RE: What makes You choose a sub?

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AAkasha -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 12:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Capability. There are the intangibles of course that just get into the mix: chemistry, lust, immediate attraction, whatever. But what gains my attention and keeps me very excited and intrigued is capability and competence. In SOMETHING. If a man is good at something and he is proud, confident about it, that gets my juices going. This is why I always tell subs to drop the 'lowly' approach, to try not to be so much of a wallflower, and to refine their skills and hobbies and be proud of something. I think women in general are attracted to competence and capability - even if it comes in a package that is somewhat shy. Akasha Thank You AAkasha ... Your point is one I have been thinking about ... The issue in my mind: How does one present himself as Competent and Capable ... yet still introduce himself as submissive? In my mind, that is a contradiction that seems difficult to resolve? Suggestions? Talk about your hobbies with passionate. Expose her to your hobbies and let her see how good you are at them.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 12:48:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 ETA: Oh, and for your edification.... "It's pronounced "VROOick"" "How do you pronounce "Bhruic"? I looked around a bit and the best I can figure is it's pronounced "Brock" Source: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic38026.html I missed this earlier. Thanks for your unnecessary link to someone's question on a forum. In the Gaelic language, the consonant combination Bh makes the sound "v". The slightest bit of intellectual conscientiousness would have quickly led you to the right answer. I'm sure you a a fine fellow, but I don't think I will be relying on you for any "edification". Cheers. Mayhap that your knowledge is a tad lacking??? The name "Bhruic" is of Gaelic origin, ostensibly Scottish, meaning 'Badger'. Meaning: Badger. Gender: Male Origin: Scottisch Similar sound boys: Bruce, Bryce, Boris, Brooks, Brock, Braigh Similar sound girls: Bregje, Brooke, Brisha, Brechje, Brisia, Brook Categories: Baby boy names with one syllable - Scottish names Source: http://www.cute-baby-names.com/name/Bhruic So to tell everyone it is pronounced "VROOick" would make it a two-syllable name, not one, and would be incorrect. Also, 'Bh' is an aspirated consonant and is frequently pronounced "w" in the broad sense. Only when it is a slender consonant and only in very few exceptions would the 'v' sound be used when it occurs other than at the end of a word. Source: http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html ETA: I cross-checked and verified this info with - 1) My daughter's boyfriend who is Scottish (traced back at least 20 generations, all of whom are pure Scott). 2) Old work colleague who bears the name 'Percy' and are of pure Scottish descent for centuries (go ahead, look them up).

Moderator3 -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 2:41:36 PM)
Now that the name calling/insults and chest pounding have taken place, perhaps we could get to the topic without them. This is a good topic and I would love to see it continue without the TOS and guideline issues.

