Can you tell me....

Can you tell me.... (Full Version)

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twitchelvi -> Can you tell me.... (12/18/2014 11:32:52 PM)
I have learned enough since joining here that I can see there is real potential to cause a Sub/Slave harm if a Dom/Master doesn't know or care what they are doing. I have decided that with my lack of knowledge and experience I would rather wait and learn a bit more before taking on a Sub/Slave than cause any lasting harm to someone. My interests are more of the mental side of things, obedience training, objectification, corner time, humiliation, etc., which some of can be hard to figure out when too much might actually be too much. Especially say, with the humiliation. If I find someone who says they are into being humiliated, how do I figure out where to take things or what might be to offensive? If I say something humiliating and find that they took it more personal than I expected and actually upset or even hurt them, what's the best way to deal with a situation like that? Sure, boundaries can be set in the beginning, but nobody can cover every situation that might come up or every thing that might be said. I have already posted in the "Ask a Submissive" section, but I am posting here as well, so that I can maybe get some answers from a Dom/Master's point of view. Maybe some of you might have a story of a Sub/Slave that had been previously damaged and how you dealt with it, a time you might have gone to far and how you fixed it. I do understand that I have a responsibility to provide a Sub with a safe environment and need to provide trust and security, so any advice or tips any here might have would be very appreciated.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/18/2014 11:46:32 PM)
Since your interests are more mental/emotional, I may actually be able to help. I'm in a similar situation. I'm not much of a sadist, although I do like "fucking with peoples' heads", in a fun way. The fact that you are concerned with not doing any real damage speaks volumes to the kind of person you are and (just to clarify) kudos to you, because of it. Unfortunately, the "answer" isn't quite so cut-and-dried. What you're talking about is a level of empathy and intuition that is directly inverse to how well your partner communicates their wishes, desires, limits, needs, etc, to you. Hopefully, when you meet someone whom you see as a potential partner, you are able to foster a level of openness from your partner which will prevent a lot of the mines from even being lain in this particular minefield. You do this by trying to be as non-judgmental as possible, when your partner does share with you. After you have done everything that you can to foster this openness, you still need to use that empathy and intuition I mentioned, earlier. You still have to be vigilant and take notice of your partner's behavior and comfort levels. Help is available, in the community, for those who ask. I hope I've been helpful and can be, again, in the future. Good luck. Michael

Gauge -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 7:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twitchelvi I have learned enough since joining here that I can see there is real potential to cause a Sub/Slave harm if a Dom/Master doesn't know or care what they are doing. I have decided that with my lack of knowledge and experience I would rather wait and learn a bit more before taking on a Sub/Slave than cause any lasting harm to someone. My interests are more of the mental side of things, obedience training, objectification, corner time, humiliation, etc., which some of can be hard to figure out when too much might actually be too much. Especially say, with the humiliation. If I find someone who says they are into being humiliated, how do I figure out where to take things or what might be to offensive? If I say something humiliating and find that they took it more personal than I expected and actually upset or even hurt them, what's the best way to deal with a situation like that? Sure, boundaries can be set in the beginning, but nobody can cover every situation that might come up or every thing that might be said. I have already posted in the "Ask a Submissive" section, but I am posting here as well, so that I can maybe get some answers from a Dom/Master's point of view. Maybe some of you might have a story of a Sub/Slave that had been previously damaged and how you dealt with it, a time you might have gone to far and how you fixed it. I do understand that I have a responsibility to provide a Sub with a safe environment and need to provide trust and security, so any advice or tips any here might have would be very appreciated. Communicate. Simple, one word answer. Your head is in the right place because you are being careful, and, like DaddySatyr said, you deserve some praise for that. My first attempt at humiliation play was a disaster because I fucked up and didn't communicate with her before I did it. I ended up hitting an area where it broke her down into tears, and it took hours of talking to her and comforting her before all was OK again, I learned a hard lesson that day. You cannot predict what all could potentially be off limits, however you can have some fairly deep discussions with your partner and get to know them and their background. Talk plainly about humiliation play and explain what it is, and discuss things that may be out of bounds. This is an area where it doesn't pay to think too highly of yourself to be above asking your submissive what is OK or not OK... I say that only to explain that the discussion part is not the time for any "roles" to come into play. Take it slow, carefully, and work up to where you want to be. Humiliation can also be non-verbal, so that is an option too.

Bhruic -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 7:47:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twitchelvi I have learned enough since joining here that I can see there is real potential to cause a Sub/Slave harm if a Dom/Master doesn't know or care what they are doing. I have decided that with my lack of knowledge and experience I would rather wait and learn a bit more before taking on a Sub/Slave than cause any lasting harm to someone. My interests are more of the mental side of things, obedience training, objectification, corner time, humiliation, etc., which some of can be hard to figure out when too much might actually be too much. Especially say, with the humiliation. If I find someone who says they are into being humiliated, how do I figure out where to take things or what might be to offensive? If I say something humiliating and find that they took it more personal than I expected and actually upset or even hurt them, what's the best way to deal with a situation like that? Sure, boundaries can be set in the beginning, but nobody can cover every situation that might come up or every thing that might be said. I have already posted in the "Ask a Submissive" section, but I am posting here as well, so that I can maybe get some answers from a Dom/Master's point of view. Maybe some of you might have a story of a Sub/Slave that had been previously damaged and how you dealt with it, a time you might have gone to far and how you fixed it. I do understand that I have a responsibility to provide a Sub with a safe environment and need to provide trust and security, so any advice or tips any here might have would be very appreciated. Good advice from the posters above. You might also want to take note of how they go to a new paragraph when they change gears, or talk about a different element of what they are already talking about. If you really want advice, it helps not to ask in block text. Many readers find it daunting and unpleasant to read. :)

NookieNotes -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 8:19:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge Talk plainly about humiliation play and explain what it is, and discuss things that may be out of bounds. This is an area where it doesn't pay to think too highly of yourself to be above asking your submissive what is OK or not OK... I say that only to explain that the discussion part is not the time for any "roles" to come into play. Something I like to point out, WHY someone loves humiliation and specific words can make a huge difference in doing it properly. For example: - Does a sub want to be humiliated for something that is true, that they feel ashamed of - Do they want to be humiliated for something they might feel/fear, but know is not true (and know YOU know it is not true) - Do they want to pretend to be someone who is humiliated by those things, to role play - Do they want to be humiliated to help take control over past hurts? These can lead to very different types of play, and the words you choose to use, not to mention whether you are willing to do it.

MariaB -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 2:30:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twitchelvi If I find someone who says they are into being humiliated, how do I figure out where to take things or what might be to offensive? The first thing I would do is sit them down and ask them to talk to me about their humiliation thoughts and fantasies. Humiliation is as broad and wide as a football pitch; from wonderfully subtle to blatantly in their face. What I wouldn't do, at least not at this stage, is start trying to find out why they like this sort of humiliation. They may tell you but let them offer that up rather than trying to dig. quote: If I say something humiliating and find that they took it more personal than I expected and actually upset or even hurt them, what's the best way to deal with a situation like that? That's why you don't go in like a bull in a china shop. You are the clue hunter and you work with the clues you have been given. Start off subtle and up close and monitor their reaction. Most subs will become flushed and their eyes will sparkle or dilate in anticipation; that's when you know you've got them and its game on. OMG how I miss this! Take things slowly but be careful not to display nervousness or that of being unsure. Submissives that enjoy humiliation, do so with someone they deem to be of strong character. If you hurt their feelings you will likely know immediately; change tactics and move them towards something you know they will enjoy. When its all over, cuddle up with them, stroke their hair and ask them to talk to you about what they just experienced. If they tell you they hated something don't fall to pieces, tell them you understand because honestly, that is all they need to hear. quote: Sure, boundaries can be set in the beginning, but nobody can cover every situation that might come up or every thing that might be said. I have already posted in the "Ask a Submissive" section, but I am posting here as well, so that I can maybe get some answers from a Dom/Master's point of view. Maybe some of you might have a story of a Sub/Slave that had been previously damaged and how you dealt with it, a time you might have gone to far and how you fixed it. I do understand that I have a responsibility to provide a Sub with a safe environment and need to provide trust and security, so any advice or tips any here might have would be very appreciated. No we can't cover every situation and lack of experience is a horrible beginning for a dominant. I know I made some crazy mistakes when I started this. I can remember going home and worrying about things. I have had one submissive who was clearly damaged from her past but that was in my early days and I was naive and couldn't at first see what was blatantly staring me in the face. Somehow I don't think you will have that problem. You must keep in mind, the majority of submissives aren't damaged. They may have a few hang ups that they talk to you about but that doesn't make them damaged. Don't try and look for something that isn't their. Sounds like you have got your head screwed on the right way and you understand the basic principles of how this works. You need to lose this nervousness and you need to be careful not to become a rescuer because white knights and nervous dominants are never in control of a relationship.

DesFIP -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 3:51:29 PM)
No matter how slow you go or carefully you proceed, you will fuck up and hit a sore spot. Even if she tells you what not to say, there will be things that she won't know will elicit a bad response. So plan for that. Are you going to be cold or will you stop play, hold her and tell her how much she does matter? Will you remember not to touch on that in the future? Will you make sure the next time you play, it's enjoyable for her? Accept that you are both fallible human beings and plan to solve the problems that you will cause.

twitchelvi -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/19/2014 4:43:42 PM)
Love all the input I get whenever I post here, it's very helpful! I think I have picked up a few important points here, some are the type where its something so obvious we tend to look right past them. First, simple communication. I have been taking humiliation very literally, and not viewing it as more of a type of play. In other words, if someone had told me they were into humiliation, I was more than ready to really do it! Like Nookie said, its best to find out why they want it, and what they are really looking for. DesFIP said to that I should realize that no matter how I go about it, I will fuck up at some point. It actually helps hearing from those of you who have said you have fucked up in the past. So in other words, go for it, just be ready. And Maria, I am not going to try and be a rescuer or white knight, I just don't want to be a wrecking ball or demolition crew! Last, Brhuic, I do listen to all advice good or bad, so thanks. See, no block text here!

DesFIP -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/20/2014 2:47:44 PM)
Even vanillas say things that hurt their partner. What matters is always what happens next. Apologizing is a start, not doing it again is what matters. Because that shows that your partner's feelings matter to you, and that you don't want to cause them distress.

FieryOpal -> RE: Can you tell me.... (12/26/2014 1:48:08 AM)
[Brackets mine] quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Something I like to point out, WHY someone loves humiliation and specific words can make a huge difference in doing it properly. For example: [1] - Does a sub want to be humiliated for something that is true, that they feel ashamed of [2] - Do they want to be humiliated for something they might feel/fear, but know is not true (and know YOU know it is not true) [3] - Do they want to pretend to be someone who is humiliated by those things, to role play [4] - Do they want to be humiliated to help take control over past hurts? These can lead to very different types of play, and the words you choose to use, not to mention whether you are willing to do it. Short of having known somebody very well prior to getting into a humiliation dynamic with her/him, talking about limits and off-limits areas frequently is absolutely necessary. Chances are, your sub isn't going to safe word with you if and when you hit a psychological trigger. Some s-types act as if safe-wording is the same as saying "uncle," when it isn't at all. OP, the fact that you are conscientious about this matter is a good thing. I'll try to be as brief as possible and stick to what I know from my own (limited) personal experiences with a couple of subs (IRT-In Real Time and/or on-line interactions). I might also add that aside from kidding or joking around (which you still need to be careful with anybody in terms of sensitive spots), my initial motivation was to use this as a tool to further solidify the D/s dynamic between my then husband and myself. Otherwise, I was not inclined to go there. If it would have undermined this goal in any fashion, then none of it would have ever transpired. Also, it would be helpful to establish your own personal no-go zones in this regard. Consensuality includes you, and your better judgment. If engaging in this dynamic makes you end up feeling crappy about yourself, then stop doing it. Err on the side of mildness. I have a personal rule that for every demeaning remark or instruction (what I would consider to be demeaning, since your sub may have a totally different perspective on this), I lace it with a counter-balancing mechanism that is either complimentary, affectionate, or indicative of positive reassurance. For example, you may tell yourself it's not swift to ever speak to a female about being "fat" or "worthless," not just because there's no redeeming value in saying such things, but these are high-trigger areas. Rather than impulsively calling anybody a "fat pig" or a "worthless slut," which stirs up rejection (and why would you want to make your sub feel rejected or non-consensually degraded, other than unintentionally if and when discipline/correction is warranted). In other words, temper your words as appropriate, with a ring of truth to them as well. Telling a woman you hardly know she is your "cute little piglet" or "cuddly little cub" or a "sexy, little slut" will come across as lame if you are not convincing. Items 1 and 2 above are tricky. If the humiliation topic is unequivocally untrue, then your attempts will fall flat. For instance, a man who is well-endowed is going to find SPH-Small Penis Humiliation laughable, and so will his partner. Their interactions will feel silly and fakey. Humiliation is only effective when there is an element of truth to it, no matter how remote and/or universal. What you do with that element of truth, is where the Dominant's discretion and sense of responsibility enter in. Make it a routine to ask for feedback or call a time out to discuss thoroughly before causing any potential damage. Ask yourself whether what you do or say will undermine your sub's sense of worth and value. You're the Dominant. You don't do what your sub wants which could negatively impact her/his self-esteem. You tear down to build back up. Analysis without synthesis will leave you with a hundred scattered clock parts which you can't put back together again to make a functioning timepiece anymore. (See Item 4 above) As for Item 3, there are Dominants who use humiliation for their own amusement. A sub friend of mine used to engage with chatroom Dommes who had proclaimed that "Men are pigs" and wanted him to get down on his hands & knees to role play that he was a pig and start oinking. When I asked him why did he want to be humiliated in this way, he told me that he didn't find it humiliating to do as they asked. They wanted to be amused, and he liked how this made them laugh. He even went so far as to start getting into wearing animal costumes as in furry play. In his case, his motivation was not getting humiliated but getting attention by pleasing these women.

IcarusBurning -> RE: Can you tell me.... (2/24/2015 10:02:45 PM)
first up, i think its very admirable that you show such depth of concern for your sub's feelings, and go so far as to hold your own instincts back for their good. we could use more souls like you. i think there are 2 steps to TRY and make this go better. firstly, talk. talk a lot to your sub / slave before starting off even the first scene. get to know her background, her emotional past, where is she coming from. this is wayy harder than it sounds, because most of us are not psychologists. but if you communicate openly, you might start getting a clue on to why a submissive wants to be treated a certain way. sometimes (and actually very often in conservative societies) submissives themselves dont know where precisely they are coming from. they want to be humiliated or dehumanized out of some repressed, lost feeling, but once it hits them they break down unable to take the skeletons in brings out from within them. you, as a wise and caring dominant as you are, need to try to figure out what is prompting the submissive to ask for such treatment, and whether she really understands the consequences. that being said, its not going to work always. heck, it might work even less than half the time. when you actually go about a scene, even acts that were discussed and mutually agreed upon may turn out to be much more intense , physically or emotionally, than either of you expected. at such times it is very important to read your submissive's reactions, hold safewords as sacred, and even pick up on cues from the sub that indicate she is in actual pain or torment. draw the line then and there, even if she is not actually asking it to be stopped. provide aftercare, talk to her, ask her what she was really feeling. it takes years, decades, sometimes a lifetime to figure out a synergy between 2 humans. you head is in the right place, you will only get better with experience.

AlabamaPrincess -> RE: Can you tell me.... (2/25/2015 5:41:49 AM)
I am not a Dom/Master, just a sub, however I just wanted to add my 2 cents. In O/our house, He is incredibly aware of my past pains and triggers. After every play session (W/we don't do humiliation, but the toys come out! haha) and after my sub drop, we talk....A LOT. He asks many questions, such as the obvious "Are you ok?" and "How are you feeling?" but also the "What did you like best?" and "How did you feel?" many times it's "Where are your thoughts, now?" and I also talk about what was fun, or what could, if escalated, be bad later. As everyone said, it's all about communication. We have been going incredibly slow in our journey, taking time to really enjoy and communicate with each other. Something we never did in other relationships (vanilla or not).

Kana -> RE: Can you tell me.... (2/28/2015 9:31:51 PM)
Yeah-not everyone likes questions though. Some, they freak out. No questions at all, especially in or immediately post play. It knocks them right the fuck out of their head space or never lets them get in there. Just saying. Each case is its own case and contains its own rules and dynamic. That's the one true rule of BDSM. All else is optional. Humiliation play is tapdancing in the minefield of someones head. Better know that person well or have Moves Like Jagger if you plan to have any chance of surviving. Grins-and its almost inevitable that someones gonna misstep and get their leg blown off sooner or later-you're gonna say the wrong thing/do the wrong thing/not say something/not do something/catch her in a bad emotional spot/run across something that you've nailed a 100,000 times before and today it explodes. These things happen. Sure are messy to clean up though. Lots of tears. Lots of heartache. Teeth aching patience involved on my behalf usually too Afterwards, I tend to be sure sanctification is inevitable for me, dealing with what I do :-) As for the OP-One bulemia is a mental illness. He should have known better giving orders there, especially right off the bat. He set himself up for failure and shockingly it blew up in his face. You're better off without and its best you found out quick before you wasted lots of time and became emotionally really invested. Personally, its speaks of a shallow character. A-To assume someone would change a long term habit on an instant (I mean does that not smack of false pride and vanity?)for someone they just met, and B-When they fucked up and did the right thing and came clean, you just desert them w/o so much as a word. Yeah. The error made was in selecting Him as an option, not in acting on your issue He failed the litmus test. Bye bye. Live, learn, move the fuck on and don't make the same mistake again and don't beat yourself up too much for the mistake. These things happen. C'est la vie.

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