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ORIGINAL: Mistressannalee

For me I Just avoid switches completely. The ones I encountered in the
past were pushy and unsure of their role. I am more comfortable with submissive men,
They seem less kinky and more lifestyle.

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ORIGINAL: flutterby55

I hear you and I'm more comfortable with dominant men who are sure in their role.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Unsure Of Who They Really Are -- Yep
Greedy -- Yep, plus add Selfish and Needy to that.
Not Serious -- Yep, insofar as LTRs are concerned or honoring their relationship commitments. (No different than the vanilla man who says he doesn't have a ring on his finger so therefore he feels justified in being free to fuck around. This kind of disloyal person cannot be trusted to honor marital vows either.)
Unwilling To Accept Their True Nature -- Yep
Problematic -- Hell Yep
Clueless About The Realities Of "Real" Lifestyles -- Yep, to which I shall add Lacks Understanding of what a D/s dynamic is all about (in terms of power&control-authority/deferral exchange) as opposed to BDSM kink fulfillment.
Jack-Of-All-Trades -- Yep, although this can be a plus, depending on the circumstances.
Slutty -- YEP!!! And shamelessly proud of it...and believes that everyone else should be as equally slutty.
Will Leave You For Their Other Needs -- Yep, and for any other shallow reason

I've had all of these things applied to me. I happily own "greedy," LOL! I am. I admit that. I am also poly, so I don't have conflicts there.
That reminds me of a person I knew who not only happily owned "greedy," but thought there was nothing wrong with admitting to being "selfish and needy" also. He was not polyamorous per se, but rationalized that any partner he was with was free to have other sex partners, so this gave him a free pass. People can do as they like, but what's the point of getting into a live-in LTR with somebody else if you're going to run around with other people? Just to have an easily accessible warm body to lie next to at night? Makes no sense to me, unless there is some socio-economic motive involved, or else you're using your partner for some other personal gain, in which case you're being less than honest with yourself and with him/her.

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I have even agreed, in a previous post that the term is used by people in ways that cover basic insecurities and nefarious purposes... but then, so is the term "submissive."

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

This site is much more D/s orientated than other sites I use.... I have to say, the subject of switches on this particular site hugely irritates me. The insinuations made about switches is not only unfair but ridiculous and highly insulting to the switches amongst us. What our prejudices do though, is drive people underground. Instead of people proudly standing up and saying they switch they go undercover and undercover switches are a problem to both dominants and submissives. A huge amount of what I call closet switches are in our midst on this site in particular. Anyone who has been a Domme on this site will of had their fair share of male dominants after a sneaky spanking from a dominant woman. Opportunist men who portray themselves as dominant to a wider audience but keep their shameful and sordid secret of switchery under wraps. Such people are deceitful liars and they are certainly unreliable, at least to the submissive who blindly adores them.

Personally I'm a lot more wary of a submissive who claims they were born to serve or a dominant who says they were born to rule than I would be of a switch but then I have to admit, the older I get the less tolerant I've become of puritans...I normally keep my mouth shut though. I have met far too many submissives and dominants that turned out to have unstable personalities. I know a few sound minded ones but not enough to sway me into believing a lot of them aren't just bonkers.

Just because a person has a driven need to take their fetish ever so seriously, doesn't mean those that don't are unreliable. If they don't like switches because they believe them to be liars, slutty and problematic, they simply move along and don't involve themselves. I'm sure the switches wouldn't miss them.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
You make some good points, but because the topic is about S/switches, we haven't been going into our gripes with Dominants and submissives! Or Tops/bottoms, Sadists/masochists and fetishists. (You don't want to get me started. Trust me. ) For simplicity's sake, there are a couple types of S/switches, besides the ones who are closet ones. As for the closets ones, though, is it really the fear of prejudice or are they ashamed of their own natures?

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There are S/switches who actually enjoy switching roles between being the BDSM Top-giver and the bottom-receiver (whatever that breakdown might be, or how it changes from person to person or by gender--"Dom" with one gender, "sub" with the other).

Then there are (perhaps not peculiar to this site alone) vanilla newbies who don't know what they are. This is perfectly understandable because they are newbies. You have the vanilla man who classifies himself as a Dom so he can get blowjobs-on-demand and thinks every submissive female is going to offer herself to be used sexually at the drop of a hat. Has nothing to do with being a Dominant. There are subs who think any kinky woman is slutty and sex-crazed. There are many male subs who approach femsubs thinking that since they are of a submissive disposition, that they will consent to service Topping them. Again, people just out to use other people as disposable sex objects, or thinking that all submissives want to be used by anybody and everybody as a a disposable sex object. Now, I won't go into every possible example, but since I've referred to Doms, I'll touch upon the subject of Dommes.

