RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict

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GoddessManko -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 1:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I experienced a lot of racism growing up, I'm bi-racial and grew up in an essentially all Caucasian town. It was drilled into my head that I was worth less than my white peers while in school. I was harassed, bullied, and alienated from the time I was nine or ten until I graduated high school. When I was in junior high my family was still going to church. I went to the same church as everyone else in town yet in sixth grade my teacher asked me if I celebrated Kwanza, I was banned from the only movie theater in town bc my friends and I once bought tickets to a PG-13 movie and snuck into see Jackass when I was 13. The owner of the theater said all my friends could go home but I was banned for life. So to say it makes me sad is an understatement. I am devastated. After going through such adversity growing up and coming to self acceptance as an adult, the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking. But on an more uplifting note I attended a protest here in CA and the crowd was a mix of all races. I was glad to see that. That's heavy. I never experienced racism growing up. Nor in my adulthood and literally have tons of friends in a town where there was just myself and one other black person andddddd.....that was it. I grew up mostly overseas though and spent only a tiny part of my childhood here. All the cops vs black people stuff has been a bit "wtf?" for me despite not really feeling like I can relate to it. I'm hoping people chill out, I kind of like it here. I got bullied as a kid for being that smart nerd who never paid attention nor cared about anyone else. Also resentment from the same people being in my class, studying way harder than I ever did and I still always had the highest grades. I was an obnoxious kid. My obnoxious nature now is nothing compared to then, empathy was something I learned later. Children tend to be self entitled. I know I had days when I felt not pretty at all but I didn't care because I felt being intelligent mattered more. This one guy who made my life hell in what is 5th grade here actually hit on me on facebook. I wasn't sure how to respond, LOL. I find the most racist people can be the ones who tend to start off by telling me "I have never been attracted to a black girl before" like it's a compliment eye roll, but that's the extent of it thus far. I think cops are hot, might be the cuffs. [:D]

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 2:53:22 AM)
GoddessManko, I'm actually thinking about moving overseas. Maybe England. It's a lengthy process so I want to start it now. I know if I ever have kids I don't want them to grow up in a country where they are told that their lives are not worth the same as every other person or have to experience so much racism.

hot4bondage -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 8:29:57 AM)
I'm more pissed off than sad. They said it wasn't a chokehold, but I saw an arm held tightly around his neck. They said the medical examiner's report was politically motivated, but they never offered any evidence. They said he was illegally selling cigarettes, but no cigarettes were found. Eric Garner was killed because he was known to take advantage of New York's excessive tobacco tax, and, like many of us would, he showed some attitude when the authorities came to collect.

Aylee -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 9:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Just talked to a family member that is a lawyer. Several points, in addition to the "chokehold" 1. The "crime" that Mr. Gardner was accused of committing {selling cigarettes illegally} is not even considered a misdemeaner. She said it is the legal equivalent of some traffic offenses. 2. The fact that they let him lie there and did not immediately get medical care, AND let a man of that size lay on his back, instead of placing him on his side sealed his fate. It just goes on and on. As far as the "choke hold" goes, it sounds like it was asthma not the officer's arm that interfered with his breathing. That and being overweight. This is what the NYPD patrol guide says, per the New York Law Journal: "Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air." Hence the "not a chokehold," which has to be ongoing pressure. To your first point - When you pass a law, however trivial, you are providing an opportunity for police to use lethal force. That’s why I favor fewer laws, not more. It is just part and parcel of the law of unintended consequences. I have an instant revulsion to the phrase, "There ought to be a law," because of this. As to your point number two - they did get EMS to the scene. However neither oxygen or an inhaler was used. Having commented on all of that: Were the officers callous to his distress? I would say yes. Was it malicious? I do not think so. Was it contemptible? I would say yes. Should callousness be a crime?

kdsub -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 9:28:48 AM)
quote: I'm actually thinking about moving overseas. Maybe England. It's a lengthy process so I want to start it now. I know if I ever have kids I don't want them to grow up in a country where they are told that their lives are not worth the same as every other person or have to experience so much racism. Good idea...because we all know there is no racism in the UK. Butch

MrRodgers -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 1:14:35 PM)
It was manslaughter...pure and simple.

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 1:33:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: I'm actually thinking about moving overseas. Maybe England. It's a lengthy process so I want to start it now. I know if I ever have kids I don't want them to grow up in a country where they are told that their lives are not worth the same as every other person or have to experience so much racism. Good idea...because we all know there is no racism in the UK. Butch Never said there wasn't. But it's not nearly as bad as it is here.

