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camille65 -> Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 1:00:51 PM)

Okay I've never seen this topic here and it is something I've been thinking about for several years.

I want a dog. (To be specific I want a white Standard poodle that has a thing for being dressed up and tye-dyed, named Fifi McFluffernutter, don't call PETA on me please. I also want a matching teacup poodle whose name shall be Darjeeling).

While I adore my cat I sure do miss having a dog. But I am deeply unsure if my personality is really suited for the care and raising of a happy dog. I'm so not Alpha in any way, shape.. or form. From all I've read most dogs are generally happier when they know the human is the pack leader, if the human is not the pack leader they take over. Which is what happened with my last dog, I was totally unable to 'fix' a lot of her issues or even leash break her.

Now for the actual thoughts: Am I just nuts? Can any type of personality be a good dog owner?

Watching those dog training shows on TV, well those are all about people learning how to be a good pack leader. What if someone just can't pull that off?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 1:26:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
Now for the actual thoughts: Am I just nuts? Can any type of personality be a good dog owner?

Watching those dog training shows on TV, well those are all about people learning how to be a good pack leader. What if someone just can't pull that off?

I don't think personality has any bearing on it.

But..... a dog is a pack animal, whereas a cat usually isn't (not in domesticated cats).
So yes, you need to be it's master or it will usurp you as the pack leader.
That's why all the dog training is learning how to be a pack leader.

If you can't pull it off, then you really shouldn't have a dog unless you are prepared for it to rule you.



ivone57 -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 2:00:59 PM)

I don't think you should have a dog unless you can lead it .... otherwise you will have an unruly animal that will overrun your life... just saying



camille65 -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 4:29:55 PM)

That is why I don't have Fifi or Darjeeling at this point, I'm worried it would be unfair to them and make for a miserable household.

Maybe a better/newer question would be: Can pack leadership be learnt by someone who is a natural follower? Hmmm.



ExiledTyrant -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 4:33:08 PM)

Camille, if you will put them to work they will be happy. All breeds want to work and they behave best when they have a job to do.

Jus sayin



RockaRolla -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 4:33:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

That is why I don't have Fifi or Darjeeling at this point, I'm worried it would be unfair to them and make for a miserable household.

Maybe a better/newer question would be: Can pack leadership be learnt by someone who is a natural follower? Hmmm.

In my experience, yes, but you'll have to force yourself out of the comfort zone because you know it's necessary.



InHisHeart -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 5:41:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Maybe a better/newer question would be: Can pack leadership be learnt by someone who is a natural follower? Hmmm.


If you really want to you can. If you can't do it yourself, find a good professional trainer (IMO....one that does not use choke chains, pinch collars, zap collars or the like). Your local shelter can recommend trainers. Dog trainers are really owner trainers, they teach the dog owner how to be in control and be the pack leader. I always adopt the "misfit" dogs, the ones on the hard to place and un-adoptable list, most have behavioral problems due to neglect or abuse and some with chronic medical problems.

Patience, lots of positive reinforcement, be firm but kind (never cruel), keep the dog busy, give them the exercise they need, the attention they need and you'll have a very happy, well behaved dog that wants to please. Make training the dog a fun time, a good experience for you and the dog, don't make it like it's a dreaded chore.

In my experience, your attitude plays a big role in how easy or hard it is to train the dog.



DesFIP -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 5:49:49 PM)

That's why I've never had puppies. I've always adopted adult rescue dogs who were trained before.
I'm not the leader of the pack, I'm the one they love.

I'm not sure about the temperament of poodles. Myself, I've always had golden retrievers. And quarterhorses instead of Arabians or thoroughbreds for the same reason. Animals that need to be fought with over who is in charge are not dogs I want.



LaTigresse -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 6:23:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Okay I've never seen this topic here and it is something I've been thinking about for several years.

I want a dog. (To be specific I want a white Standard poodle that has a thing for being dressed up and tye-dyed, named Fifi McFluffernutter, don't call PETA on me please. I also want a matching teacup poodle whose name shall be Darjeeling).

While I adore my cat I sure do miss having a dog. But I am deeply unsure if my personality is really suited for the care and raising of a happy dog. I'm so not Alpha in any way, shape.. or form. From all I've read most dogs are generally happier when they know the human is the pack leader, if the human is not the pack leader they take over. Which is what happened with my last dog, I was totally unable to 'fix' a lot of her issues or even leash break her.

Now for the actual thoughts: Am I just nuts? Can any type of personality be a good dog owner?