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 3:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 ETA: Oh, and for your edification.... "It's pronounced "VROOick"" "How do you pronounce "Bhruic"? I looked around a bit and the best I can figure is it's pronounced "Brock" Source: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic38026.html I missed this earlier. Thanks for your unnecessary link to someone's question on a forum. In the Gaelic language, the consonant combination Bh makes the sound "v". The slightest bit of intellectual conscientiousness would have quickly led you to the right answer. I'm sure you a a fine fellow, but I don't think I will be relying on you for any "edification". Cheers. Mayhap that your knowledge is a tad lacking??? The name "Bhruic" is of Gaelic origin, ostensibly Scottish, meaning 'Badger'. Meaning: Badger. Gender: Male Origin: Scottisch Similar sound boys: Bruce, Bryce, Boris, Brooks, Brock, Braigh Similar sound girls: Bregje, Brooke, Brisha, Brechje, Brisia, Brook Categories: Baby boy names with one syllable - Scottish names Source: http://www.cute-baby-names.com/name/Bhruic So to tell everyone it is pronounced "VROOick" would make it a two-syllable name, not one, and would be incorrect. Also, 'Bh' is an aspirated consonant and is frequently pronounced "w" in the broad sense. Only when it is a slender consonant and only in very few exceptions would the 'v' sound be used when it occurs other than at the end of a word. Source: http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html ETA: I cross-checked and verified this info with - 1) My daughter's boyfriend who is Scottish (traced back at least 20 generations, all of whom are pure Scott). 2) Old work colleague who bears the name 'Percy' and are of pure Scottish descent for centuries (go ahead, look them up). Not to dispute the obvious authority of www.cute-baby-names.com... but a quick trip to the much less well know "wikipedia" offers: As is generally the case in Irish orthography, the value of a consonant letter depends on what the closest vowel letter is: if the nearest vowel letter is one of a, o, or u, the consonant is considered "broad", while if the nearest vowel letter is one of e or i, the consonant in considered "slender". Broad bh and mh stand in general for the phoneme /w/ (including its allophone [vˠ]), while slender bh and mh stand for /vʲ/ (see Irish phonology for a full explanation of these symbols). Not to mention that my Grandmother is Irish, my partner is Irish, and many of my friends are Irish born, and they all seem to be under the impression that Bh in this instance is pronounced "v". The same is true in Scottish Gaelic. But if it is important to your sense of self worth, I will defer to your expertise in this matter.

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 3:24:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 ...I'm not sure how this fits in to the feminist movement... It was just a tongue in cheek jest that people who claim that traditional ideas about gender roles are of no consequence in society, must not think there is any reason for the feminist movement.

missalphasubtoy -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 5:11:57 PM)
98% vanilla connection. Kink interests play no role whatsoever in how I find a man attractive/suitable. I am looking for someone I can share my life with in some way so we must have things in common and plenty to talk about. Before I even agree to meet someone I need to know what they are about, essentially.

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 8:19:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missalphasubtoy 98% vanilla connection. Kink interests play no role whatsoever in how I find a man attractive/suitable. I am looking for someone I can share my life with in some way so we must have things in common and plenty to talk about. Before I even agree to meet someone I need to know what they are about, essentially. That all sounds very reasonable, and a not uncommon approach, but... Can you really separate kink interests from the rest of who we are? Lets say you find a man attractive/suitable, who you can share your life with and have much in common to talk about, but he is hard in to a kink that does not interest you, or maybe even offends you somehow. What then? Wouldn't kink interests suddenly play a role in his suitability? Not sure what you mean by "98% vanilla connection". Are you saying you are 98% vanilla?

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 9:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic This just seems like an acknowledgement of reality to me, not an opinion. If there are people who disagree that that reality exists, then I have to admit we are living in two different worlds then... and in their world there is apparently no need whatsoever for the feminist movement. I think I may be misunderstanding you. The feminist movement is not due to necessarily how "society" or "men" treat or view women, it is about the systematic and legalized discrimination women have to face merely because of gender. How do you imagine this systematic and legalized discrimination of women came about, if not due to the way that society and men view and treat women, at least traditionally? Are you suggesting that women came up with the laws and systems that oppress them? If so, then they have no one to blame but themselves, and us guys can stop taking crap about it. ;-) quote: Forgive me but is what you ascertain to be "unsexy" a meager, timid man? Because a lot of the lunk heads in my gym are not my type either, not by a long shot. I like a man who is unassuming and self aware. He has a quiet sort of strength, he holds strong to his convictions. I really am not quite connecting the dots as to your disposition of the matter. You are forgiven... but I must point out that I never said "unsexy". In fact... once again... I have not once in this thread made a value judgement about any personal qualities that anyone could possibly have, or any kinks that anyone could possibly have, or suggested in any way that anyone should adhere to any stereotype, or behave in any proscribed way. My question was utterly academic, and simply acknowledged the existence of certain social realities of gender stereotyping (unjust and abhorrent as they may be) that not only very obviously continue to exist in society, but have been written about ad nauseam by social academics for decades! And the nature of my question was simply how people deal with, or view, these issues in the framework of a Female led relationship, or in Female dominant relationships in general. So far, the answer seems to be that people don't. The best I can tell, people either claim not to acknowledge the gender stereotypes, or integrate them in to their lives without awareness. I think it is wonderful that people make the effort not to place value on traditional gender stereotypes, and are vigilant not to act on them... but in this thread people seem to be claiming that they do not even exist. I make every effort not to value traditional gender roles as well, and not act on them... but like a tiny stone in my shoe, I am still always aware that they are there... that there is a life time of social programming and influence about gender roles that is ever trying to impinge on my consciousness... not just from my upbringing, but from every corner of society, in media, sports, politics, education... everywhere... to this day. To be vigilant in correcting a social injustice you have to look squarely at it, acknowledge its existence and dissect why it is wrong. You can't just pretend it doesn't exist. It's like Stephen Colbert's joke about literally not being able to see colour. He is satirizing excessively politically correct thought, and thereby warning of the unintentional damage it sometimes engenders... when simply saying the right words stands in place of - and in the way of - actual understanding and enlightenment.

