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RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 10:15:28 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How about a national requirement that to be eligible to vote, you have to be able to speak English?

As soon as there is a constitutional ammendment stating that english is the official national langauge I don't think it would be difficult to make that a requirement. This, of course, begs the question what would stop some other ethnicity besides english speakers doing the same thing? Claiming native american ancestery hardly clouds bigotry. If one choose not to learn to communicate with one's neighbor please do not obfuscate their motives with sanctimonious rhetoric.


As for the ID bullshit, I guess that the fact that the State did inform the citizens of the law change, that PSA's have been run, and all those voter registration drives should have included the information, but then, if the dems did not tell the people they were trying to register to vote about the change in laws, it is the fault of the Republicans right?

That is not the case though is it? The demopubs snivled from day one about the voter id that the republicrats foisted on them.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 10:24:43 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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You are correct, and I am not being mean or facetious, nobody does give a fuck. They don't give a fuck about you, or me, or the immigrants that they would have you believe are the issue. They are too busy giving a fuck about themselves - and maintaining their status quo- to ever give a fuck (pardon my french, but it was your terminology, not mine) about people that are so insignificant.

In the process, they make sure that we blame each other instead of "them". And from the looks of it, they are succeeding handsomely.

If you want change, it needs to be voted in. You think they don't know that? What better way to ensure it does not happen than to make it difficult for the growing masses of disenfranchised to actually exercise that vote? They have us up in arms, against each other, in a game of divide and conquer. If you can't identify the problem, you can't go about fixing it.





_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 10:45:37 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You dont get it do you?
I understand your position clearly. You have your eyes wide open while having your head up your ass. It is no wonder you have such a shitty outlook.

You go to a store, and you get a cashier that barely speaks English,

Either educate yoursef or explane to the store manager your inability to acquire the necessary language skills to communicate with his minimum wage employees and you will henceforth spend your welfare cheque with vendors who recognize your limitations and provide you with clerks who do command the english language.



you have to press 1 for English if you call a US government agency in a country where the majority of people speak English,
This would seem to indicate that the govt. is willing to collect it's revenues in spite of some not being fully literate in english.



you go to a government office and you get some person who again has a hard time understanding English,


Not to disparage texas enunciation but I used to live in houston and many of my peers were difficult to understand...almost as if they had a mouth full of hot grits while speaking.

then you get some democrat politician suggesting that the government should fund classes for English speakers to learn fucking Spanish...

It used to be a requirement to graduate from high school that one had to know a foriegn language. Living in texas, would it make more sense for one to study spanish or russian?

Then you have people yelling about a free voter ID that is good for nothing more than voting,

Seems like a scam does it not? Didn't you just say that regular id would work in texas to vote? You seem to be at odds with yourself here.

which is not costing the voter a dime, but costing the state money to make the damn things, screaming that it is unfair to the poor and minorities?

If they have to pay to get one.

I have had trouble getting checks cashed with a driver's license expired a week, and people can get by with an expired ID for longer?

What is your point here?

I have voted democrat in every fucking election since Reagan, but now you have liberals who scream at common sense requirements,

What common sense requirements are you speaking of?


whine over compromising to keep the Constitution intact,

What are you talking about?


and then dont have the balls to stand up and fight for what they told you they wanted.

Still wondering what you are talking about.

We have to protect the rights of the minorities

Are you against this?


(many of which wont even try to learn the most common language on the planet)

The most common language on the planet is chinese. The second most common is spanish.

http://www.alsintl.com/blog/most-common-languages/



protect the rights of murderers, rapists, child molesters, and every other violent criminal in the country,
Before conviction they have all the rights you have. After conviction they still possess most of the rights you do but are incarcerated to prevent them from causing further harm to society.



while ignoring their Caucasian base

You do realize that hispanics are caucasians.

by passing a fucked up health care plan that fucked a lot of people out of good coverage they had (after being assured they would not lose their coverage) done not a fucking thing to lower insurance premiums, and they tell us it is for our own good...

Since you have self identified as a demopub why did you not offer your input for a single payer system when
this scam was first floated?


I sure as hell aint a conservative, but I cant call myself a liberal any more, because in my opinion, neither side gives a fuck about what the fuck I need or believe in.

The two sides of the same coin are demopubs/republicrats, political parties.
Liberal/conservative are concepts



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/23/2014 11:11:11 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 10:55:11 AM   
stldaddy


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Stop voting for the two parties. They just divide us and compromise us.

