RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave'

RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (Full Version)

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InHisHeart -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:11:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: RockaRolla The best definition I've found came from a friend of mine. It's not clear whether it's by her or she got it from another source: "A submissive renews the choice to submit every time a demand is levied upon them. A slave makes a one-time choice to submit, up front, and thereafter it is incumbent upon them to obey." I've heard this a number of times before, in one form or another, and I have to be honest - I have no idea how this is done. How is there any sort of authority in the relationship if I get to have the choice as to whether I'll submit or not? (Genuine question. I've just never understood this.) I've questioned that myself. I'm a submissive, I made the choice upfront to submit to him, I don't renew that choice. I don't decide with each command whether or not I'll do what I'm told, I don't pick and choose when to submit and when not to. If I decide I no longer want to submit to him, I can walk away from the relationship and so can a slave.

RockaRolla -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:16:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: RockaRolla Well you kind of answered it yourself earlier - you can walk away at any time. Doesn't mean your D has any less authority. Hmm. Okay. Good point. Wait! :) Okay, now that I've thought about it.... 1. How would this serve to differentiate between a submissive and slave, then? If you're saying that my ability to choose to leave the relationship is equivalent to my choice to submit to a demand on any given day, then how does the definition you provided actually define a submissive versus a slave? And 2. If I were to be able to choose to submit to something, does the relationship still continue? Is he still my "Dominant" but maybe just a little pouty about me not obeying him? Am I allowed to not obey? Because if so, then yes, I would say that the Dominant does have less authority. See, I can't really answer those. That's why I added the part about getting 20 different answers from 15 different people, and relationships are all different. This was just... me sharing a quote that seemed to make sense at the time. And given I'm a switch who doesn't do power exchange I'm probably the last person who could answer your questions in a way that'd be meaningful to you.

Gauge -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Wait! :) Okay, now that I've thought about it.... 1. How would this serve to differentiate between a submissive and slave, then? If you're saying that my ability to choose to leave the relationship is equivalent to my choice to submit to a demand on any given day, then how does the definition you provided actually define a submissive versus a slave? And 2. If I were to be able to choose to submit to something, does the relationship still continue? Is he still my "Dominant" but maybe just a little pouty about me not obeying him? Am I allowed to not obey? Because if so, then yes, I would say that the Dominant does have less authority. I've come up with a new term that people might find helpful: Slavemissive The term Slave is antiquated simply because slavery does not legally exist... at least in America it doesn't. Therefore a slavemissive might be a better term overall. What we have is a combination of the slave mentality and the choice to submit. The slavemissive has choices to continue submitting, as opposed to actual slaves.

Kaliko -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:21:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InHisHeart quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: RockaRolla The best definition I've found came from a friend of mine. It's not clear whether it's by her or she got it from another source: "A submissive renews the choice to submit every time a demand is levied upon them. A slave makes a one-time choice to submit, up front, and thereafter it is incumbent upon them to obey." I've heard this a number of times before, in one form or another, and I have to be honest - I have no idea how this is done. How is there any sort of authority in the relationship if I get to have the choice as to whether I'll submit or not? (Genuine question. I've just never understood this.) I've questioned that myself. I'm a submissive, I made the choice upfront to submit to him, I don't renew that choice. I don't decide with each command whether or not I'll do what I'm told, I don't pick and choose when to submit and when not to. If I decide I no longer want to submit to him, I can walk away from the relationship and so can a slave. Right. If I don't obey him, um...I would imagine that's the end of that. I can't say for sure as I wouldn't dare test those waters. That doesn't mean I don't speak up if something isn't sitting right (or pout or whine a little here and there) but if he determines in the end that I must do something and I don't do it? I would think that's the equivalent of me deciding to leave the relationship, not me deciding I won't do that one thing but I still want to be his submissive. Because how convenient - and self-serving - would that be?

Kaliko -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:24:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Wait! :) Okay, now that I've thought about it.... 1. How would this serve to differentiate between a submissive and slave, then? If you're saying that my ability to choose to leave the relationship is equivalent to my choice to submit to a demand on any given day, then how does the definition you provided actually define a submissive versus a slave? And 2. If I were to be able to choose to submit to something, does the relationship still continue? Is he still my "Dominant" but maybe just a little pouty about me not obeying him? Am I allowed to not obey? Because if so, then yes, I would say that the Dominant does have less authority. I've come up with a new term that people might find helpful: Slavemissive The term Slave is antiquated simply because slavery does not legally exist... at least in America it doesn't. Therefore a slavemissive might be a better term overall. What we have is a combination of the slave mentality and the choice to submit. The slavemissive has choices to continue submitting, as opposed to actual slaves. Nice thought, but nah. I'm submissive. I'm comfortable with the term. It's everybody else that has it all wrong. [:D]