There is such a huge underground demand for FemDom, that many women who are more the S/switch will present as a Dominant woman. Much of this is sub-driven demand, there being exponentially more male subs than there are Dommes to meet that need. Their fantasy is to be with an assertive and/or aggressive (Sadistic-acting) Dominant woman, so it's a supply & demand situation.

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I believe this Great Divide between D/s and BDSM is the culprit. Those who are D/s-oriented mix like oil & water (in terms of finding a suitable primary partner) with those kinksters who are all about the BDSM. I'm not saying that either are better or superior to the other. I have my own privately held, subjective opinion based on what is better or desirable/undesirable for me personally; but objectively, each of us is unique and is entitled to our own personal preferences. Like you said, the switches won't miss not getting with an incompatible match, hypothetically. But yet, who resorts to maintaining both a Dominant and a submissive profile, as some S/switches do? Who may or may not be forthcoming about this? It isn't those of us who are dedicated to being a D-type or an s-type.

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In fact, it really is the BDSM community at large and not just this site which overly emphasizes Dominance and submission. This site doesn't even allow for users to classify themselves as a Top or bottom, or fetishist.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Dom so he can get blowjobs-on-demand and thinks every submissive female is going to offer herself to be used sexually at the drop of a hat.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

I think inner shame comes from the way we are conditioned. Gays used to fear telling people they were gay because the response would often make them feel ashamed of their nature. That surely means that fear and shame merely means fear of shame. Unfortunately, even in this day and age, certain expectations are expected of men. If they deem submission as a weakness they are far more likely to keep that desire under a dark cloak. The male submissive who can proudly stand up and admit to being a submissive is someone who doesn't have those same fears. The problem with the cloaked submissive is, he leads a life of fear and self doubt and that leads to him being deceitful. Lies protect his reputation...his ego. I truly believe that male dominants who sneak behind their submissives backs are more likely to be fully submissive than the man who clearly states he is a switch. His mask of dominance makes up for the inadequacies he really feels.

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I think what a lot of people don't get about switches is, "some" feel incredibly dominant towards a particular person and its an ongoing dominance but they can feel totally submissive towards someone else and the submission they give to that person is absolute. My friend who was dominant for many, many years and who had a long term relationship with a very contented submissive man, never thought of herself as a switch, in fact she would of laughed at the very idea. When she lost her submissive man to an illness and was back on the dating scene, she fell hook line and sinker for a dominant man and is now his devoted slave. She does however, still have a dominant need, just not with him. We seldom, if ever talk about switches like this but they clearly exist. A switch can be 100% submissive to one person and 100% dominant to another.

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The BDSM communities in the UK are really fetish communities. In other words, all are welcome and nobody gets demonized. The communities that got me out and about on the scene were seldom categorized, apart from the Fem Domme establishments and the baby adult clubs (something I have never attended). I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that I have never heard a person utter, "switches are confused" or "switches are just sexual deviants" in any of these places but perhaps that's why I have come to know and love so many switches over the years. Is it perhaps an American thing to not trust a switch? or is it an online thing?

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I will say this, I'm on board with your checklist! (As redlined)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Unsure Of Who They Really Are -- Yep
Greedy -- Yep, plus add Selfish and Needy to that.
Not Serious -- Yep, insofar as LTRs are concerned or honoring their relationship commitments. (No different than the vanilla man who says he doesn't have a ring on his finger so therefore he feels justified in being free to fuck around. This kind of disloyal person cannot be trusted to honor marital vows either.)
Unwilling To Accept Their True Nature -- Yep
Problematic -- Hell Yep
Clueless About The Realities Of "Real" Lifestyles -- Yep, to which I shall add Lacks Understanding of what a D/s dynamic is all about (in terms of power&control-authority/deferral exchange) as opposed to BDSM kink fulfillment.
Jack-Of-All-Trades -- Yep, although this can be a plus, depending on the circumstances.
Slutty -- YEP!!! And shamelessly proud of it...and believes that everyone else should be as equally slutty.
Will Leave You For Their Other Needs -- Yep, and for any other shallow reason

See, here's the thing...I see all of these things applying to jerks, not switches. I know plenty of "dominants" this list could apply to. As many "submissives," too.

