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A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 8:44:36 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		As I have mentioned on these boards many times before, after not having one for 17 years, I finally got my driver's license back. But it took me another year... until this summer... to get a car (Thank you Mom!!)

So last weekend was the first time in at least 20 years....if ever (?) that I've driven in New Jersey and I had a rather frustrating experience.

I was driving north on the Turnpike. I was in the left lane doing about 73-75 in a 65 mph zone and I was passing all the cars on my right. At one point I looked out my rear view mirror and saw a white 4WD riding my ass. So I sped up a bit to about 80 mph. Well, this guy just kept on my ass, would back off a little bit for a minute or two and then get on my ass again.

Now....I know that people don't like slowpokes in the left lane, I don't either, but really.....how fast do you need to go? Isn't 80 fast enough in a 65 zone?

So this went on for a few minutes....this guy would get on my ass and then back off and then would come up again.

Then at one point I looked in my mirror and saw his little flashing lights....a cop.....SHIT!

I pulled over and he told me that he pulled me over for 2 reasons.....one because I was speeding....he clocked me at 73-74 mph. (Either my speedometer is broken or he never clocked me when I thought I was doing 82 mph....)
....but he also stopped me for "Failure to stay right".....because I was riding in the left lane for a long time. Even though I was passing everyone on my right (except for him riding my ass)

Ok.....now I had no idea that New Jersey had such a rule....because Delaware doesn't have this rule (Although I found out that Pennsylvania just started it recently)
Plus....I can understand passing people who are going below the speed limit, and I understand WANTING to pass people who are driving at or just above the speed limit....but I have to ask....doesn't the speed limit still apply to all lanes of the road and even if you are in the left lane, isn't it still illegal to go over the speed limit? Meaning....if the person ahead of you is already doing 70 mph in a 55 or ever 65 mph zone.....you shouldn't NEED to pass them.
I don't know if I explained myself very well there....but what I was getting at was.....if I was already breaking the speed limit by doing 75+ and passing people in the right lane, why should anyone need to pass me? It seems to me that by having this rule, they are just encouraging more people to break the speed limit.

But I digress....that really isn't my point of all this.

So...I told the cop that this was the first time I had driven in New Jersey in a very long time and I wasn't aware that they had such a rule. He told me that there are signs all over the place. He said he wasn't going to ticket me for speeding, but he did give me a ticket for "Failure to Keep Right". The rest of the trip up the turnpike, another 4 exits, I saw NO such sign saying that the left lane was for passing only. All I saw were signs saying that trucks and buses had to stay right....and signs saying that it was illegal to pick up or discharge passengers on the side of the road.

I looked at my ticket and it didn't have any dollar amount fine on it, so when I got home last week, I looked it up to find out what my fine was.



$185.00 (plus 2 points)


I got a tightness in my chest and almost choked. Holy shit. They have GOT to be kidding!

So....what I wanted to ask anyone around here who might be familiar with New Jersey traffic court and violations and such....if I went to court to fight this.....what are the chances that the cop will actually show up to the hearing? Or do I have a decent shot of him not showing up so that it gets dismissed? Do I have any defense in the fact that there are no signs on the road telling people about this rule?

Or am I just screwed and should just pay it so I don't end up paying court costs too?

As much as I don't want to pay the $185.00 my main concern is getting points on my license.....I really don't want my insurance rates going up. If it wasn't for the 2 points, I probably would just pay it.

So....do you think I should go to court.....or just pay it?

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 8:59:33 AM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline 		Generally there is no defense when there are no signs. As part of the "privilege" of driving on a state's roads, you are imputed to know the rules.

In terms of the rule, I can imagine that part of the reason for it is to prevent "road rage" type of incidents. Have you ever been riding in the right lane and had someone nearly cut you off in order to pass the person that they were behind in the left lane? Happens to me frequently here. But....that's a moot point for your predicament here, as the judge's job is not to determine how silly or not a rule is.

I would suggest fighting it. Very often, judges will lessen the penalty if a traffic case is argued clearly, concisely and respectfully. In that vein, I would suggest that you *not* mention a lack of signage, or the fact that the law doesn't exist in your home state. Just keep it to the fact that you were consistently passing the cars to your right.

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 9:00:58 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Or am I just screwed and should just pay it so I don't end up paying court costs too?

As much as I don't want to pay the $185.00 my main concern is getting points on my license.....I really don't want my insurance rates going up. If it wasn't for the 2 points, I probably would just pay it.

So....do you think I should go to court.....or just pay it?


Go to court.

When you show, they'll offer a deal to get things done. I once went in with a charge of running a red light, and it got reduced to having a defective taillight or some such. If you tell the lawyer who cuts deals that you don't want points, they'll likely make you go to traffic school for a few hours instead. And here in Colorado, I'd probably get off with a fine of $100 or so.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 9:30:54 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Or am I just screwed and should just pay it so I don't end up paying court costs too?

As much as I don't want to pay the $185.00 my main concern is getting points on my license.....I really don't want my insurance rates going up. If it wasn't for the 2 points, I probably would just pay it.

So....do you think I should go to court.....or just pay it?


Go to court.

When you show, they'll offer a deal to get things done. I once went in with a charge of running a red light, and it got reduced to having a defective taillight or some such. If you tell the lawyer who cuts deals that you don't want points, they'll likely make you go to traffic school for a few hours instead. And here in Colorado, I'd probably get off with a fine of $100 or so.


So do I need to consult a lawyer first?

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 9:34:16 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I live in NJ and never heard of that rule. I always drive in the left lane.

I would fight the ticket.

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 10:11:00 AM   
SinFix


Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I don't know about New Jersey but a friend got huge speeding ticket in N. Virginia. His lawyer said that the police "target" out of state plates because they are less likely to fight it and take it to court. I have a feeling that is what happened there.

(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 10:33:44 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

I don't know about New Jersey but a friend got huge speeding ticket in N. Virginia. His lawyer said that the police "target" out of state plates because they are less likely to fight it and take it to court. I have a feeling that is what happened there.


Yeah....I was thinking about that too. Even though I'm not that far away, I wondered if the cop was assuming that I won't show up for court because I'm in another state.....which is why I'm wondering what the chances are of him showing up.

And if he doesn't show up....does the ticket automatically get dismissed? That's what someone suggested to me.....but I find that hard to believe.

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to SinFix)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 10:53:18 AM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


And if he doesn't show up....does the ticket automatically get dismissed? That's what someone suggested to me.....but I find that hard to believe.


I would actually be interested to hear about this from someone with knowledge of traffic court. I've been thinking, of late, that this is just an urban myth, for the most part.

I know that this becomes an issue with criminal cases...but in terms of moving violations, I would suspect that a court would take what is written on the ticket as the officer's testimony. I'm sure that there are times when there are legitimate questions...but for the most part, I would suspect that if an officer writes on a ticket...for example...that someone was doing 75 in a 60 zone...it simply is what it is.

I know, here in Washington, when someone gets a speeding ticket, there's a place for the officer to indicate "actual speed". My Dom got a ticket in one of the zones where I5 goes from 60 to 70 MPH. And, while we all know that cops "hang out" in those places.... his ticket indicated that he was actually going 75 in a 60- when he was actually given the ticket for 65 or something like that. This leads me to believe that cops do NOT have to be at any hearing for a ticket like this. And, I would assume (I know...that can be bad) that if someone brought up an issue like the speed gun being mis-calibrated, that they would just continue the hearing, and give the officer notice that he needed to be there.


(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 10:56:42 AM   
SinFix


Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Acutally, yes if the officer fails to show up they dismiss the tickets.. I've witnessed it first hand.

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 11:04:40 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Acutally, yes if the officer fails to show up they dismiss the tickets.. I've witnessed it first hand.



But does that vary state to state? You did say "I don't know about New Jersey but a friend got huge speeding ticket in N. Virginia. His lawyer said that the police "target" out of state plates because they are less likely to fight it and take it to court. I have a feeling that is what happened there.


_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to SinFix)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 11:10:12 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		This is a fast reply.

If, during the course of you passing the cars on your right, there was an opportunity to get over and you stayed in the left lane, you are guilty. The way I understand the passing laws are that you are allowed to speed up for a brief amount of time in order to pass the car safely and then return to the right lane. I do not know the exact law, and I live in PA anyway so it wouldn't apply to New Jersey. The cop will more than likely show up, but you may get lucky.

What you were pulled over for was a moving violation which will count against your insurance in most cases. The points against your license will come off after one year of violation free driving at the rate of one point per year... at least that is how I remember it. The bottom line is if what you are afraid of is the insurance hit and the points, I would go to court. The very worst they can do is to enforce the ticket and charge you court costs. Sometimes they are willing to reduce the ticket so you don't get points if you are polite etc. In any case, I would consult an attorney and see what they think.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to SinFix)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 11:21:01 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Here's tha thang...

Since you are a US citizen you agree to comply with all Federal laws, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Since you are a resident of your state, you agree to comply with all the laws of your state, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Since you chose to having a DL you agree to comply with all of your STATE regulations... ignorance of the law is no excuse.

At no point are you obligated to comply with laws in a state that you are not a resident of unless said laws are clearly posted upon entry into the state you're visiting. Speed limits and other road signs are posted clearly... in most cases.

As for the speeding... he got your ass. As for the other "State Law", it's not your state, you are allowed to be ignorant of those laws.

Go to court, ask for a jury trial if they push the "state law" and watch it get dismissed.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 12:08:35 PM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Here's tha thang...

Since you are a US citizen you agree to comply with all Federal laws, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Since you are a resident of your state, you agree to comply with all the laws of your state, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Since you chose to having a DL you agree to comply with all of your STATE regulations... ignorance of the law is no excuse.

At no point are you obligated to comply with laws in a state that you are not a resident of unless said laws are clearly posted upon entry into the state you're visiting. Speed limits and other road signs are posted clearly... in most cases.

As for the speeding... he got your ass. As for the other "State Law", it's not your state, you are allowed to be ignorant of those laws.

Go to court, ask for a jury trial if they push the "state law" and watch it get dismissed.


Your line of thinking is what I was wondering about....does the fact that I don't live in NJ mean that I am allowed to be ignorant of the law? I've always heard "Ignorance of the law is no excuse...."

He didn't ticket me for speeding....he only ticketed me for the left lane crap.

I think I am going to talk to a lawyer though....funny thing.....about 5 days after I got the ticket, I got a deluge of solicitations from lawyers in New Jersey. When I saw the first one on the top of the stack the first thing I thought was "WTF....is someone suing me? And WTF for??" Then I saw that there were letters from 5 more lawyers and I knew exactly what it was about....LOL

=============================

So......I called a couple of these attorneys and they all said that if they don't get it dropped completely, they can at least get the charge reduced to something that wouldn't put any points on my license.

BUT.....their fees range from $225 to $300.....plus I would have to pay any other fine attached to a reduced charge.

@#%^&!!!! I might just talk to my insurance agent and see how much this is really going to increase my rate.....it might be worth it to just pay the fine and take the points...... #$$#%#!!!!!!!


_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 12:27:31 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

So......I called a couple of these attorneys and they all said that if they don't get it dropped completely, they can at least get the charge reduced to something that wouldn't put any points on my license.

BUT.....their fees range from $225 to $300.....plus I would have to pay any other fine attached to a reduced charge.

@#%^&!!!! I might just talk to my insurance agent and see how much this is really going to increase my rate.....it might be worth it to just pay the fine and take the points...... #$$#%#!!!!!!!



What you have to find out is how long your insurance company is going to raise your rates for the moving violation and for how much money. The $225 may be worth it.

It never hurts to ask the cop or the judge if they would be willing to reduce the ticket to something that does not have points associated with it and is a non-moving violation. Most of the time, depending on how polite you have been etc. they will work with you so everyone wins. All they really want is the money and they typically do not want to screw over people with a clean driving record.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 12:34:23 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge



It never hurts to ask the cop or the judge if they would be willing to reduce the ticket to something that does not have points associated with it and is a non-moving violation. Most of the time, depending on how polite you have been etc. they will work with you so everyone wins. All they really want is the money and they typically do not want to screw over people with a clean driving record.


YES.

NJ wants their money...but they have no vested interest that I know of to put points on your license.

Smileforme...it may behoove you to give the court a call. If you don't do it on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon (usually the busiest times), you may get someone on the phone who will help you on this. They cannot answer "legal" questions...but they can answer procedural ones. Can I have a lawyer? Does the police officer need to be there? That sort of thing.

You might be surprised as to what you can learn from someone in the clerk's office. *s*



(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 12:37:15 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Bitch, (said like Pee Wee Herman) you've got mail.

(Cat call, wolf whistle, eye-fuck)

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 1:37:28 PM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Bitch, (said like Pee Wee Herman) you've got mail.

(Cat call, wolf whistle, eye-fuck)

Jus sayin


Excuse me?? That's "silly bitch".....

As far as the "(Cat call, wolf whistle, eye-fuck)" ......Have you had your eyes checked lately?

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 1:55:47 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Bitch, (said like Pee Wee Herman) you've got mail.

(Cat call, wolf whistle, eye-fuck)

Jus sayin


Excuse me?? That's "silly bitch".....

As far as the "(Cat call, wolf whistle, eye-fuck)" ......Have you had your eyes checked lately?


Hey, sexual harassment is part of my job description. Evil despot here, remember?

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 2:01:38 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		It is absolutely only for passing.
I can't believe how few residents of the ny, nj, pa, de area think otherwise.
I seriously want to post it in huge letters in all your states. In nh and VT it says, clearly, everywhere that the left lane is for passing, get over if you're done passing.

Idk anything about court, but it is truly the law in most states, nj included, I'd bet in de too.

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A question for folks from New Jersey - 11/3/2014 2:15:18 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

It is absolutely only for passing.
I can't believe how few residents of the ny, nj, pa, de area think otherwise.
I seriously want to post it in huge letters in all your states. In nh and VT it says, clearly, everywhere that the left lane is for passing, get over if you're done passing.

Idk anything about court, but it is truly the law in most states, nj included, I'd bet in de too.

It is probably true for most civilized countries that have a half-decent road infrastructure.
I know it's true for most of Europe and the UK.
The offside lane(s) are for overtaking/passing only unless otherwise indicated.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 20
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