Is there a state where you can register to vote without an ID?

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 12:00:14 PM   
jlf1961


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Thompsonx,

First, if you have a regular drivers license, DMV issued ID, military ID, or passport, you dont need the free ID. Only people who dont, wont, etc have to get the free ID good for nothing but voting, which in and of itself makes about as much sense as a milk bucket under a bull.

But clearly, your inability to understand a simple thing, or even research the facts seems to justify your insults.

Second, I dont get welfare, instead I get a vet disability check, insurance and social security, so again, stop your bullshit.

Third, when stationed in a foreign country, I learned the language of the host country, I learned German as a child because my father was stationed in Germany, my mom learned German, dad learned German, why? Because it was the spoken language of the fucking country.

Only in the US are we expected to learn the language of illegal aliens, immigrants and who the fuck else comes to this country, where it is not necessary for them to have more than a rudimentary understanding of English to become a fucking citizen.

Then there are bleeding hearts like you that feel that these people coming to the states have more rights than people born here, that we should learn their language and cater to their needs.

I grew up in this country, and when I was going to school, kids that did not speak English were required to learn English by the time they got to 6th grade, or they did not progress to 7th. Foreign languages offered were Spanish, French, and Latin. Teachers were not required to be bilingual.

When I went to school, the pledge of allegiance was said in the mornings, we prayed before football games, we could wear the US flag without having to worry about offending Latinos, and people got along.

When I graduated in 1980, people spoke English in stores, government offices, and the military taught English to enlistees who did not fully understand it.

Then came the 21st century, and "Press 1 for English." requiring state issued photo ID to vote or anything else was discriminatory, lets give amnesty to illegals who are already in the freaking country, oh, and stopping illegal border crossing is discriminating against minorities.

And then it is my fucking fault because I dont want to learn Spanish?

That is exactly what is wrong with the Democrats and liberals today. Lets bend over backwards to help everyone but legal American citizens.

You know why I have a shitty outlook about the US of the 21st century, it is simple, there is no longer any Americans, we have Americans segmented by ethnic heritage, religion, tax bracket, region, even what part of a city you are from. Does anyone want to do anything about it, hell no, liberals and conservatives have been busting balls to make it worse.

Electing an African American didnt bring this country together, it fucked it up worse, you had the birthers, and every other paranoid group in the country feed enough crap to the media to start the tea party, you have the propaganda machines of both parties telling half truths and bald faced lies, FOX and MSNBC, the major networks contradict themselves half the time, CNN spends countless weeks talking about crap that has about as much to do with this country as who the fuck is the king of the Gypsies.

The United States has become the laughing stock of the planet. We are either trying to shove our idea of democracy down some poor countries throat, making deals to get soldier back that got captured while AWOL, and a president that orders the execution of Americans without the benefit of a court room trial.

For the first two years of Obama's presidency, we could blame bush, but after that, it was all President Ooops Obama.

You can stand by while rights of average American citizens are being whittled down to appease minority members who cant even understand or read the Declaration of Independence without it being translated to another language, if you want to.

Personally, I will keep buying guns, speaking English, and telling people that cant speak English to either learn the language or run their happy ass back to where ever they came from.

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 12:31:59 PM   
stldaddy


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quote:



protect the rights of murderers, rapists, child molesters, and every other violent criminal in the country,
Before conviction they have all the rights you have. After conviction they still possess most of the rights you do but are incarcerated to prevent them from causing further harm to society.




Actually conviction of certain crimes allows, although there is no limit they just choose certain crimes at this time. for the government on a state and federal level to keep a person incarcerated beyond their plea deal or conviction release date, indefinitely.

So a 10-year sentence can turn into life if the government deems you to still be a threat to society. Civil commitment is argued by many to be unjust and lacking due process.

And of course as an enemy combatant you can be kept indefinitely without due process.

< Message edited by stldaddy -- 10/23/2014 12:35:49 PM >

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 2:57:51 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

Hundreds of thousands of Texans will have a hard time getting the ID. The ID law says that Texans can get a state-issued photo ID from police, but only in certain locations. “Those who lack the approved forms of identification may obtain an “election identification certificate” from the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), but more than 400,000 eligible voters face round-trip travel times of three hours or more.”