GoddessManko -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/20/2014 11:34:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic How do you imagine this systematic and legalized discrimination of women came about, if not due to the way that society and men view and treat women, at least traditionally? Are you suggesting that women came up with the laws and systems that oppress them? If so, then they have no one to blame but themselves, and us guys can stop taking crap about it. ;-) OK, I rescind on my apology. freedomdwarf was right, LOL. Did you skip history class? Women's Suffrage is only but a few decades old and women have become ICONIC. What I must wonder is why there are so many incompetent males in this world if indeed they actually are held to a higher regard. Ah yes, because many people are not that bright, and their perceptions are supposed to matter to more intelligent beings because... Oh and speaking of the male gender, let's look at the stats, 90% of those in prison are male...hmmm...is this all part of the "males do it better" strategy? Because I'm afraid it's falling flat. If you think coming up with laws only to break them is supposed to make a gender somehow the "leader" or "trailblazer" of the species, then I'm sorry, that is quite...LOL. YOU are the one asking us about why we choose to date submissive males, I find them to be by in large extremely perceptive of the value of their female counterparts. We are different and that's a good thing in my bird's eye view. Most men I know are weak for one single thing, WOMEN. quote: You are forgiven... but I must point out that I never said "unsexy". You said "unattractive", same thing in my book. To-may-toe, to-mah-toe. quote: In fact... once again... I have not once in this thread made a value judgement about any personal qualities that anyone could possibly have, or any kinks that anyone could possibly have, or suggested in any way that anyone should adhere to any stereotype, or behave in any proscribed way. You questioned the attraction to a particular type of man, which is NOT academic. Some people are turned on by lumber. Why not question that instead? My question was utterly academic, and simply acknowledged the existence of certain social realities of gender stereotyping (unjust and abhorrent as they may be) that not only very obviously continue to exist in society, but have been written about ad nauseam by social academics for decades! And the nature of my question was simply how people deal with, or view, these issues in the framework of a Female led relationship, or in Female dominant relationships in general. You questioned the attraction to a particular type of man, which is NOT academic. Some people are turned on by lumber. Why not question that instead? Who gives a damn about stereotypes except inbreds? I mean really, what evolved person actually subscribes to those or should even care? WHAT IS YOUR POINT? is my question. Many men who aren't uncouth understand that it's ALWAYS and ALWAYS "ladies first", even when there was an alleged "patriarchal" society. Don't kid yourself into believing that women weren't still fundamentally important to making a relationship WORK, and that still exists today. Puny brained laws enabling gender discrimination have nothing to do with it. quote: So far, the answer seems to be that people don't. The best I can tell, people either claim not to acknowledge the gender stereotypes, or integrate them in to their lives without awareness. OR maybe they're smart enough to not give a damn? Ever cross your mind? quote: I think it is wonderful that people make the effort not to place value on traditional gender stereotypes, and are vigilant not to act on them... but in this thread people seem to be claiming that they do not even exist. The hilarious thing is no one even said that, you're the one who keeps somehow insisting we should care, and we don't. quote: I make every effort not to value traditional gender roles as well, and not act on them... but like a tiny stone in my shoe, I am still always aware that they are there... that there is a life time of social programming and influence about gender roles that is ever trying to impinge on my consciousness... not just from my upbringing, but from every corner of society, in media, sports, politics, education... everywhere... to this day. That's completely untrue but maybe in your world that seems to be the case, my condolences. quote: To be vigilant in correcting a social injustice you have to look squarely at it, acknowledge its existence and dissect why it is wrong. You can't just pretend it doesn't exist. How about not giving small minded people an audience for starters? quote: It's like Stephen Colbert's joke about literally not being able to see colour. He is satirizing excessively politically correct thought, and thereby warning of the unintentional damage it sometimes engenders... when simply saying the right words stands in place of - and in the way of - actual understanding and enlightenment. Where on this side of the greenwich meridian do you see stereotypes tolerated? They're not, but always going to be stupid people. What exactly do you expect us to do about it? And my bolded part of your point pretty much encompasses this bogus argument you're trying to present. [8\|]