Gauge -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 12:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Nice thought, but nah. I'm submissive. I'm comfortable with the term. It's everybody else that has it all wrong. [:D] Dammit... I had a full clothing line prepared and perfume, and headphones, as well as sneakers and car parts. Slavemissive. SLAVEMISSIVE! [&o]

CreativeDominant -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 2:36:09 PM)
~grabs the popcorn cuz I KNOWS there's a good argument coming sooner or later~[sm=jerry.gif]

CreativeDominant -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 3:53:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: InHisHeart quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: RockaRolla The best definition I've found came from a friend of mine. It's not clear whether it's by her or she got it from another source: "A submissive renews the choice to submit every time a demand is levied upon them. A slave makes a one-time choice to submit, up front, and thereafter it is incumbent upon them to obey." I've heard this a number of times before, in one form or another, and I have to be honest - I have no idea how this is done. How is there any sort of authority in the relationship if I get to have the choice as to whether I'll submit or not? (Genuine question. I've just never understood this.) I've questioned that myself. I'm a submissive, I made the choice upfront to submit to him, I don't renew that choice. I don't decide with each command whether or not I'll do what I'm told, I don't pick and choose when to submit and when not to. If I decide I no longer want to submit to him, I can walk away from the relationship and so can a slave. Right. If I don't obey him, um...I would imagine that's the end of that. I can't say for sure as I wouldn't dare test those waters. That doesn't mean I don't speak up if something isn't sitting right (or pout or whine a little here and there) but if he determines in the end that I must do something and I don't do it? I would think that's the equivalent of me deciding to leave the relationship, not me deciding I won't do that one thing but I still want to be his submissive. Because how convenient - and self-serving - would that be? ~wonders where the HELL you were when I was with one very anal-retentive submissive (and not on a good way) 10 years ago.

seekingreality -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/9/2014 9:13:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk I 've had this question in mind for some time but it's the first time I try to ask this question when I see lots of websites trying to use these two different terms. aren't they the same thing ? what's the difference actually? SORRY I'VE JUS FOUND THE ANSWER ON GOOGLE . HERE'S I TRY TO ANSWER MY OWN QUESTIONS A submissive is someone who negotiates; a slave does not A submissive has limits; a slave has given up all limits except those which his/her owner sets for them. A submissive obeys and serves by choosing to do so each time and retains her will. A slave initially makes a choice to obey his/her master/mistress at all times and then submits to the will of his/her master at all times. A submissive accepts submission, while a slave accepts obedience. A submissive has retained some rights within the context of the D/s relationship, whereas a slave has given up all rights and becomes, in effect, property. A submissive is owned, but a slave is possessed. A slave is not allowed to sit on furniture or wear clothes, and always kneels at his/her owner’s feet. A submissive has a safe-word to end play, while a slave has consented to no-consent. A slave must be a submissive, but a submissive is not necessarily a slave. Being a submissive is just a step on the way to the “ultimate” state of submission, which is being a slave. A slave is more submissive than a “mere” submissive. Submissives are just playing; slaves live the lifestyle. A submissive has more self-respect than a slave. Slaves are crazy, because who in their right mind would want to be a slave? Personally, I don't get worked up about semantics. Whether someone calls themselves a submissive or a slave, you don't know what that means until you ask them. Someone could think of themselves as a sub or slave and not follow the rules on your list. And that's what some people miss: The only purpose of a list like this is to create a framework to begin a discussion. It doesn't provide an answer. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

searching4mysir -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 6:07:21 AM)
FR When I first joined, I had myself listed as a submissive. I negotiated limits with the man who now owns me, and it was understood that there are just some places I'm not willing to go. He considers me his slave, even with those limits. He was poly with his first wife (they had an open marriage). I'm monogamous. I told him he could remain poly if he so chose but that would mean he would do so without me. This was one of our negotiations. We share many of the same limits, so I no longer am concerned if I'm his slave or his submissive. He wants me as his slave, so I am. If anything were to happen to him (such as death as he isn't the healthiest and he is nine years older than I am) I would revert back to submissive for anyone else.