Is bullshit, all you have to do is go to your local DMV office every county has one, so there is no three hour freaking drive, except in five counties in far west Texas that have a total population between them of less than 30,000 people. One of those counties is larger than the state of Massachusetts and has a population of less than 9000 people.

Actually there are 81 counties in Texas without DPS offices and in 34 additional counties the DPS office is only open part time.
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2012/08/common-sense-voter-id-not-always-so-common/

The fact is that multiple federal judges have looked at the Texas law and the Texas system for issuing ID's and found that the law would have the effect of disenfranchising people.



If they had started building offices instead of pissing and whining and lying, they would have had enough built by now to handle the situation. But as usual instead of doing anything positive, you merely sit back and point fingers at those evil right wingers. Good luck with that.

How would federal judges get Texas to build DPS offices? Are you so epically clueless that you think that is inside the purview of a judicial order?



I wasn't talking about the judges, I was talking about the idiots like you who keep claiming this is republican plot.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 3:03:41 PM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stldaddy

Stop voting for the two parties. They just divide us and compromise us.

Is there a state where you can register to vote without an ID?



yes Missouri, all you need is a recent utility bill

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 3:04:51 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You made the claim. You knew it wasn't true when you made it. And I never made any claim about only Republicans being able to get ID. You are a very clumsy liar.


You claimed requiring id was a republican plot to stop democrats from voting. Now if it is just as easy for a D to get id as a R then there is no plot and you are lying. But again, I am not surprised.

I was browsing the web for news stories and stumbled across one that claimed it was going to explain why Texas' New Voter ID Law Is Racist. This intrigued me mainly because of the numerous discussions we have held here. Then I clicked on the link http://www.alternet.org/election-2014/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburgs-scathing-dissent-offers-12-reasons-why-texas-new-voter-id?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark and wasn't surprised a bit to see that there was no actual reasons revolving around racism and the article was basically a lie.

You seem confused or are unable to read. Both my point and Ginsberg's are sound.



there is no doubt in my mind that you believe this but it changes nothing.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 3:08:22 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
How about we require all voters produce a valid passport? That's the best form of national ID we have and it confirms citizenship.
It would also wipe out the GOP base from voting -- but hey... getting a passport is not too much of an undue burden.


Why would it wipe out the GOP base from voting?



From what he has posted the GOP can be anything from those evil bankers with millions at their disposal spending their time plotting the destruction of the lower classes to a bunch of rednecks sitting outside their trailer listening to rush and hording guns. I would have to guess he is referencing the trailer set in this scenario. And of course they are to stupid to leave the county let alone the country.

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 3:32:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

Hundreds of thousands of Texans will have a hard time getting the ID. The ID law says that Texans can get a state-issued photo ID from police, but only in certain locations. “Those who lack the approved forms of identification may obtain an “election identification certificate” from the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), but more than 400,000 eligible voters face round-trip travel times of three hours or more.”


Is bullshit, all you have to do is go to your local DMV office every county has one, so there is no three hour freaking drive, except in five counties in far west Texas that have a total population between them of less than 30,000 people. One of those counties is larger than the state of Massachusetts and has a population of less than 9000 people.

Actually there are 81 counties in Texas without DPS offices and in 34 additional counties the DPS office is only open part time.
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2012/08/common-sense-voter-id-not-always-so-common/

The fact is that multiple federal judges have looked at the Texas law and the Texas system for issuing ID's and found that the law would have the effect of disenfranchising people.



If they had started building offices instead of pissing and whining and lying, they would have had enough built by now to handle the situation. But as usual instead of doing anything positive, you merely sit back and point fingers at those evil right wingers. Good luck with that.

How would federal judges get Texas to build DPS offices? Are you so epically clueless that you think that is inside the purview of a judicial order?



I wasn't talking about the judges, I was talking about the idiots like you who keep claiming this is republican plot.

You do realize I and people like me have mountains of evidence right? You have nothing. There is a difference.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 4:28:07 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: stldaddy

quote:



protect the rights of murderers, rapists, child molesters, and every other violent criminal in the country,
Before conviction they have all the rights you have. After conviction they still possess most of the rights you do but are incarcerated to prevent them from causing further harm to society.




Actually conviction of certain crimes allows, although there is no limit they just choose certain crimes at this time. for the government on a state and federal level to keep a person incarcerated beyond their plea deal or conviction release date, indefinitely.