That, I think, is the inherent problem of using labels as a way of classifying people.

As you mentioned, this site does not offer much in the way of labeling flexibility, but then, even with all the labels FL has, people still get confused or have different definitions for what words me.

To me, Dominant means, "Willing to lead, highly capable, and eager to take responsibility for others." To some, it means, "On your knees and grovel."

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I've had all of these things applied to me. I happily own "greedy," LOL! I am. I admit that. I am also poly, so I don't have conflicts there.
That reminds me of a person I knew who not only happily owned "greedy," but thought there was nothing wrong with admitting to being "selfish and needy" also. He was not polyamorous per se, but rationalized that any partner he was with was free to have other sex partners, so this gave him a free pass.

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with selfish and needy, either... it's actions that count to me. If he is out being selfish with others who are selfish, and their mutual selfishness is met, then great. If he is being selfish, and harming other in the process, that just makes him a jerk.

Being a submissive, or a dominant, or a switch, or bi, or het or homo does not change or even affect someone who is a jerk.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

People can do as they like, but what's the point of getting into a live-in LTR with somebody else if you're going to run around with other people? Just to have an easily accessible warm body to lie next to at night? Makes no sense to me, unless there is some socio-economic motive involved, or else you're using your partner for some other personal gain, in which case you're being less than honest with yourself and with him/her.

Well, first, there is poly versus open. Poly is generally considered a more closed group. That said, there are many reasons this might happen.

LTR, Man/Wife + Bulls = Cuckold or Hotwifing: There are MANY men who really, really love seeing their woman pleased by another man, sexually. The love and commitment is still there, and has nothing to do with the bull.

LTR, Man/Wife + Unicorm OR Man/Wife + Bi guy OR Three women OR Three Men= Triad. This is a common arrangement, and I've seen triads that have been together for years.

Or, a family I know: Wife 2 + Man + Wife 1 + Boyfriend, in a "W" shape.

So, these are representative of poly structures I know personally. And they are closed, not just running all over with others, but closed groups. That said, to get the third, or whatever, someone is dating to find that other partner, usually.

To poly people, asking why they want another is like asking a parent why they want another child, when they already have a perfectly good one.

The same thing with switches. We know that what we enjoy and want to explore fall on two sides of a perceived "slash," so we own it, and enjoy it.

And some are 100% open and honest about it. And some are not. But that just makes the dishonest ones jerks, natch.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB


I have to say, the subject of switches on this particular site hugely irritates me. The insinuations made about switches is not only unfair but ridiculous and highly insulting to the switches amongst us.

As a switch myself, I find it amusing, honestly. I had similar discussions to this yesterday about switching, race, and "safety" lines drawn along gender lines.

It's fascinating to me that people still label and make assumptions about individuals based on a predefined idea of how they "should" act.

I mean, would this conversation be OK if we substituted "women" for switches? Or "black people?" Or "gays?" And yet, it is the same exact thing, making assumptions based on a group of individuals.

That said, we have to do this. It's hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary survival making this happen. Those who survived were those who judged quickly, conservatively, and got away from those they could not trust.

And yet... I think we can learn to see past that. And even if our preferences are one or the other, our overall judegment of an entire groupcould, perhaps, be a little more tempered.


_____________________________

Nookie
--
https://datingkinky.com

I Write! A few of my books on Amazon: http://amazon.com/author/msnnotes

(in reply to FieryOpal)

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

And some are 100% open and honest about it. And some are not. But that just makes the dishonest ones jerks, natch.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

To poly people, asking why they want another is like asking a parent why they want another child, when they already have a perfectly good one.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
<snip>
Not that greater understanding would change our preferences.

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ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

I'm curious as to how Dominant women deal with switches, if and when they engage them or if it even matters to you that they switch?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

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ORIGINAL: seekingreality

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

I'm curious as to how Dominant women deal with switches, if and when they engage them or if it even matters to you that they switch?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

In my experience, many (but not all) dominant women like their sub to take control at times. So lots of dommes like switches, even if they don't particularly want their partner to self-identify as a switch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

I'm curious as to how Dominant women deal with switches, if and when they engage them or if it even matters to you that they switch?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

I'm curious as to how Dominant women deal with switches, if and when they engage them or if it even matters to you that they switch?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

I'm curious as to how Dominant women deal with switches, if and when they engage them or if it even matters to you that they switch?

Thank you in advance for your replies.