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Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/8/2014 6:33:44 PM

Marc2b

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This is awesomely interesting.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/8/2014 7:04:39 PM

Gauge

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Nature in action. Amazing.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/11/2014 8:10:49 AM

MercTech

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One thing was left out of his historical timeline.. the overgrazing damage occurred after the National Park Service was forbidden to grant hunting permits any more.

You need an apex predator for a viable ecosystem. For 50 years men filled that niche. Then it became politically incorrect for man to cull the oversize herds in national lands and the population explosion of herbivores damaged a lot of ecology. Damaged Yellowstone so much they had to import wolves from Canada to rebalance things

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/11/2014 3:26:30 PM

DesFIP

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I was confused about the rabbits though. I always thought everything ate rabbits, wolves as well as coyote.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/11/2014 4:32:41 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

You need an apex predator for a viable ecosystem. For 50 years men filled that niche.

From the video, though, it seems clear that human hunters wouldn't have had anything like the same beneficial ecological effect as these lupine hunters. Besides, a lot of fat blokes with rifles in 4X4s aren't as interesting as wolves, nor as good to photograph.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/11/2014 8:10:43 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
One thing was left out of his historical timeline.. the overgrazing damage occurred after the National Park Service was forbidden to grant hunting permits any more.

You need an apex predator for a viable ecosystem. For 50 years men filled that niche. Then it became politically incorrect for man to cull the oversize herds in national lands and the population explosion of herbivores damaged a lot of ecology. Damaged Yellowstone so much they had to import wolves from Canada to rebalance things

Excuse me, but what a crock.

The over grazing occurred because the ranchers had shot the wolves to extinction in that region, so the elk had no impetus to keep on the move. We only started importing the wolves from Canada once an understanding had been reached with modern day ranchers.

quote:

For 50 years men filled that niche.

Right. White men, you obviously mean. So then the whole of the US western region was barren from over grazing for millennia until the white man came along and shot a few elk, for their 50 years of fame and glory. While the indigenous folks here for thousands of years prior to that ecological disaster just sat there and scratched their noses and said "Well, whatta we do about all this barren terrain?", "I dunno, just wait for whitey, I guess."

All whitey did was shoot the wolves and the buffalo and the natives to near extinction, all of them.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/11/2014 8:29:19 PM >

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/11/2014 8:26:27 PM

Sanity

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Dont let your dog wander around Yellowstone, or in many of the mountainous areas and even in the foothills of the five state region surrounding Yellowstone

I also read a news article a while back about how these very large and powerful non-native Canadian wolves are decimating the grizzly population, perhaps I can find that article and post a link

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/12/2014 12:02:48 PM

MercTech

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Don't confuse the wholesale slaughter of buffalo herds in the 1800s with sound forestry management by culling herds of herbivores. You need an apex predator for balance and it doesn't matter if the balancing weight is a pack of wolves or bubba hunter and his pals.

What does make a difference is well meaning ignorance removing apex predation causing suffering to animals left to starve due to overpopulation. Too often people who only know animals as bambi and thumper don't realize that controlled hunting of large herbivores is necessary.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/12/2014 10:16:19 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

Don't confuse the wholesale slaughter of buffalo herds in the 1800s with sound forestry management by culling herds of herbivores.

The confusion is all yours, I had nothing to do with it. And nature conducted forestry management for 3 billion years before gunpowder and shopping malls came along to interfere with it.

quote:

You need an apex predator for balance and it doesn't matter if the balancing weight is a pack of wolves or bubba hunter and his pals.

The apex predator is what bubba and his twelve-pack and his pals extinguished in this case. So I think it's clear that nature has a clue, and bubba clearly does not.

quote:

What does make a difference is well meaning ignorance removing apex predation causing suffering to animals left to starve due to overpopulation.

That's exactly what bubba did, remove the 'apex' component that nature had in place for eons. And there was nothing in the least "well meaning" about it, though the ignorance was well in abundance.

quote:

Too often people who only know animals as bambi and thumper don't realize that controlled hunting of large herbivores is necessary.

Too often, people who only know animals as something to shoot at after they've had a few have no notion whatsoever of controlled anything.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/12/2014 11:24:06 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

This is awesomely interesting.

Wonderful.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/13/2014 5:12:50 AM

Sanity

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Does it actually matter if it's not true?

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/13/2014 10:09:12 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Does it actually matter if it's not true?

That was also quite interesting - and plausible.

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/13/2014 12:13:08 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Does it actually matter if it's not true?

That was also quite interesting - and plausible.

What?!?!?!?

You mean a 5 minute YouTube video didn't capture the full depth and complexity of an environmental concept? I'm shocked!

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/13/2014 1:35:50 PM

PeonForHer

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Well, nor did Sanity's link of one page of text.

You never know, TH, people might even go away, ponder, research a bit more, that sort of thing ....

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/14/2014 4:48:26 AM

Greta75

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The wolves are sooo cute! I like to believe they magically did all that to improve Yellowstone!

Canada has gorgeous looking wolves!!!

It's so weird thinking of it with wolves, since isn't Yellowstone like the place in the Yogi Bear cartoon?

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/14/2014 5:10:27 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

It's so weird thinking of it with wolves, since isn't Yellowstone like the place in the Yogi Bear cartoon?

Yogi lived in Jellystone Park.

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Wolves in Yellowstone. - 10/14/2014 5:21:11 AM

Greta75

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