that wants to be pushed beyond what I know I'm comfortable with and what I know I can handle. I want him to challenge me, push me past my comfort zone especially if it's something I know he wants but I have inhibitions or fears about it. I wouldn't be with a Dom that didn't want to ever push me. I also know that if it's something I can't get through for whatever reason that he'll respect that and stop. There are a lot of things over the years I wasn't comfortable with, didn't feel I'd be able to handle them, didn't think I'd get any pleasure from it but found I was wrong. Even if the only pleasure I got from it was seeing how much pleasure he got from it then it's all cool. I do have hard limits and those are things I will not do, they are not things that might change in the future. They've been hard limits of mine forever and they're not going to change. If a partner can't accept that, then he's not for me. My hard limits are things we're on the same page with so it's never been an issue with him and it wasn't an issue with my former Dom/husband. Scat is one of them, it's not going to happen, ever. Swinging, gang banging, they're not going to happen. I would fuck another woman if he wanted me to, I'm not opposed to another woman but I would not fuck another man being in a relationship. Being pushed beyond my comfort zone is something I want in all parts of my life and I push myself all the time to go beyond what I feel I'm capable of. Most times it does work, sometimes it doesn't work out and that's ok but the way I look at it is, I don't know until I try and there are times I (or he) has to push me to give it a try.

smileforme50 -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 2:51:09 PM)
FR~~ I hear so much about submissive's having their limits pushed. But how do Dominants get their limits pushed? I don't like the idea of having my limits pushed because for me it would be a waste. Doing something simply for the sake of doing it to push my limits makes no sense to me. I either WANT to do something or I DON'T. For me there is no "I want to do this but i can't so I need someone to give me a push". If I need someone to "push" me to do something....then I don't want to do it to begin with. And if I'm forced to do it, then I'm going to come out of it feeling very resentful....not feeling glad that I "overcame some hurdle". And I don't think that makes me any less submissive either.

Gauge -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 6:54:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 But how do Dominants get their limits pushed? Every time we incapacitate our submissive and therefore take over responsibility for their well being. Not a limit, but nothing to be merely scoffed at either. [:)]

Blonderfluff -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 7:03:45 PM)
This is a FR, to no one in particular. If I don't WANT to, but I do it because he's told me, or asked me, THAT is submission. To ME. If I only did what I wanted, well, that's not really submitting my will to him, is it? In fact, it would pretty much defeat the entire purpose. Limits are NOT things that are merely "I dont want to's..." or "I don't liked that". They are things or actions which I KNOW to be either damaging or abhorrent. I don't make something a limit, lightly. I think looong and hard. But once it IS? It's just that...a limit.

Blonderfluff -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 7:06:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 But how do Dominants get their limits pushed? Every time we incapacitate our submissive and therefore take over responsibility for their well being. Not a limit, but nothing to be merely scoffed at either. [:)] Said so well, in so few words. It is a MASSIVE responsibility.

smileforme50 -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/7/2014 8:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff This is a FR, to no one in particular. If I don't WANT to, but I do it because he's told me, or asked me, THAT is submission. To ME. If I only did what I wanted, well, that's not really submitting my will to him, is it? In fact, it would pretty much defeat the entire purpose. Limits are NOT things that are merely "I dont want to's..." or "I don't liked that". They are things or actions which I KNOW to be either damaging or abhorrent. I don't make something a limit, lightly. I think looong and hard. But once it IS? It's just that...a limit. I agree with you on your definition of submssion. If the only things my Master wants me to do are things that I want to do, then that isn't submission. But I still don't like what I call the "because it's there" philosophy. I've known guys who have said that they don't really have any interested in a particular activity....they don't really care one way or another if their submissive did a, b or c, but the minute they hear that their submissive really hates the idea of doing "b"....then they will make it a goal to get her to do it. On the other hand, I can still feel submissive, and controlled and obedient and still get great pleasure from those feelings even if I am doing things for the Dominant that don't require me to push any limits.

InHisHeart -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/8/2014 1:30:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 I've known guys who have said that they don't really have any interested in a particular activity....they don't really care one way or another if their submissive did a, b or c, but the minute they hear that their submissive really hates the idea of doing "b"....then they will make it a goal to get her to do it. I agree, if he's not into something and didn't care one way or the other if the sub did it but pushes her just because she hates it, that to me is BS and I can't say I've ever been in that position. Things that I have done and do that I don't want are things that he does want and gets pleasure from. Pushing is something that should be talked about from the get-go to make sure they're compatible with it. As I said previously, I wouldn't want to be with a Dom that was fine only doing things I want or fine staying within my comfort zone and never pushing me past it.

