RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/7/2014 12:10:30 AM

MalcolmNathaniel

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As a dyed in the wool grammar pedant I would like to say that this conversation is out of my pay grade, There are too many colloquial variants to sort out.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/7/2014 1:40:00 AM

dreamysubmale

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This is the LAPD, lay down your weapon and come out with your hands up. Seen (heard that in a movie once)

Well, who am i to say anything in this post. English happens to be my second language

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/7/2014 5:00:30 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"Yesterday, I lay down in the sun"

Another of the problems is that 'lay' is often followed by 'down'. So it sounds like 'I laid down'.

It would be correct to say "yesterday I went to lay down" as you can use "lay" as the past tense of "lie"

I would start by teaching them to distinguish between "gas and petrol" and in some cases, arse from elbow.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/7/2014 5:15:41 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"Yesterday, I lay down in the sun"

Another of the problems is that 'lay' is often followed by 'down'. So it sounds like 'I laid down'.

It would be correct to say "yesterday I went to lay down" as you can use "lay" as the past tense of "lie"

I would start by teaching them to distinguish between "gas and petrol" and in some cases, arse from elbow.

Only if you were making a quilt.

You're using the infinitive for "lie" which is "to lie" the verb is "went"

At ten, I went to lie down. I lay down just after ten.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/7/2014 8:26:09 PM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Right, the rules on usage of these are an obstacle to a great many (even native-English speaking) people. But they're potentially even harder if they differ from one side of the Atlantic to the other. I've been reading and hearing the words of Americans recently and have noticed that they'll frequently use constructions such as:

'I think I'll go and lay down for a while'.
'I was laying on the bed'

Is this considered grammatically correct in the USA/Canada?

I don't think it's technically correct, but it's a relatively minor thing and doesn't interfere with understanding. It's just like when people say "who" when it should be "whom." Or the contraction "ain't." It's not correct, but it's part of the language anyway.

I don't see why it would be that much of an obstacle. I don't see any obvious barrier to communication, since it's pretty clear what is meant.

A bigger obstacle I've noticed, at least in comparing languages across the Atlantic, is word choice (e.g. "gas"/"petrol", "wrench"/"spanner", etc.). I think I've gotten somewhat used to British word choice, although some words did throw me at first. Another word that seems to create an obstacle in communication: "Football."

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/8/2014 2:41:44 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

I don't think it's technically correct, but it's a relatively minor thing and doesn't interfere with understanding.

True. It's one of those things that doesn't cause confusion in comprehension. At the same time, because it's an absolute sod to get right it'll probably come to be accepted as 'proper English' eventually, anyway.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/8/2014 6:27:48 AM

GoddessManko

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FR, Personally I find it amusing when our friends across the pond cannot tell the difference between lbs and kgs... I know you guys are used to using the metric system though so I take that into consideration. I do however chuckle a bit when I see a fellow who is 6'3 and 95 lbs. Bit more obvious and blaring error there.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/8/2014 6:35:24 AM

GoddessManko

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OK, so I was teasing. I think this is important to note; But that trick works only with the present-tense forms: people can also lay if they reclined at some time in the past. Also, this is incorrect; They use lay when they should use lie, as in the sentence “I am going to lay down and rest.” Instead, they should say “I am going to lie down.”
This is cited from this site. Correct use of Lay and Lie.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/8/2014 7:31:19 AM

ExiledTyrant

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Jeebus, peon! This is a ridiculous debate, all we need to know is:

Is she my steady lay?

Or

Is she my steady lie?

I mean, the grammar really isn't important to me, hit'en it is.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/8/2014 9:27:23 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

FR, Personally I find it amusing when our friends across the pond cannot tell the difference between lbs and kgs... I know you guys are used to using the metric system though so I take that into consideration. I do however chuckle a bit when I see a fellow who is 6'3 and 95 lbs. Bit more obvious and blaring error there.

Most of us will use a mixture of metric and imperial. I'll usually think of people's heights in terms of feet and inches, though I'll think of, say, room sizes, in metres. I still think mostly in terms of stones and pounds when it comes to people's weight. I only think in kilos at the gym.

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/9/2014 5:54:08 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"Yesterday, I lay down in the sun"

Another of the problems is that 'lay' is often followed by 'down'. So it sounds like 'I laid down'.

It would be correct to say "yesterday I went to lay down" as you can use "lay" as the past tense of "lie"

I would start by teaching them to distinguish between "gas and petrol" and in some cases, arse from elbow.

Only if you were making a quilt.

You're using the infinitive for "lie" which is "to lie" the verb is "went"

At ten, I went to lie down. I lay down just after ten.

So then after all that, would it be "I lied on the sofa for two hours", or "I lay on the sofa for two hours"? Or maybe; "I lied on the sofa to rest. I lay there for two hours" or should it be either "lied" or "lay" in both cases? Or should the verbs be be switched in this latter example?

In any case, this is an instance where the past perfect tense is much easier to figure out than the simple past tense.

"He then arose from the sofa whence he had lain".

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/10/2014 6:43:41 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Jeebus, peon! This is a ridiculous debate, all we need to know is:

Is she my steady lay?

Or

Is she my steady lie?

I mean, the grammar really isn't important to me, hit'en it is.

The two not uncommonly go together . . .

Sonnet 138
~ Billy Shakespeare

When my love swears that she is made of truth,
I do believe her though I know she lies,
That she might think me some untutored youth,
Unlearned in the world's false subtleties.
Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
Although she knows my days are past the best,
Simply I credit her false-speaking tongue:
On both sides thus is simple truth suppressed:
But wherefore says she not she is unjust?
And wherefore say not I that I am old?
O! love's best habit is in seeming trust,
And age in love, loves not to have years told:
Therefore I lie with her, and she with me,
And in our faults by lies we flattered be.

Sonnet 137

Thou blind fool, Love, what dost thou to mine eyes,
That they behold, and see not what they see?
They know what beauty is, see where it lies,
Yet what the best is take the worst to be.
If eyes, corrupt by over-partial looks,
Be anchored in the bay where all men ride,
Why of eyes' falsehood hast thou forged hooks,
Whereto the judgment of my heart is tied?
Why should my heart think that a several plot,
Which my heart knows the wide world's common place?
Or mine eyes, seeing this, say this is not,
To put fair truth upon so foul a face?
In things right true my heart and eyes have erred,
And to this false plague are they now transferred.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/10/2014 6:47:23 AM >

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RE: 'Lay' and 'lie'. - 10/11/2014 7:50:53 AM

MercTech

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A hen will lay an egg while the farmer lies for a nap.

These days the most common grammatical mistake, at least on the net, seems to be not understanding the difference in lose and loose. But I have to grin at the mental videos at comments like "She's a real looser"

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