Cite please.


And of course as an enemy combatant you can be kept indefinitely without due process.

That is military and not civil.

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Interesting Point - 10/23/2014 5:00:09 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Thompsonx,

First, if you have a regular drivers license, DMV issued ID, military ID, or passport, you dont need the free ID. Only people who dont, wont, etc have to get the free ID good for nothing but voting, which in and of itself makes about as much sense as a milk bucket under a bull.

Are you seriously telling me that an i.d. card that will allow you to vote will not allow you to buy beer or join the military or cash a cheque? Please show me that in the law.



Second, I dont get welfare, instead I get a vet disability check, insurance and social security, so again, stop your bullshit.

Any cheque from the govt is a welfare cheque. You and I get the same ones. Yes even the voluntary insurance program called s/s

Third, when stationed in a foreign country, I learned the language of the host country, I learned German as a child because my father was stationed in Germany, my mom learned German, dad learned German, why? Because it was the spoken language of the fucking country.

Since you claim you knew german as a child how is that you learned it as an adult to conform to the country you were not an illegal alien in?

Only in the US are we expected to learn the language of illegal aliens,

Who expects this from you?


immigrants and who the fuck else comes to this country, where it is not necessary for them to have more than a rudimentary understanding of English to become a fucking citizen.

Do you ever take your head out of your ass?
Are you telling us that citizenship test in the u.s. are not given in english?


http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/exceptions-accommodations



Then there are bleeding hearts like you that feel that these people coming to the states have more rights than people born here,

Now you are just making shit up. Show me where I have advocated such.


that we should learn their language and cater to their needs.

Only if you want to talk to them otherwise feel free to embrace your ignorance.

I grew up in this country, and when I was going to school, kids that did not speak English were required to learn English by the time they got to 6th grade, or they did not progress to 7th.

Which school district are you speaking of where after 6 years of school the student did not speak english?


Foreign languages offered were Spanish, French, and Latin.


What language did you take? I mean living in texas and all what was your choice as a language?

Teachers were not required to be bilingual.

Where are they required to be bilingual today?

When I went to school, the pledge of allegiance was said in the mornings,

When I went to school "under god" was not in the pledge of allegiance.


we prayed before football games,

One would think that by the time you were big enough to play football you would have outgrown the need for an imaginary friend.


we could wear the US flag without having to worry about offending Latinos, and people got along.

Perhaps if you and the assholes involved in that fiasco were to acquire a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade you would not make such stupid statements. Go to google and find out what the real meaning of the original cinco de mayo celebrations were for.

When I graduated in 1980, people spoke English in stores, government offices, and the military taught English to enlistees who did not fully understand it.

When I was in the military speaking english was a requirement for enlistment...but then I wasn't in the army.

Then came the 21st century, and "Press 1 for English."

If commerce wishes to sell to non english speakers then they institute those protocols that will insure non english speakers have access to their goods and services.


requiring state issued photo ID to vote or anything else was discriminatory, lets give amnesty to illegals who are already in the freaking country, oh, and stopping illegal border crossing is discriminating against minorities.


If you would take your head out of your ass and let your fingers do the walking through the google pages you might find out that crossing the boarder is a misdomeanor while hireing those who cross the boarder illegally is a federal felony punishable by five years in the federal joint and a $5K fine for each violation. If you are tired of trying to live on that chicken shit welfare cheque you might consider the bounty on someone who had maybe a hundred or more illegal aliens working for them. What would you figgure your cut of the bounty on a 100 million dollar fine???


And then it is my fucking fault because I dont want to learn Spanish?

The only reason for you to learn spanish is if you wish to speak with someone who only speaks spanish. It would appear that you do not have much incommon with latinos so why should you waste your time learning to speak a language you are not interested in speaking?

That is exactly what is wrong with the Democrats and liberals today. Lets bend over backwards to help everyone but legal American citizens.

Bill gates and ted truner are american citizens and they seem to be doing ok by the govt welfare trough.

You know why I have a shitty outlook about the US of the 21st century, it is simple, there is no longer any Americans, we have Americans segmented by ethnic heritage, religion, tax bracket, region, even what part of a city you are from.

When has this been different?


The United States has become the laughing stock of the planet.

It always has been. The problem is that you don't read the foriegn press and observe the opinions of those who are not us.


We are either trying to shove our idea of democracy down some poor countries throat, making deals to get soldier back that got captured while AWOL,

If that were true then he would be in the stockade...look at what was done to pfc bobby garwood. You have no absolute data but all the shit that is in the blogs you seem to take for gospel.


and a president that orders the execution of Americans without the benefit of a court room trial.

For the first two years of Obama's presidency, we could blame bush, but after that, it was all President Ooops Obama.

You can stand by while rights of average American citizens are being whittled down to appease minority members

How does the patriot act apease minorities?


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Interesting Point - 10/24/2014 2:04:18 PM   
Sanity


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FR

quote:

In a forthcoming article in the journal Electoral Studies, we bring real data from big social science survey datasets to bear on the question of whether, to what extent, and for whom non-citizens vote in U.S. elections. Most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote. But enough do that their participation can change the outcome of close races.


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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Interesting Point - 10/24/2014 3:15:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

quote:

In a forthcoming article in the journal Electoral Studies, we bring real data from big social science survey datasets to bear on the question of whether, to what extent, and for whom non-citizens vote in U.S. elections. Most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote. But enough do that their participation can change the outcome of close races.


From your article
quote:

We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

So if you believe these people, which I don't their methodology is very suspect, about non citizens voting then you also have to believe them when they say that voter ID laws won't stop them from doing so.

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Interesting Point - 10/24/2014 3:52:38 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

quote:

In a forthcoming article in the journal Electoral Studies, we bring real data from big social science survey datasets to bear on the question of whether, to what extent, and for whom non-citizens vote in U.S. elections. Most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote. But enough do that their participation can change the outcome of close races.


They're certainly welcome to buy the candidates of their choice, without IDing themselves, thanks to the SC.

OH, and btw, scholarly journals don't preview coming attractions. "real data" . . . "big social science survey datasets" (<--read...opinion polls) . . . could it get any more vague?





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/24/2014 3:54:38 PM >

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/24/2014 3:57:38 PM   
Sanity


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Why not compare apples to apples MM, and tell us how it would be a great idea to force every voter to publicly reveal who they vote for in each election

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/24/2014 4:00:49 PM   
Musicmystery


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Because it isn't apples to apples. Noted pages ago.

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RE: Interesting Point - 10/25/2014 7:43:52 AM   
hot4bondage


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Noted pages ago by yours truly. Secret ballots, anonymous political ads, and anonymous publications are all part of the broader discussion of political privacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_privacy

The whole page is worth reading, but I'd love to hear your argument against this:

"Finally, there is the issue of anonymous authorship of opinions. The Federalist Papers, which contributed to the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, were written under the pseudonym Publius. Most peer reviewed journals employ anonymous reviewers - and some, such as The Economist, publish only unattributed views. From classic to modern times, anonymity has proven an effective counter to groupthink - ossified mind-sets that very often become politically dangerous. The more who author anonymously and "neither confirm nor deny" their authorship, this argument goes, the harder it is to confirm identity, and therefore the harder to intrude into anyone's political privacy.

Mainstream views in North America tend to weakly support this view, in contrast to very strong support for it by its nations' founders: Benjamin Franklin said that "those who give up a little liberty to gain a little security, deserve neither." Political liberties being to a degree dependent on basic rights of political privacy and expression of views without retribution, this could be applied to modern contexts to argue strongly against such measures as Total Information Awareness. Knowing the political views of the citizen and what s/he has done to oppose the state and its law enforcement, how can an administration or police officer actually behave in a neutral way?"

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Interesting Point - 10/25/2014 8:04:52 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Once again, since you didn't catch it (or didn't want to) the first time . . .

Authoring opinions and secret unlimited financing are apples and oranges.

Peer reviews journals do NOT employ anonymous reviewers. Having been through that process, I was given ALL the reviews and comments, with names and institutions. Credible publications of any sort rely on actual identifiable authors. And for good reason -- it's a credibility issue.

In fact, it's one of the reasons Wikipedia is not considered an authoritative source.

Anonymous pieces have their place -- but your examples come pre-First Amendment. Apples and oranges, even within your own context.

The issue is buying elections. That's not voting in the one-to-one person-to-vote sense. Nor is it simply adding a voice. It's crowding out opposing messages with the power of unlimited financing from no one knows where (including citizen/non-citizen, domestic/foreign, law-abiding/criminal, etc.).


(in reply to hot4bondage)
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