Watching those dog training shows on TV, well those are all about people learning how to be a good pack leader. What if someone just can't pull that off?



In my experience, the smarter the dog, the stronger the person/leader needs to be. Poodles are smart dogs and may end up running the house if not given good boundaries. I would consider a more laid back breed. My daughter had a shitzu that was one of the most laid back and often times, mentally challenged, dogs I've ever seen. She was great with the kids and a very easy dog to have around. Do some research and look for a very mellow temperament type. A good shelter usually does assessments on their dogs.



littleladybug -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 9:03:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65


Now for the actual thoughts: Am I just nuts? Can any type of personality be a good dog owner?



Yes and yes. [:D]

Poodles are smart, yes. I have yet to meet one though who has "run roughshod" over their owner. I have known many smaller poodles, and only one standard. (Actually, I have half a poodle laying here on the couch next to me...he can be a bit bitchy at times, but I'm sure that's either the maltese in him...or the fact that he spent 10 years with my Dom. [:)] ) Seriously though, he has always enjoyed stimulation, so I think it's good that he's been around my dog for the past several years. But, I've also known poodles who have been "only kids" with older, less active folks, and there hasn't been a problem.

My other dog actually found me. Totally, absolutely wrong dog for me...but I didn't have too much of a choice in the matter. My opinion is that *anyone* can be the "pack leader". It takes understanding what the dog needs. Is it an active breed? Does it need oodles of exercise? Does it need a "job"? (I'm still trying to figure this out with my other dog...) Once you know this, being the alpha dog can be just as simple as taking the dog out for a run, for a swim, to the park. I would also echo the suggestion to find a trainer. That person will train you as much as they will the dog.

I would also suggest going to a couple of dog shows if you have the opportunity. There's nothing like being able to go into the benching area and speaking with people who live and breathe these breeds. They will be able to give you their professional opinions about the breeds, and how they may fit into your family and lifestyle.

Most importantly though, I think you need to get it out of your head that you would be a "bad owner" because of your submissiveness. I don't believe that anything is further from the truth. Even "less active", "mellow" dogs need a pack leader...and you have the inherent capability to do that. You just need the confidence (and training) to do it.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (11/30/2014 9:18:13 PM)


I don't think it's completely out of the question. I compare it to raising children. I know plenty of submissive ladies who brook no shit from their children. There is no doubt who is in control.

But, then, you have to ask: is the (what's the right word?) ... discomfort that you would endure by "changing" your personality worth it?

I have always been more of a cat person. Although I've never set out to own a cat, I seem to acquire them, occasionally, because they are much easier to care for; very independent.

I would really like to have a dog but my life is so hectic, right now ... I am contemplating getting a puppy right before summer break so that I can spend a solid two months with it and I plan on going for training lessons (although one of the few breeds I would take in is one of the smartest, according to everything I've read).

I think it can be done and if you really want to, I say: Go for it but be prepared for all the hard work and really (in your case) changing your whole life around, just for an animal.







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?



NookieNotes -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/1/2014 5:54:41 AM)

I did rescue/rehab/training with dogs for 22 years, and I agree with what DaddySatyr has to say. Anyone CAN do it. It's just realizing that dogs are not people, therefore you have to lead.

Just like children are not adult people and therefore need to be led.

BUT, if you want a dog you can treat like a person and "reason with," do not get a dog. It will be harmful for you and the dog.

I'd also suggest reading a few good books on dog behavior, to see if it's something you are willing to learn more about. There are many different avenues of training and behavior modification, and only you will know what you are going to be willing to do consistently over time.

And I do mean over time. Training a dog never really stops. Consistency is key, through the dog's life. With a Standard, you're looking at 10-12 good years. A miniature, can add 3-4 on top of that, easily. That's a long term commitment.

I don't have a dog right now. First time in 22 years I haven't. But I know my lifestyle right now is not suited to bringing a new dog into my life, with my travel and play.

Of course, you may end up with an awesome, laid back dog that learns quickly and does what you say as if by magic. I've had those. But prepare for NOT getting that dog, and make sure you want the dog no matter what, before you take the risk.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/2/2014 8:00:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

I did rescue/rehab/training with dogs for 22 years, and I agree with what DaddySatyr has to say. Anyone CAN do it. It's just realizing that dogs are not people, therefore you have to lead.

Of course, you may end up with an awesome, laid back dog that learns quickly and does what you say as if by magic. I've had those. But prepare for NOT getting that dog, and make sure you want the dog no matter what, before you take the risk.



I have a question: One of the few breeds I'm really interested in bringing into the house is a Border Collie. Based upon everything I've read, they are one of the smartest over-all breeds available.

So, here's the question: Do you think, if I got a freshly weened puppy (8 weeks, approximate) right at the end of Spring Semester (mid-late May), that spending 24/7 with it until the beginning of September would be enough time to solidify at least a decent basis for behavioral control?

My school has a program where you can get a full 4.0 for a class, if you can prove that you can meet the objectives without taking the class. I've been pretty good at this, so far so my school week would most likely be two days a week for 10 hours total out of the house (including travel time)







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?



xTightlylacedx -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 4:18:21 AM)

I am a sub, but own a large German shepherd. Being pack leader is more than just being dominant over that dog. There are certain behaviors that dogs see as dominant, such as being the first one through the door, or eating first. One way I reinforce my place as pack leader is to always make sure I feed the cat ,and myself before filling her dish, and making her sit before getting a treat or letting her eat. We also went through some advanced obedience training (she's a very smart dog) and she has never been allowed on the furniture. Poodles are one of the smartest breeds, but I'm not sure they have ever been known pushing their owners for pack leadership, unlike German shepherds who tend to push all the time. I would recommend some obedience training as soon as the puppy is old enough. That will strengthen the bond and help to put you in control. I will say that I have a good friend who is a veterinarian and in his opinion, standard poodles are the best all around dogs. I still prefer shepherds, but that's just me. Good luck.
@Daddysatyr....have you ever owned a border collie? They are tireless working dogs, and need a "job". They make very bad pets unless you can give them something to do ALL THE TIME. So unless you have a flock of sheep, plenty of land for the dog to run, or some other job, a b.c. will get into trouble just out of boredom. Maybe you do have a big farm and lots of time to manage a dog like that, I have no idea, but border collies are a handful. I had a border collie mix that always seemed to resent being a dog. I think he thought he was smarter than me. Probably was, but I have thumbs.



Greta75 -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 4:32:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
But I am deeply unsure if my personality is really suited for the care and raising of a happy dog.

I don't like dogs precisely because I have to be the pack leader and they need heavy duty management and attention.

I like cats and happy to be their "slaves".

But anyway, about your concerns..., it's just about being consistent. I mean, you know what you have to do with a dog, and you just do it, like it's a routine. I'm sure you can if you really wanted the best for your dog.



NookieNotes -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 5:48:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have a question: One of the few breeds I'm really interested in bringing into the house is a Border Collie. Based upon everything I've read, they are one of the smartest over-all breeds available.

So, here's the question: Do you think, if I got a freshly weened puppy (8 weeks, approximate) right at the end of Spring Semester (mid-late May), that spending 24/7 with it until the beginning of September would be enough time to solidify at least a decent basis for behavioral control?

My school has a program where you can get a full 4.0 for a class, if you can prove that you can meet the objectives without taking the class. I've been pretty good at this, so far so my school week would most likely be two days a week for 10 hours total out of the house (including travel time)


Yes, it would be a good start. There are many things you can do to establish the pack order and get the training on.

One of my favorites is whenever you are in the house awake, have the puppy leashed to you. To a belt, or whatever, so when you move, the puppy has to move and follow you, no matter what, unless you leash it to something else near (a cabinet in the kitchen when you are cooking, especially if the puppy is tired), or put him/her in her crate (a very sound tactic - good for pup to have a space of it's own).

The puppy getting used to following you is critical. Also watch the pup carefully. Observe. See the pup's personality and what you like/don't like. Play to the pup's strengths (smarts, energy), and downplay the pups' not-so wonderful assets (jumping or knawing to get attention).

Training should be in short bursts, no more than 5-10 minutes 4-5 times per day at the beginning, growing to 15-30 minutes 2x per day by the end of the 3 months.

Make it fun, always. Never force it.

Also, only correct negatively when the pup is about to endanger itself or others until at least 6 months old. Use redirection and positive reinforcement at all times, and ignore negative behavior, or redirect it.

Chewing, for example. "Ah-ah!" Then, give the pup something WAY more fun to chew on. Redirecting to what you allow.

Do not allow your friends or family to allow the pup to do ANYTHING you do not want. Jumping MUST be handled the way you want it handled, or that person is banished from puppy-world until the pup is trained.

--

And to be clear, except for the leash thing and the banishment thing, all the rest of this applies to human training as well.

Just sayin'.

*smiles*



NookieNotes -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 5:53:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xTightlylacedx

There are certain behaviors that dogs see as dominant, such as being the first one through the door, or eating first.


This is over-simplified. The dog may be the first one through the door, if you command the dog through the door, after making him/her sit.

Frankly, I think it's a pain in the ass to always walk through the door, then hold it open for my dog.

quote:

Poodles are one of the smartest breeds, but I'm not sure they have ever been known pushing their owners for pack leadership, unlike German shepherds who tend to push all the time.


They don't have to push. They are wonderful manipulators. Dogs are input/output machines. Period.

They do not get aggressive in dominance as often as GSDs, but that does not mean they do not get their way.

quote:

I would recommend some obedience training as soon as the puppy is old enough. That will strengthen the bond and help to put you in control.


Agreed. The puppy is never to young to start. Just start with very short sessions and make them fun.

quote:

@Daddysatyr....have you ever owned a border collie? They are tireless working dogs, and need a "job". They make very bad pets unless you can give them something to do ALL THE TIME. So unless you have a flock of sheep, plenty of land for the dog to run, or some other job, a b.c. will get into trouble just out of boredom. Maybe you do have a big farm and lots of time to manage a dog like that, I have no idea, but border collies are a handful. I had a border collie mix that always seemed to resent being a dog. I think he thought he was smarter than me. Probably was, but I have thumbs.


Another option is regular training. Border Collies LOVE Agility, Rally-O, and the like. heck, even running together, or playing games around the house of "seek and fetch."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6479QAJuz8

https://www.dognition.com/



MariaB -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 8:01:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I have a question: One of the few breeds I'm really interested in bringing into the house is a Border Collie. Based upon everything I've read, they are one of the smartest over-all breeds available.


I've had four BC's and they were all working dogs, meaning they were fetching dogs. If you get a naturally good fetcher, its going to be a pain in the ass as a house pet because it was born with this type of OCD and wants to round everything up, including you. A lot of BC's house pets end up in re-hab centres because their OCD is very stressful and if they can't work they literally go to pieces. I've often wondered if they really are as smart as they are made out to be or are they verging on mental! Don't get me wrong, I loved my BC's but try as I might, I never saw big personalities like I've seen in other breeds.

Whilst a BC has the concentration of a sniper shooter, they tend to be very particular about what they concentrate on. They were bred to work and breeding that out of them has been really difficult which means they can be nervous, stressed as well as stressful and become depressed easily. You could of course get a more lay back one and then your fine but I would be very careful not to buy a BC off a sheep herder.





NookieNotes -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 8:15:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
You could of course get a more lay back one and then your fine but I would be very careful not to buy a BC off a sheep herder.


I have found that a good breeder will help match the puppy's temperament to the home that is petitioning. They would never put a high-drive herding dog with a pet home.

And if they did, they would take the puppy back (it would be in the contract for sale) if there was a mismatch.

Most dogs overall do not get enough exercise. Add in smarts (BCs are very smart, they have to learn a lot of complex signals from their handlers AND think for themselves), and you have a recipe for OCD/destruction.

Just like super-smart kids bored in school with no physical outlet.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Dogs and D/s personality types (12/3/2014 12:19:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

And to be clear, except for the leash thing and the banishment thing, all the rest of this applies to human training as well.



For a long time, I thought of crates/crating to be kind of abuse but everyone I've talked to about this breed has told me that they can be kind of "moody" and they need that place that's all their own (and away from me) in order to be emotionally healthy. So, I'm sold on that.

My only "fear" is that, after three months with me, when I do have to leave the house for a quarter of a day, there might be some "acting out" or what have you. I think I may wait until I graduate.

Honestly, I had planned on bringing the dog with me, just about everywhere but not on my sofa or my bed (I may set up a chair, next to my sofa that he can sit on so that he can be close but not on MY sofa.

I was also planning on a doggie bed at the foot of my own. If I'm going to get a little furry companion, he's going to be a companion; not an occasional novelty.

I'm trying to really weigh the pros and cons. As I get further along, I'll need (maybe not a "service" dog but) a dog that can just kind of keep me motivated. However, I don't want my needs or desires to be flexed to the detriment of the animal.

My house is pretty big. It's wall-to-wall carpeting everywhere except the kitchen and bathrooms and I would have no issue with him running around in it. I don't have a huge yard but my lot is 75' X 200'. Plus, there's a big county park, three blocks away.



Michael



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