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How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:24:12 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have read a lot on here about how you cannot really count the time you spent learning about BDSM and searching for a partner to use it on as experience in WIITWD. I wonder about this sometimes. While this is not a debate about internet v real time Ds, it is a question about how we classify experience and knowledge. Of course sooner or later you have to do WIITWD to be "experienced" in it, but I also wonder if the time searching oneself and learning about emotional aspects as well as technical aspects counts for something?

Someone could be a fixture at clubs, go to every lifestyle event, spank or be spanked by 1000s of people, but if they haven't had a Ds longterm relationship, then they wouldn't be experienced at this even though they would be experienced in SOME things. Same goes for someone that lived Ds everyday, if they never went to an event, stayed to themselves, and never interacted with others they would be experienced in Ds relationship dynamics wouldn't they, but maybe not in any other aspect of WIITWD.

I spent 2 to 3 years exploring my submissiveness without engaging in real life BDSM. I explored it with someone else online, but I was more or less exploring myself and my feelings about it before I started the real life aspects of Ds with him. I learned much about how to recognize if I needed to stop in a scene, what I could do as a submissive to facilitate play more pleasingly, how different dominants have different needs from their submissive. I learned much of the psychological aspects that can go into Ds so I could voice my own needs before I involved myself with another. I read about different technical aspects of WIITWD.

I think many of us do this, and yet it doesn't count as "experience" within the lifestyle by many people because it was work we did internally before we either took up a flogger or submitted to one. Our internal work is discounted as not a very meaningful way to prepare for BDSM. I think that this does count for me personally, as I would rather submit to someone that put a great deal of deliberation and forethought into it than someone that kind of stumbled as they went along because my personality is one of deliberateness. Not all would be well suited for this style of learning, but many of us are.

I am still very new to BDSM, no doubt about it, and I wouldn't claim otherwise! I just sometimes wonder how much weight one gives to willingness to learn and internalizing of knowledge V real life hands on experience... does the time we spend learning count for nothing?

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:42:33 AM   
sleazybutterfly


Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think that it counts for a great deal.  Before I started in real, I studied anything I could get my hands on.  I would pour over articles.. experiences of others.. do's and don'ts... I would talk to people on line and get an idea of how to act...and what I wanted exactly. 
 
It was nice not to come into this totally blind.. with a bit of knowledge of what to expect.. while this isn't considered real life experience.. I think I has prepared me for it in very favorable ways.
 
I had a Dom online for a few months.. this was nothing that would lead to real.. and I don't compare it..but it also gave me a chance to search myself..find a few surprises..and deal with the emotions that it all brought on..without waiting and going into total shock when the same thing would come up in person.
 
I think that we all gain experience in different ways.. some reading.. some online..and some from real.. it's what we do with those things..and who they make us that counts.  I think that whatever makes the easiest trasition for a person is what matters.. some prefer to jump in feet first to everything..others kind of like to test the waters a bit first.
 
I don't put down either way... I suppose it's just what makes it easier for that person to handle. 
 
~Andrea

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:44:18 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I don't care how much someone knows.  What I do care about is how well someone knows THEMSELVES and what their motivation is.

I totally agree with you on length of time  play experience one has to validate them.. But whoever I am with had better have their act  together and know themselves first.

Lotus

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:53:56 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		All time spent in learning whether it is hands on or book learning, is considered learning. Certainly if your goal is hands on after the initial book learning, then that's fine to give yourself the title of inexperienced. You really need to go with your gut on this one.

 It seems like you're really good with knowing yourself and gleaning info on others. Just go with it girl, and dont worry about what others say. Life can be lived as an art form. Sounds like you're on your way.  

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:54:05 AM   
sub4hire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am still very new to BDSM, no doubt about it, and I wouldn't claim otherwise! I just sometimes wonder how much weight one gives to willingness to learn and internalizing of knowledge V real life hands on experience... does the time we spend learning count for nothing?


In my own opinion I think it depends on your future partner.  I spent ten year's with my last partner.  All but 1 of them living together.  With my current partner we have been together 7.5 years now.  Together the entire time.  Dividing up households half of each week until one of us could sell and be together 7 days a week instead of 5.
Is it experience?  Do I count the 5 year's in between while searching for a partner?  Or the year's prior when I knew what the lifestyle was and sought out people of the same mindset?
My personal views are unless you engage in a D/s aspect you have not lived the lifestyle at all.  Anyone anywhere can play with bondage and S&M and they do.  Vanilla couples do it all of the time yet they do not consider themselves lifestyle at all.  Where does the line get drawn?  Very few people truly live the lifestyle that I have come across.  Many more in the pre-internet days than there are now.  Yet, now more know of the lifestyle.
Though so I am not rambling forever I think it depends on your partner and what they want to classify as experience.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 11:56:05 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

All time spent in learning whether it is hands on or book learning, is considered learning. Certainly if your goal is hands on after the initial book learning, then that's fine to give yourself the title of inexperienced. You really need to go with your gut on this one.

It seems like you're really good with knowing yourself and gleaning info on others. Just go with it girl, and dont worry about what others say. Life can be lived as an art form. Sounds like you're on your way.  


I am not worried, I thought it was wonderful discussion material...smiles. I like discussing things and mulling them over just for the fun of it.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 12:01:13 PM   
darkinshadows


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The more we learn about others differences the more we know of ourselves.
The more we know - the less we understand.
 
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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 12:48:57 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		julia, thank you for a wonderful topic.
 
Time spent getting to know yourself, who you are and what you want out of life is priceless.  When you further that self knowledge to include what sparks your interests, what lights a fire in your heart and soul then you have more self awareness than most people.  But knowledge isn't experience.
 
When you begin to expand your knowledge and experience that which you desire and long for, you begin to venture out and learn more than just what sparks your interests, it's the "rubber hitting the road" so to speak.  Someone can fantasize about being mummified for years, but maybe when they are actually mummified they don't feel the same excitement.  Or you might never have thought that a cane would feel good, but once you've really been caned then you can't get enough of it. 
 
While BDSM can be done alone, I find it's only truly fulfilling to have a partner to share it with.  That doesn't have to be a long time partner, it can just be a one time play partner.  I don't believe that you have to have a one to one LTR to experience any aspect of BDSM.  I do however believe that a bond, an emotional bond between partners makes every experience between the two much more intense.
 
The bottom line for Me, while I play with many "new to this" submissives, is I would prefer that My subs play with someone with a few months of hands on experience verses someone that's been reading about whips for 10 years but has never felt a whip in their hand or on thier back.  I don't care if they've been whipping a different person every month for the last 3 months or the same person every time. 

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 4:02:20 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Weighting the value of Knowledge and Experience is a highly subjective quality.  You may have all the knowledge and expereince in the world with regard to doing X.  But, if I have no interest in doing X... all your knowledge and experience is of very little value to me.  Also, I have alot of knowledge and experience in doing Y and you have been thinking and considering doing Y for years we really only share an interest in Y and there is no comparable value with regards to applied knowledge and experience.  It's very likely that my actual experience and knowledge applied has shown me how little value observing and thinking about doing Y has.  Another consideration is that my Y and your Y may appear very similiar but in the details we will find some significant differences in that my Y leads to Yabc and your is Ya1c.  In someways the differences between us will have more value for each of us than what is similiar.  It really depends on what we are motivated towards.  If we are seeking similiar ideas and thoughts we will look for people that share as close as possible with those that share them.  Or if we are seeking to evolve and grow... not only will we value those of similiar ideas and interest but will look for the differences within them and use them to grow and change our own perspectives.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 9:50:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello A/all,

There is a part of the book "All Quiet On The Western Front" where the former drill sergeant of the soldiers who had spent almost a year on the front line was sent to combat.  He was in charge of them based on military rankings, however, he knew absolutely nothing about how to survive in the trench warfare of world war 1.

He had more time in the military than any of the other soldiers, but they had more time in combat than he did.  I would not want the drill sergeant to be in charge.

And Im not sure what I feel about knowledge vs. experience.  From a weapon standpoint, I can read books and get my PhD on sword fighting, but does my extensive knowledge mean I will be able to use one?  I dont think so.  There is a kineasthetic aspect to WIITWD which cannot really be taught, and a person who cannot turn off their need to analyze things and just feel them probably will not be overly effective at being a Dominant, or for that matter, a submissive.

But that is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 9:56:08 PM   
Delightb32


Posts: 18
Status: offline 		I think my issue would be that experience doesn't really matter, does it?  Everyone starts at the beginning, and having started sooner has just as many disadvantages as it does advantages.  The more experience, the more scares and baggage.  Additionally, imagine your question in an academic setting.  One can read all about how to write a novel.  However, if a person has no practice writing, then the novel will probably be trash.  The same can be said of a novel written by someone who has no penchant for writing, period.  The best novels are written by those who practice writing in addition to having a natural knack for it.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 10:03:10 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline 		I am going to come from a different angle here and say that in my opinion ( and this is just MY OPINION ) knowledge of something does not equal experience. Just because some man has been 'reading' about caning for 2 years does not mean that he has experience in the act. Just because someone has 'read' a book abut sumbission and how to do it correctly, does not give that person experience in the act.
Think of it this way. You need to have major surgery; your surgeon has been reading on the subject for 10 years, but never actually performed a surgery. Are you going to let him cut into you? I know this is a bit extreme, but for me, the same rule applies to the lifestyle.
There is no way that I am letting someone touch me with a cane who has never used one before safely. No amount of book reading can equal real life experience in any aspect.
 
Again, this is just my own opinion on the subject.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 10:28:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I am going to come from a different angle here and say that in my opinion ( and this is just MY OPINION ) knowledge of something does not equal experience. Just because some man has been 'reading' about caning for 2 years does not mean that he has experience in the act. Just because someone has 'read' a book abut sumbission and how to do it correctly, does not give that person experience in the act.
Think of it this way. You need to have major surgery; your surgeon has been reading on the subject for 10 years, but never actually performed a surgery. Are you going to let him cut into you? I know this is a bit extreme, but for me, the same rule applies to the lifestyle.
There is no way that I am letting someone touch me with a cane who has never used one before safely. No amount of book reading can equal real life experience in any aspect.
 
Again, this is just my own opinion on the subject.


I absolutely agree with you, there comes a time when we have to do what it is that we do. I think that is why I specified that there were different aspects to this than the physical ones. Ds a mental exercise in many ways, it is not just kineasthetic, as Sinergy pointed out, that is only one aspect.

In my opinion, experience is great and necessary for certain aspects such as your caning example, or for using a single tailed whip. I would want my Dom to have practiced with a single tail extensively before using it on me.

My point is that someone that is an apprentice to a blacksmith, for example, will not even attempt to try to shape anything at first. There is a period of time usually in which they do everything BUT shaping even a horseshoe. Eventually they become more familiar with all the tools, and only then can they begin to help the smith more and more intimately, until taught the trade. I think of using time that you are not actively whipping someone, or being whipped by someone, as a time to grow in other ways to become a better dominant or submissive, and it is a form of experience, just as the apprentice is gaining knowledge by learning indirectly what a smith does is gaining experience.

I mostly agree with you, though, reading all day long will not make you a part of WIITWD until you start doing it in some form.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/13/2006 10:31:55 PM >

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/13/2006 10:30:08 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I am still very new to BDSM, no doubt about it, and I wouldn't claim otherwise! I just sometimes wonder how much weight one gives to willingness to learn and internalizing of knowledge V real life hands on experience... does the time we spend learning count for nothing?


That ultimately depends on what you are learning.



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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/14/2006 3:17:31 AM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am still very new to BDSM, no doubt about it, and I wouldn't claim otherwise! I just sometimes wonder how much weight one gives to willingness to learn and internalizing of knowledge V real life hands on experience... does the time we spend learning count for nothing?


NO, it counts! I have had every experience I have yet to imagine, and been in LTR as slave/Mistress and am in one now, though as Mistress only (sigh). I've been to clubs, TES meetings, parties, had a Master who was well known and active in the local scene (he owned a fetish shop, unfortunately after my release), have met some really fabulous people at events, some who are well known writers of books that I've read.  And I'm still learning.  There are those who have more experience those who have less, and I think the more you learn, the better your experience will be.  It's unlimited. Believe it or not, some the best things I've learned and most memorable experience came from exploring with those who had little experience at all.

Nina

Edited for stupidity...

< Message edited by NINASHARP -- 7/14/2006 3:19:21 AM >

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/14/2006 3:32:39 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		An interesting topic, but really, what does it matter?
How did the "experienced" people get that way? Same way as everybodyelse...a bit of theoretical knowledge and a bit of practical experimentation.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/14/2006 3:57:25 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

Yes, there is more than the physical exertion of particular kinks.  Much more that can be explored in a long distance fashion.  That said, I believe I'd rather present my backside to someone who'd done much research in the use of a cane (or any other implement) with no physical experience, than to someone that had never done the research or had physical experience.  Knowledge, afterall, is power.  Experience does count and have its place, but someone can say..."Oh, I've caned dozens of women." and he may well have.  But who's to say that he's done so safely?  The man who has taken time to gather information about it, including safety issues, will be more conscientious about his first experience, I'd think.  Of coure, there are always exceptions, but...generally speaking.

Everyone starts at the beginning, as someone pointed out earlier.  I don't mind a beginner, but I'd want him to, at the very least, have knowledge.

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: How Much Knowledge Adds to Experience - 7/14/2006 7:41:38 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You know I can think of ways this is correct feastie, a guy that has caned a dozen different bottoms very ineffectively may not know much about differing skin types and could damaged someone very badly, for example. The guy that had read about the fact that different skin types can take different amounts of impact would be looking carefully to see how the individual in front of them was responding to each thud.

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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