GoddessManko -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/4/2014 1:53:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: I'm actually thinking about moving overseas. Maybe England. It's a lengthy process so I want to start it now. I know if I ever have kids I don't want them to grow up in a country where they are told that their lives are not worth the same as every other person or have to experience so much racism. Good idea...because we all know there is no racism in the UK. Butch Never said there wasn't. But it's not nearly as bad as it is here. Honestly I'm hoping there will be consensus and compromise on this issue. There seems to be resentment building up and it's even making me uncomfortable so I can imagine for others who can actually relate to the issue. I love living here, traveled everywhere, have a home overseas and still choose to reside here mostly for the diversity. I grew up in a place with puritan like conservatism and where most people were pretty uniform in style of dress, beliefs, musical tastes, food, everything you can imagine. I'm hoping you stay! It is terrible to be so jaded about a place that is supposed to be home. I'm sorry those people didn't know any better and ruined your enjoyment of diversity. For me diversity is like "OH, SHINY!" So new and exciting and full of perpetual discovery. California is amazing if you have never been. The people in Ventura county are WONDERFUL and very Bohemian in San Fran. I only saw millionaires with holes in their shirts in Cali, just great people, unususally friendly. Even within a given state the people, beliefs, landscape changes drastically so you were just in a bad spot which probably doesn't attest to majority of people. East Birmingham is nicer than Long Island (NY) in my opinion. Gorgeous homes, landscaping and again, unusually friendly people, My tiem there was great. I'll be honest though, the racially fueled news hasn't been great for me as a black woman, my race is the last thing that defines me. Maybe an educational program about diversity, not just black and white but asian, native American, and did you know there are more irish people in Boston than Ireland? That's what's so cool about this place. We'll see what happens but if you decide to travel I'll say go for it and see what's out there, try Monaco and Ibiza, but make a plan and travel safely. If you want to crash in different places for a week or two at a time you can check out couchsurfers. Sometimes we need that time out to regain composure. I have been thinking about and planning on moving myself and more open to international travel so I can relate. I think all what's been going on and the media coverage for ratings is quite sad though. Death and hate shouldn't be trivialized.Being American also allows other countries to open up their borders to you much more easily. Immigration standards are more lax. So you have options but no rash/emotional decisions is my best advice. Love travel and you're young so live ya life!

Hillwilliam -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/6/2014 8:43:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR The NY post says that the coroners report shows that neither the windpipe or neck bones were damaged by the attack. The rule on "choke holds" is loosely worded enough that it would include headlocks. Remember I said that even if it was a heart attack that killed Gardner it was brought on by excessive use of force. A co called "Choke hold" doesn't affect the wind pipe. It shuts off the carotids thus interfering with blood flow to the brain. This causes unconsciousness much faster than simply shutting off air flow.

inkedone -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 4:17:26 PM)
The Eric Gardner case is sickening, but hence reality in practice of loss or life due to collateral damage caused by excessive use of force and the lack of due care by the police as far as Mr. Gardner. Police frenzy in its finest. There needs to be an overhaul of the penal code concerning” use of force”. The second fold problem is proper police training, metal evaluations, and accountability of those officers that are to protect and serve. The stigma of police abusing or not being able to judge how much force is necessary to detain a person is a big issue. A growing fear among many who may be arrested not to resist arrest due to the likely hood that excessive use of force will occur. The protect and serve mantra was lacking in this case and did not have to escalate to loss of life. A senseless loss of life for a tax dollar on cigarettes. Where was the due care and humanity of it. This case really is sickening.

BamaD -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 4:33:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: inkedone The Eric Gardner case is sickening, but hence reality in practice of loss or life due to collateral damage caused by excessive use of force and the lack of due care by the police as far as Mr. Gardner. Police frenzy in its finest. There needs to be an overhaul of the penal code concerning” use of force”. The second fold problem is proper police training, metal evaluations, and accountability of those officers that are to protect and serve. The stigma of police abusing or not being able to judge how much force is necessary to detain a person is a big issue. A growing fear among many who may be arrested not to resist arrest due to the likely hood that excessive use of force will occur. The protect and serve mantra was lacking in this case and did not have to escalate to loss of life. A senseless loss of life for a tax dollar on cigarettes. Where was the due care and humanity of it. This case really is sickening. The more chicken s**t laws they pass the more negative interaction between the police and the populace and the more likely it becomes for someone to unreasonably raise the level of violence. This time by a cop.

Marini -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 7:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: inkedone The Eric Gardner case is sickening, but hence reality in practice of loss or life due to collateral damage caused by excessive use of force and the lack of due care by the police as far as Mr. Gardner. Police frenzy in its finest. There needs to be an overhaul of the penal code concerning” use of force”. The second fold problem is proper police training, metal evaluations, and accountability of those officers that are to protect and serve. The stigma of police abusing or not being able to judge how much force is necessary to detain a person is a big issue. A growing fear among many who may be arrested not to resist arrest due to the likely hood that excessive use of force will occur. The protect and serve mantra was lacking in this case and did not have to escalate to loss of life. A senseless loss of life for a tax dollar on cigarettes. Where was the due care and humanity of it. This case really is sickening. [sm=applause.gif] Sickening and disheartening are the words that come to mind. I do feel that resisting arrest in not a good idea, but this case has little to do with resisting arrest.

inkedone -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 7:32:57 PM)
quote: Sickening and disheartening are the words that come to mind. I do feel that resisting arrest in not a good idea, but this case has little to do with resisting arrest. More the mantra of "due care" while taken into custody toward Mr. Gardner is most important, but the cause" resisting arrest" and then the reaction "use of force" the end result a loss of life that did not have to be such a tragedy.

BamaD -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 8:49:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: inkedone The Eric Gardner case is sickening, but hence reality in practice of loss or life due to collateral damage caused by excessive use of force and the lack of due care by the police as far as Mr. Gardner. Police frenzy in its finest. There needs to be an overhaul of the penal code concerning” use of force”. The second fold problem is proper police training, metal evaluations, and accountability of those officers that are to protect and serve. The stigma of police abusing or not being able to judge how much force is necessary to detain a person is a big issue. A growing fear among many who may be arrested not to resist arrest due to the likely hood that excessive use of force will occur. The protect and serve mantra was lacking in this case and did not have to escalate to loss of life. A senseless loss of life for a tax dollar on cigarettes. Where was the due care and humanity of it. This case really is sickening. [sm=applause.gif] Sickening and disheartening are the words that come to mind. I do feel that resisting arrest in not a good idea, but this case has little to do with resisting arrest. There was no resisting arrest.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/8/2014 10:11:52 PM)
I won't go into a big, long, laundry list of why I think this, briefly; after viewing the video (many times), no matter what spin the NYPD wants to put on it, now, the cop was out of policy. Being out of policy means that what he did was illegal. Dress it up, all you want, it was a choke hold and the cop skipped a couple of steps (based upon what I know/common sense) and that makes him at fault. This is one of those rare instances where we have about as much video as we need to remove all doubt. I'll be wearing my "I Can't Breath" t-shirt for a while. Michael

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/9/2014 12:51:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: I'm actually thinking about moving overseas. Maybe England. It's a lengthy process so I want to start it now. I know if I ever have kids I don't want them to grow up in a country where they are told that their lives are not worth the same as every other person or have to experience so much racism. Good idea...because we all know there is no racism in the UK. Butch Never said there wasn't. But it's not nearly as bad as it is here. Honestly I'm hoping there will be consensus and compromise on this issue. There seems to be resentment building up and it's even making me uncomfortable so I can imagine for others who can actually relate to the issue. I love living here, traveled everywhere, have a home overseas and still choose to reside here mostly for the diversity. I grew up in a place with puritan like conservatism and where most people were pretty uniform in style of dress, beliefs, musical tastes, food, everything you can imagine. I'm hoping you stay! It is terrible to be so jaded about a place that is supposed to be home. I'm sorry those people didn't know any better and ruined your enjoyment of diversity. For me diversity is like "OH, SHINY!" So new and exciting and full of perpetual discovery. California is amazing if you have never been. The people in Ventura county are WONDERFUL and very Bohemian in San Fran. I only saw millionaires with holes in their shirts in Cali, just great people, unususally friendly. Even within a given state the people, beliefs, landscape changes drastically so you were just in a bad spot which probably doesn't attest to majority of people. East Birmingham is nicer than Long Island (NY) in my opinion. Gorgeous homes, landscaping and again, unusually friendly people, My tiem there was great. I'll be honest though, the racially fueled news hasn't been great for me as a black woman, my race is the last thing that defines me. Maybe an educational program about diversity, not just black and white but asian, native American, and did you know there are more irish people in Boston than Ireland? That's what's so cool about this place. We'll see what happens but if you decide to travel I'll say go for it and see what's out there, try Monaco and Ibiza, but make a plan and travel safely. If you want to crash in different places for a week or two at a time you can check out couchsurfers. Sometimes we need that time out to regain composure. I have been thinking about and planning on moving myself and more open to international travel so I can relate. I think all what's been going on and the media coverage for ratings is quite sad though. Death and hate shouldn't be trivialized.Being American also allows other countries to open up their borders to you much more easily. Immigration standards are more lax. So you have options but no rash/emotional decisions is my best advice. Love travel and you're young so live ya life! I live in CA now in an extremely diverse and open minded area. I love it. But it's a bit of a bubble I think. I basically came here running and screaming as a teenager bc I hated my hometown so much. But incidents like this remind me of my hometown and how big of a problem racism is in this country. And you are very lucky. If I had a home overseas I would probably be there right now lol

Sanity -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/9/2014 5:19:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali ...the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking. Thats something of a racist comment As if whites are the only ones on the planet who are capable of racist thoughts

Lucylastic -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/9/2014 5:26:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali ...the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking. Thats something of a racist comment As if whites are the only ones on the planet who are capable of racist thoughts she didnt say only whites thought it. attempt to diminish her feelings FAILED.

Sanity -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/9/2014 5:43:23 AM)
nm

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict (12/9/2014 11:51:02 AM)
I never said white people were the only ones who acted/felt that way. I was talkin about my own personal experience in which I faced a lot of racism from white people bc I'm of mixed race. I did not once say that people of others races were incapable of racism.

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