DesideriScuri
Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Some have already argued that reducing the pricing of health care won't reduce the price of insurance. It seems intuitive that it would, but it's been argued already.
If government were to come in tomorrow and set prices for everything, who is going to get fucked? There would be a meltdown, as providers close up shop. I agree there are excess costs somewhere in the system, but where? I agree with JeffBC, that every level adds some, but how do we place price controls at the top, when it's probably not something the top can just absorb? And, who gets fucked in the end of all that? Patients. Consumers.
This is what I mean about you not understanding Desi.
By putting in place a socially funded healthcare system, the patients/consumers will not suffer.
In fact, they will gain by having nationwide cover at a fraction of the cost.
There would be no question as to whether they would be covered out of state - it would be nationwide.
There would be no question to what is covered because there are no exclusions.
The only people that would lose out would be the insurance companies and big pharma.
Except, you are the one that isn't understanding, FD. Where is the "fraction of the cost?" Sure, the consumers won't pay at the point of service, but if reimbursements aren't high enough, there will be a reduction in where those consumers can go (providers will leave the Market). How is that going to be changed, then?
quote:
If a government came in and said:
Doctors, depending on skill/seniority will be paid on a pay scale of $80k-$200k per year salary, regardless.
Nurses, as per doctors, $40k-$100k.
Cleaners, porters and auxilliary workers, $20k-$50k.
Compare that to the current salaries - much cheaper.
And it will be a livable wage because they won't be paying health insurance or deductibles out of it.
Good luck with that.
quote:
On top of that, if an aspirin costs about 10 cents around the world, that's what they will pay big pharma to supply hospitals, clinics and pharmacies across the nation. If big pharma complains and refuses, import them from any OECD country at the cheapest rate. If big pharma can supply boxes of aspirin at 10 cents a box to overseas countries, they shouldn't be allowed to sell on the home market at $1 a box and hospitals shouldn't be allowed to bill patients at 10 cents per pill. That is sheer greedy profiteering on a thoroughly disgusting level.
The same for every other item used in clinics and hospitals - buy at a wholesale price in big numbers and supply them nationwide at cost.
Remember, we are talking nationwide, not on a per-state level.
Any proof that's what Big Pharma is doing? I honestly don't know what the cost is to a hospital for a box of pills. I acknowledge that you could be right, but, without proof, how do we know?
quote:
Look again at your earlier graph. Even small countries and those with a lower GDP can do it.
We have private insurance here but if anything is done by farming out the work (like Japan, Canada and Australia does), they only pay the going national rate, not the rates charged privately.
Where is the waste?? Everywhere up the line and at every step.
The meltdown would be the insurance companies and the hundreds of middle-men adding their cut.
If the government can provide universal healthcare at 10% of income, with no deductibles, no co-pays, no exclusions, no personal billing requirements; wouldn't that be better than what the average Joe is paying??
Make it simple: Buy direct, buy in bulk, supply direct; nobody in the middle.
And just think, you'll also be creating jobs for supply drivers, warehouses and other stuff that you can also cap the prices on.
So,now we've got caps on care/services prices, and we're now capping supply drivers, warehouses, etc.
quote:
Example: If GM want $100k for a truck, offer them $80k per truck but you'll have 20,000 of them as a first order for their books.
We all know that the mark-up on such things (and hospital equipment) is way over 100% to allow for unclosed deals and cancellations. If they had such a large order up-front, they can cut their profit margins on a "safe" order and still make a bundle.
This is how supermarkets work to keep prices down and stay in competition.
They buy direct from farmers and ship it themselves.
They dictate, to a certain degree, the buying price.
It's a good business model and it works well.
That is essentially how single-payer healthcare works.
quote:
Supermarket example: The wholesale price of cauli's is about £100 a ton on the wholesale market.
Allowing for excessive damage and wastage at about 10%, that pushes the price of a good ton at £110.
Tesco pays our local farmer £60 a ton. That's a 40% saving in cost alone to the customer.
But.... they transport it direct from the farm and they buy every cauli he grows, regardless.
The farmer gains by not having to transport (or pay for transport) his goods to the market. On top of that, whatever doesn't sell, he has to dispose of safely. Tesco take care of all that because they buy all of them and provide the transport as part of the deal.
I asked Tim (the farmer) if it was worth it. He says it makes the book-keeping easier and he saves more than he loses on price so the net income per acre is higher.
At the Tesco end, they employ people to shrink-wrap those cauli's and they obviously buy trucks and trailers and also employ people to work in distribution warehouses.
Apparently (although I have no figures for this), the overhead for doing this is about 10% per cauli sold.
So.... if they sell those cauli's at 20% lower than the local shops and markets buying price, they still gain 10% in pure profit.
By selling cheaper, the locals either sell less items (because people shop in the supermarkets because of cheaper prices) or they have to cut their margins to stupidly small numbers to survive and make a profit.
This is just one single commodity on the market.
Supermarkets do it with everything they sell and make huge profits but are able to sell the end product at a cheaper price than many other outlets.
Now apply that business model to your healthcare system.
Huge savings to be made and everyone on the street gets decent healthcare at a fraction of the price.
That is where you'll bring the costs down across the board - and it works.
So what if a number of insurance companies go to the wall??
They either drop their premiums and provide a decent competitive service or they go bankrupt.
I'm sure that many Americans wouldn't shed a tear over a private insurance company going bust - unless they have shares in the company!! 
You say you understand but you still harp on about insurance and insurance companies and profits.
You need to stop thinking of profits and insurance companies; they don't figure in the equation.
Think of it more along the lines of a huge nationwide supermarket run by a non-profit charity.
If it's so profitable that way, why hasn't private insurance done that? Wait. I wonder if that's because insurance isn't allowed to sell across state lines, making it impossible for it to be a "nation-wide" solution. So, that would be "government regulation" preventing a potentially national solution. Even if there are 100 insurance companies, if they all compete on a national scale, wouldn't that help out?
I've said before (even though you don't think I understand the situation), that we'd have to have government owning the entire health care industry for it to work here. Even though there are those that disagree with me, I don't believe that's an authority the US Government has under the US Constitution. And, until an amendment is passed granting that authority, the Fed's aren't allowed to do it.
But, I don't understand... 
_____________________________
What I support:
- A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
- Personal Responsibility
- Help for the truly needy
- Limited Government
- Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
|
RE: US Health Care Costs - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread