Zonie63
Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy
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ORIGINAL: sissyhypnoslut
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ORIGINAL: littleladybug
But, we're talking here about a video showing predominantly YOUNGER people engaging in this behavior. The stories recounted here have mentioned the same thing. Essentially, we're speaking about the baby boomers being the *grandparents* of the majority of these people. When they die off, how will things change? Apparently, there's a group of 17 year olds in New Hampshire that thinks this is "ok behavior".
They think it's ok behavior because they are rewarded for it. When you're 17, there's not a whole lot of consequences for your actions, and there's a whole lot of upside to acting like a douche when it's a proven tactic for getting laid. So do we blame the douche, the girls who enable his behavior by reacting favorably to it, or the parents who raised them all? Do we just blame society at that point? Or do we stop trying to pin blame, and start looking for solutions?
Personally I think it has to start with blaming the douche, if they are called out when people see it happen and it becomes a shameful thing to do for them then they will stop (eventually maybe). The trouble is I don't actually want to do that myself because I'm scared of them. And if I'm scared of them, how can I expect other people not to be. It exists because society lets it exist as a whole, men and women. I think it would be mostly pointless criminalising it because how could you police it? it might work in some way as to send a message but I don't think it could really be policed.
It might seem like a simple matter of just calling them out when they do it, assuming that they even have any sense of shame at all. But I don't think that's a viable solution, not because other men are necessarily scared of them, but they may also be concerned about their standing with their male peers. It's not that they fear violence as much as they fear ostracism from their male peer group (which might seem worse from a male point of view). They might also care more about their friends' feelings than the feelings of some random stranger walking down the street whom they'll probably never see again. I'm not saying that it's right, but it's the reality of what one would face when trying to deal with this problem on an individual peer level.
Also, since this is a problem rooted in society itself and pervasive throughout popular culture, the one lone individual saying that it's not okay to do this is drowned out by many more voices throughout society who say it is okay - or at best, send out mixed messages.
I suppose they could just pass a law against it, although as you say, it would be very difficult to enforce. There may already be old ordinances already on the books in some jurisdictions. I recall reading recently about a 1905 Houston law which forbade (among other things) making "google eyes" at women walking down the street.
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I really don't think there are many girls who do react favourably, I think the number that don't far outweighs them. I am annoyed a bit when I see a woman saying they like being treated by strangers in that way, when they are alone and vulnerable especially, but it IS their choice to like it. The rest of us don't get the choice, it just happens to us regardless so I don't think it should be that the men get to choose to do it. I think the blame has to be on the one who is doing it, rather than the one who is reacting to it.
Overall, I agree with what you're saying. However, as far as blame goes, blaming the one who is doing it is really only the first step. It's an oversimplified solution to a complex problem. I'm not saying that we should blame the victim either, nor is it even a matter of "blaming society" as much as trying to identify those aspects of society and culture which might need to be changed.
I think sissyhypnoslut makes a good point in that, as a society, some men and boys aren't taught very well as to what "being a man" truly means. I don't think it's because there aren't enough male teachers or that there aren't enough male role models. It might be because of conflicting ideas of what a positive male role model would entail. And with a lot of kids being raised by TV and other forms of "edutainment," that can run up and down the spectrum.
Another aspect of this which should not go unmentioned is that overall, we're a generally ill-mannered society anyway. This is especially true in the larger cities like New York where "fuck you" is how people greet each other. But even in smaller cities and communities, there might tend to be a generally rude, discourteous, and unsympathetic atmosphere. A lot of people have forgotten how to say "please" and "thank you," or other simple rules of common courtesy and decorum. This may not be directly related to the issues raised in this thread, although it's definitely one of the many components when examining the overall problem at hand. It contributes to the more hardened attitudes one might see on the streets, so people who might otherwise care about the problem end up not caring. A lot of people just plain don't give a shit about their fellow human beings, as we live in a kind of dog-eat-dog, me-first, he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins society.
It doesn't have to be that way, and it probably shouldn't be that way. However, in my experience, I've found that trying to argue against it is an uphill battle, mainly because so many embrace this mentality and revel in it. Some people might just resign themselves and say "that's the way it is" and leave it at that. That may be why some people won't be inclined to challenge it that much, because they might see it as a dead-end argument which ends up going nowhere. This thread is kind of an example of that.
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 
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