Wickad -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/21/2014 1:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic I tend to agree that the question was poorly put... and too vague. But it implies a question that interests me as well. I have always felt that, in general, the social formula tends to run to women favoring men who are strong in character, if not in body. Particularly for Lifestyle Dommes... I have always wondered what the appeal of a submissive man was to a Dominant woman. In vanilla relationships, women will often lose respect for a man who is not confident and assertive. How does this play out in Female dominant relationships? Still a vagueish and complicated question, I know. This seems to be the crux of the problem I have with this thread and poster. There is an assumption that submissive men lack confidence and assertiveness. There is an implication that submissive men cannot be assertive or confident. This could not be further from the truth. Granted, some submissive men are not assertive or confident ... just like all other men. Do some people find these men attractive? I would think so as just like vanilla guys who fall into this category they often find mates and have happy, love filled lives. What Dominant women want (leaving out the lesbians here) in a man is ... the same thing, for the most part, that vanilla women want in a man. Dominant women are women first and thus are just as complicated and diverse as any other grouping you'd like to put women into. Some like tall guys and others like short. Some like dark hair and others like blondes. If you'd like to know what a woman finds attractive the best way to figure that out is to ask her ... not post to a group hoping to find the magick bullet. ... and why is it that guys post this same question over and over? Are they just looking for the 'recipe' so they can fake it 'till the make it? How about you guys simply be yourselves and start treating Dominant women like people first. You might even find that this leads to wonderful, long-term, stable relationships where no one is trying to live up to a fantasy that exists only to sell you crap (ie: media image/porn image). Wickad

Zonie63 -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/21/2014 6:56:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wickad ... and why is it that guys post this same question over and over? Are they just looking for the 'recipe' so they can fake it 'till the make it? How about you guys simply be yourselves and start treating Dominant women like people first. You might even find that this leads to wonderful, long-term, stable relationships where no one is trying to live up to a fantasy that exists only to sell you crap (ie: media image/porn image). It's probably due to the plethora of misinformation and mixed messages out there - from a variety of sources (and not necessarily just from media/porn imagery, although that's a major factor). When I first opened this account I currently have, I recall a thread here which asked dominant men if they have contempt for submissive males. While the responses were, more or less, a mixed bag, I got the very distinct impression that there were more than a few kinky folks (mainly in the dom male/fem sub sphere) who really didn't think too much of male submission (even when it's not the HNG/porn-addled variety). Just the very idea of male submission was a severe turn-off to a lot of people. I've also found this to be much the same in the vanilla world as well. All the other countless factors and components which make a man what he is all get reduced to a single common denominator.