GoddessManko -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/8/2014 4:47:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw Again, not my point. My point is simply... is undiagnosed PTSD or selfishness really the only reasons someone puts up a limit? Is selfishness, when it comes to self preservation, really a BAD thing? I know that's horribly unsubbly of me to say...but thats really what I'm getting at. Is selflessness, when personal safety and quality of life is TRULY on the line (i.e.- humiliation play will make someone want to kill themselves) really the smartest choice? Isn't ultimately accepting that perhaps there are lines you just aren't willing to cross with someone, and ultimately losing their affection or potential partnership, knowing that you can't please them wholly- less selfish? I guess I just see this as a "twue sub" thing- and it bothers me. I think a sub is not selfish and it does not imply an undiagnosed mental disorder- because they have sexual limits. We've discussed a whole lot of "personal responsibility" on this board- I think standing up for your hard limits isn't selfish- its personally responsible. Like I said, perhaps I misunderstood him- if that is the case- I'm sorry. OK, I respect the views and opinions of everyone thus far. I will address my personal issue with the word "never". But first, you're right, and my apologies if RedMagic1's assertion was that someone with a hard limit might have undiagnosed PTSD, we all know that's silly. Some people hate onions and are we to say PTSD is the root cause? Of course not. Some subs are selfish, some Dominants are selfish. On these forums we often hear one side of a 3 sided story so we can only make judgements based on that, ergo the chances of judgements being flawed are there. Here is my issue, tackling the OP as a singular case, and this is not to minimize her feelings about her hard limit. I do not know why she dislikes this particular act, perhaps a bad experience, perhaps it's just plain "gross". But I see it this way. If a virgin tells me "I will never have sex" because the mere thought of the act repulses her, I would say "how do you know that?" Yes, maybe 1, 2 even 5 years or more down the line you may not want to, but how do you know this particular thing will be a limit for you now and forever especially if it's not incredibly taboo. Unless it is from something that might "trigger" a bad feeling for her or do harm in some way, I do not see the harm 3 or 4 years into the relationship hypothetically, her D says once she is comfortable, happy and in a solid foundation of a relationship, (exaggeration time wise), "how about we go slow, a small butt plus". She can say "no", and he'll drop it. Or she can say "OK, I'll try", and decide once and for all it isn't for her. If he goes very slowly, I don't understand how it would be earth shattering if he firstly asks her permission because it IS a HL, and if it isn't indeed the result of a "bad experience" and just completely out of the question, or even just personal preference. When I was 16, as stated on another forum, I wanted to become a nun. Do you think I ever envisioned in my wildest, most insane dreams I'd be the person I am today? Of course not. I don't even recognize that girl within myself anymore, AT ALL. And it might have been a conscious change at first but now being transitory is so natural for me that I don't even try to analyze it, I merely accept it and it keeps me happy no matter the circumstance (relatively). I enjoy change, I enjoy self improvement, I enjoy PROGRESS. Some people abstain, some modify. It is all very individual. Ergo my issue with the word "never". Some one who is comfortable with routine and dislikes change would hate it. Some people will NEVER like onions no matter how much you mask the taste of it. But it's all very relative.

shiftyw -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/8/2014 5:32:20 PM)
I agree with all that Manko. I just think his assumptions are silly. He initially implied that he only likes no limits slaves, and then when I pointed out that implication was like WELL OF COURSE I'M NOT INTO INCEST- which is exactly what I was pointing at. I don't mind who he wants to be with, or doesn't, thats his own shit, but to presume those two reasons, or that a touch of "selfishness" when it comes to self preservation is a terribly unsubly thing to do, is silly.

MRtr33s -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 3:06:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart Has never had a lack of dating prospects, nor fuck opportunities cuz of the limits i have. If a girl wont swallow for me its done And to me if im serious with a girl i want no limits simply because i want to know she would do anything to please me.....

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 3:39:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MRtr33s quote: ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart Has never had a lack of dating prospects, nor fuck opportunities cuz of the limits i have. If a girl wont swallow for me its done And to me if im serious with a girl i want no limits simply because i want to know she would do anything to please me..... 911: what's your emergency? MRt33s: I'm chained to the bed, and need help! 911: chained to the bed? MRt33s: Yes, my no limits slave chained me to the bed, gave me a Vaseline enema, and called a biker gang to come over. 911: did you say no limits slave? MRt33s: yes. 911: Sir, obviously she has no limits, WTF did you think was going to happen? MRt33s: but... But... 911: this number is for emergencies only (click... Dial tone)

InHisHeart -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 5:07:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MRtr33s And to me if im serious with a girl i want no limits simply because i want to know she would do anything to please me..... No limits and do anything to please you. So you want a mindless puppet, someone who takes no responsibility for herself and has no regard for her own physical and emotional safety and well-being. Every time I hear someone say they want a "no limits" sub, I can't help but think they'd be quite happy with one of these chicks Realdoll.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 5:10:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InHisHeart quote: ORIGINAL: MRtr33s And to me if im serious with a girl i want no limits simply because i want to know she would do anything to please me..... No limits and do anything to please you. So you want a mindless puppet, someone who takes no responsibility for herself and has no regard for her own physical and emotional safety and well-being. Every time I hear someone say they want a "no limits" sub, I can't help but think they'd be quite happy with one of these chicks Realdoll. I see someone has been ogling my Amazon wish list. I'll take three, since you're shopping.

InHisHeart -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 5:25:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: InHisHeart quote: ORIGINAL: MRtr33s And to me if im serious with a girl i want no limits simply because i want to know she would do anything to please me..... No limits and do anything to please you. So you want a mindless puppet, someone who takes no responsibility for herself and has no regard for her own physical and emotional safety and well-being. Every time I hear someone say they want a "no limits" sub, I can't help but think they'd be quite happy with one of these chicks Realdoll. I see someone has been ogling my Amazon wish list. I'll take three, since you're shopping. I'll get right on that. Do you have preferences for head hair color/style, eye color, tittie size, pussy grooming (or lack of pussy grooming), etc. or I can order all interchangeable parts so you don't get bored.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Pushing limits? (10/9/2014 5:31:56 AM)
Nope, just need them to have no limits. That's the golden goose, after all ;)

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