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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

If he did actually say: "the only people with the right to object to immigration are native Americans", and I'm cautious in granting you this because it seems so idiotic that surely he could not have said that, then for the first time in my time on this board; and it's been a while, you actually have a point.

Except no one knows who the "original English" are, so on that basis we're all fucked.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

what he actually said (from his first link)
Returning to his hometown to speak, the president tried to place his recent executive action, which saved five million immigrants from deportation, within a great American tradition of welcoming foreigners.

"If you look at the history of immigration in this country, each successive wave there have been periods where the folks who were already here have said, 'Well I don't want those folks,'" he said. "Even though the only people who have the right to say that are some Native Americans."
His orders were sufficient in upsetting the GOP, but he also faced criticism from immigration activists who feel they do not go far enough.

Hecklers shouted "Not one more!" and "Stop deportations!" and "There is no justice!" during the speech, to which he replied at one point: "It doesn’t make much sense to yell at me right now."

Ploughing on, he argued: "Part of what America is about is stitching together folks from different backgrounds and different faiths and different ethnicities. That's what makes us special and, look, let's face it, sometimes that's hard to do, but it's worthwhile, it's worth doing.

oh and there is video too

Well, I think he's fucked up there then, because it's a really base, childish argument.

All countries have an immigration policy, or at least we would in the event we weren't held over the coals by the European Union.

It is expedient to manage your resources/public services/government income/whatever you want to call it, in line with the amount of people in your country. Nothing to do with racism, or prejudice, it's merely a pragmatic, rational course of action; and an appeal to a few hundred years ago is not much of a counter.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

If he did actually say: "the only people with the right to object to immigration are native Americans", and I'm cautious in granting you this because it seems so idiotic that surely he could not have said that, then for the first time in my time on this board; and it's been a while, you actually have a point.

Except no one knows who the "original English" are, so on that basis we're all fucked.

Sanity in his own demented way is merely continuing the rational of the Sand Creek Massacre.

>On Nov. 29, 1864, as Union armies fought through Virginia and Georgia, Col. John Chivington led some 700 cavalry troops in an unprovoked attack on peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho villagers at Sand Creek in Colorado. They murdered nearly 200 women, children and older men.

Sand Creek was one of many assaults on American Indians during the war, from Patrick Edward Connor’s massacre of Shoshone villagers along the Idaho-Utah border at Bear River on Jan. 29, 1863, to the forced removal and incarceration of thousands of Navajo people in 1864 known as the Long Walk.

In terms of sheer horror, few events matched Sand Creek. Pregnant women were murdered and scalped, genitalia were paraded as trophies, and scores of wanton acts of violence characterize the accounts of the few Army officers who dared to report them. Among them was Capt. Silas Soule, who had been with Black Kettle and Cheyenne leaders at the September peace negotiations with Gov. John Evans of Colorado, the region’s superintendent of Indians affairs (as well as a founder of both the University of Denver and Northwestern University). Soule publicly exposed Chivington’s actions and, in retribution, was later murdered in Denver.

After news of the massacre spread, Evans and Chivington were forced to resign from their appointments. But neither faced criminal charges, and the government refused to compensate the victims or their families in any way. Indeed, Sand Creek was just one part of a campaign to take the Cheyenne’s once vast land holdings across the region. A territory that had hardly any white communities in 1850 had, by 1870, lost many Indians, who were pushed violently off the Great Plains by white settlers and the federal government.

These and other campaigns amounted to what is today called ethnic cleansing: an attempted eradication and dispossession of an entire indigenous population. Many scholars suggest that such violence conforms to other 20th-century categories of analysis, like settler colonial genocide and crimes against humanity.<

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The point is that we took land that was not ours, and now Sanity and his ilk don't want to share it

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The point is that we took land that was not ours, and now Sanity and his ilk don't want to share it. A multi-cultural, fair minded American, like the officers who reported this massacre, seek to unite peoples peacefully.

A great story of immigration in the USA was told by the child of Korean Immigrants. Her father, from Korea, was banned from a green card and her parents were served with deportation papers. Sanity wants to send this man and his family back out of the country and he actually takes some kind of sick pride in that position.

In 1953, my father came to the United States, and my mother followed him soon after. My father was a highly trained doctor who had worked as a translator for American generals during the war. Those connections got my parents a visa, even though at the time America had instituted laws that effectively barred most immigrants from East Asia.

After a few years, my father was unable to get the visa renewed, but he was sure his immigration problems would soon work themselves out; a German doctor he knew had become a citizen with a minimum of fuss. My father got a job in a small mining town in Minnesota called Hibbing. The hospital needed him: Northern Minnesota was a difficult sell for prospective doctors, with its arctic winters and lower salaries. And as the lone anesthesiologist, he was basically on call all the time.

However, the racial difference between my father and his German friend became apparent when deportation notices for my parents arrived (on the day that I was born, according to family lore). My two older brothers and I were American citizens, but the Immigration and Naturalization Service didn’t care.

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"In the Bahamas, they treat Haitians like dogs," Youtchike Dormeus, an 18-year-old deportee,

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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"In the Bahamas, they treat Haitians like dogs," Youtchike Dormeus, an 18-year-old deportee,

I'm not sure that's a standard we should aspire to.

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The country, which denies treating anyone inhumanely, has deported 3,000 people this year.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Right now it's not that complicated.

Item 1: Mass Deportations, A huge police state, and splitting families up because the Tea Party hates "illegals" (code for minorities)

Item 2: Do what the nation has always done; integrate the the deserving, Americanized people living here without status.

Item 1: Tamp down economic growth and grow the size of the US Government (ICE, CBP, and Detention Centers)

Item 2: Unleash the creative power, labor, and innovation of immigrants to do what they've always done here.

------

I get the ugly world thing and its deep roots.

quote:

It is expedient to manage your resources/public services/government income/whatever you want to call it, in line with the amount of people in your country. Nothing to do with racism, or prejudice, it's merely a pragmatic, rational course of action; and an appeal to a few hundred years ago is not much of a counter.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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"In the Bahamas, they treat Haitians like dogs," Youtchike Dormeus, an 18-year-old deportee,

I'm not sure that's a standard we should aspire to.

I wonder how you forgot to include the entire paragraph

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The country, which denies treating anyone inhumanely, has deported 3,000 people this year.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

the US deported a record 438,421 unauthorized immigrants in fiscal year 2013, continuing a streak of stepped up enforcement that has resulted in more than 2 million deportations since Obama took office.

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WASHINGTON — Immigration activists have sharply criticized President Obama for a rising volume of deportations, labeling him the "deporter in chief" and staging large protests that have harmed his standing with some Latinos, a key group of voters for Democrats.

But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations...

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's from the Pew Research Center.

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