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/21/2014 8:14:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wickad quote: ORIGINAL: Bhruic I tend to agree that the question was poorly put... and too vague. But it implies a question that interests me as well. I have always felt that, in general, the social formula tends to run to women favoring men who are strong in character, if not in body. Particularly for Lifestyle Dommes... I have always wondered what the appeal of a submissive man was to a Dominant woman. In vanilla relationships, women will often lose respect for a man who is not confident and assertive. How does this play out in Female dominant relationships? Still a vagueish and complicated question, I know. This seems to be the crux of the problem I have with this thread and poster. There is an assumption that submissive men lack confidence and assertiveness. There is an implication that submissive men cannot be assertive or confident. This could not be further from the truth. Not quite... there is an assumption that men who lack confidence and assertiveness are submissive, not the other way around. quote: Granted, some submissive men are not assertive or confident Yes!... these are the ones my original question refers to. quote: ... just like all other men. Do some people find these men attractive? I would think so as just like vanilla guys who fall into this category they often find mates and have happy, love filled lives. I presumed they were found attractive by some dominant women also... and I was curious how that dynamic worked. quote: What Dominant women want (leaving out the lesbians here) in a man is ... the same thing, for the most part, that vanilla women want in a man. All dominant women want the same thing? quote: Dominant women are women first and thus are just as complicated and diverse as any other grouping you'd like to put women into. Isn`t it you who is putting them in the "grouping" of women? They are women first, you say... what does THAT mean, amongst people who cannot see gender stereotypes? I was assuming that women are "people" first and that what they want from a relationship should not be assumed from traditional gender stereotypes. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if a woman was attracted to a man who defies traditional male gender stereotypes, that she was likely a woman who defied traditional gender stereotypes as well... and I was interested to learn more about that dynamic. quote: Some like tall guys and others like short. Some like dark hair and others like blondes. If you'd like to know what a woman finds attractive the best way to figure that out is to ask her ... not post to a group hoping to find the magick bullet. I already know what women who are attracted to ME find attractive about ME, and vis versa. I was curious about men who have a completely different personality from mine, and how the dynamic of their relationships work. If I knew a couple in my real life who had such a relationship, I would of course simply ask them. I think you will find that it is not considered inappropriate to ask people questions about how their lifestyle relationships work in these groups. I understand it is pretty much what these groups are for. quote: ... and why is it that guys post this same question over and over? Are they just looking for the 'recipe' so they can fake it 'till the make it? How about you guys simply be yourselves and start treating Dominant women like people first. You might even find that this leads to wonderful, long-term, stable relationships where no one is trying to live up to a fantasy that exists only to sell you crap (ie: media image/porn image). Wickad I think you misjudge who I am. I am not looking for a female dominant. I am a dominant male in a 24/7 D/s relationship with a loving partner. I am not trying to fake anything, or looking for any "magic bullet". The question was academic. People seem to think that I endorse traditional gender stereotypes... I don't. But we all know the stereotypes, and so they tend to be the familiar point of comparison from which we understand other peoples' ( and our own) unique and diverse personalities.

Bhruic -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/21/2014 8:26:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko Where on this side of the greenwich meridian do you see stereotypes tolerated? ... Everywhere... but that is not the point. You somehow understand me to be saying the exact opposite of what I am saying. I don't think I have ever before failed so utterly to communicate my meaning. I am at a loss.

missalphasubtoy -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/22/2014 5:17:56 PM)
I won't date down from vanilla, is what I am saying. I have a lot of interests in art and culture and I am well-traveled and I live in a nice area. I need someone who is on my intellectual level, who lives nearby and not in the suburbs and is attractive, within a reasonable age and single. That is not easy to find, even in New York. If I can't have a conversation with someone or if a person is remotely uneducated or uninterested in culture, I have no interest in them. I am only turned on by successful, attractive men. Kink is negotiable, compatibility isn't.

HalifaxSubRuthD -> RE: What makes You choose a sub? (10/30/2014 8:10:55 AM)
this ought to be interesting...

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