DesFIP -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 6:27:20 AM)
I sit on furniture, not the floor. But he has the right to make any decision he wants and I'll put up with it. This works because he isn't an ass. He's a caring man who wants me in good health with the relationship strong and loving. Thus I don't have to worry about scenarios of having all my teeth pulled out or whatever. What it comes down to is how good you are at picking a partner. That's it. Pick someone with a lot of compatibility and there won't be any talk about limits because you already know that you think the same on an issue. We're both democrats. We're both invested in our children. We both want this to be a forever relationship. Neither of us is into needles. And so on. Now, I'm not only allowed but encouraged to tell him no as long as I explain it. So he can fix the problem and get me to yes. "No I can't do this Friday morning because the chimney sweep is coming" will likely be met with "Okay, we'll do the errand on Saturday". Again, if you pick the right partner, none of the rest of it matters. I'm not a slave, I'm his slave.

DesFIP -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 6:28:58 AM)
I sit on furniture, not the floor. But he has the right to make any decision he wants and I'll put up with it. This works because he isn't an ass. He's a caring man who wants me in good health with the relationship strong and loving. Thus I don't have to worry about scenarios of having all my teeth pulled out or whatever. What it comes down to is how good you are at picking a partner. That's it. Pick someone with a lot of compatibility and there won't be any talk about limits because you already know that you think the same on an issue. We're both democrats. We're both invested in our children. We both want this to be a forever relationship. Neither of us is into needles. And so on. Now, I'm not only allowed but encouraged to tell him no as long as I explain it. So he can fix the problem and get me to yes. "No I can't do this Friday morning because the chimney sweep is coming" will likely be met with "Okay, we'll do the errand on Saturday". Again, if you pick the right partner, none of the rest of it matters. I'm not a slave, I'm his slave.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 7:15:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I'm not a slave, I'm his slave. And that is the cut and dry of it.

DesFIP -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 7:48:12 AM)
How the hell did I double post?

mnottertail -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 7:54:12 AM)
Once for the slave inside of you, and once for the submissive? How the hell should we know, slavegirl?

FieryOpal -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 8:00:57 AM)
Plus double edited! quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Once for the slave inside of you, and once for the submissive? How the hell should we know, slavegirl? Does the left (slave) hand know what the right (submissive) hand is doing? [8D]

mnottertail -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 8:03:54 AM)
One assumes they both stroke the same masters dick.

seekingreality -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 10:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP This works because he isn't an ass. He's a caring man who wants me in good health with the relationship strong and loving. Thus I don't have to worry about scenarios of having all my teeth pulled out or whatever. That's another thing people miss. In real life it's about the dynamics of the relationship. And once you move into real life, you don't worry about lists of what people should do or should be. People like the OP make me think of a guy in a vanilla relationship who says to his girlfriend: "I don't understand! I have a list here of girlfriend traits, and the list says a girlfriend is available to go out on a date Friday evenings. How can you be busy this Friday? The list doesn't say anything about that!"

experiment2 -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 1:06:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rubberloverhk I 've had this question in mind for some time but it's the first time I try to ask this question when I see lots of websites trying to use these two different terms. aren't they the same thing ? what's the difference actually? SORRY I'VE JUS FOUND THE ANSWER ON GOOGLE . HERE'S I TRY TO ANSWER MY OWN QUESTIONS A submissive is someone who negotiates; a slave does not A submissive has limits; a slave has given up all limits except those which his/her owner sets for them. A submissive obeys and serves by choosing to do so each time and retains her will. A slave initially makes a choice to obey his/her master/mistress at all times and then submits to the will of his/her master at all times. A submissive accepts submission, while a slave accepts obedience. A submissive has retained some rights within the context of the D/s relationship, whereas a slave has given up all rights and becomes, in effect, property. A submissive is owned, but a slave is possessed. A slave is not allowed to sit on furniture or wear clothes, and always kneels at his/her owner’s feet. A submissive has a safe-word to end play, while a slave has consented to no-consent. A slave must be a submissive, but a submissive is not necessarily a slave. Being a submissive is just a step on the way to the “ultimate” state of submission, which is being a slave. A slave is more submissive than a “mere” submissive. Submissives are just playing; slaves live the lifestyle. A submissive has more self-respect than a slave. Slaves are crazy, because who in their right mind would want to be a slave? i have to agree with the list provided. while otheres can debate it, the above sums up my definition of slave/submissive. to me a slave is owned and has signed away their control to a Dom/Domme. a submissive gives up control but not fully or "permanently" thsi debate can go on forever but to little avail.

CreativeDominant -> RE: what is the difference between 'submissive' and 'slave' (12/10/2014 2:21:38 PM)
And here we go.. If by little to no avail you mean that there will always be differences in how folks see it, you're right. If what you mean is that you and the OP are the right ones and so others' debate is of little sense since they're wrong, you're wrong.

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