RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it.

RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 9:11:37 AM)
LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that.

Lucylastic -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 9:13:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic If it was only a "sexual fetish" issue, it would be understandable, It goes much further beyond a sexual fetish, its getting to be far more dangerous. Just going on the OP and his "posts" there is nothing sexual about it.... paranoia, fear and wilful ignorance. That works. You did note the statement about which folks have the problems, right? Simple case of projection. for someone who has me on ignore, you are a chicken shit projector.

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 12:40:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that. I don't doubt you that you don't fear or loath guns but I don't think this thread is a testiment to anything like what you suggested. I doubt if there is anyone here who doesn't cringe when 20 kids are slaughtered by some idiot no matter how he does it or any other heinus gun crime. The issue with me is the fact that nothing being proposed here would have any effect what so ever in curbing gun crimes. Even background checks for new gun purchases which we all support won't have much effect. They might have more effect if we arrested on the spot and then prosecuted disqualified idiots who try to buy them through a legal vendor as well as other laws on the books we currently don't enforce. The gun availability ship sailed quite a few decades ago. Without a full blown police state and a confiscation scheme, nothing will work to curb the availability of guns. And I somewhat doubt that would entirely work so well either. Some of the things that I think would help have been discussed on other threads, but those on the other side of the issue object. I object to curbing my rights rather than going directly after the idiots who misuse firearms. Many of us on my side of the issue grew up with guns around the home and owned them ourselves at a very early age. It's not hard to spot all the misconceptions and total bullshit concerning firearms. It's one reason why I tend to post more on gun threads than on other issues, I don't have to go chasing down links and facts all the time to prove my point because I usually know the answers. The gun problem in the US is actually far more complicated than just guns.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 1:55:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that. I don't doubt you that you don't fear or loath guns but I don't think this thread is a testiment to anything like what you suggested. I doubt if there is anyone here who doesn't cringe when 20 kids are slaughtered by some idiot no matter how he does it or any other heinus gun crime. The issue with me is the fact that nothing being proposed here would have any effect what so ever in curbing gun crimes. Even background checks for new gun purchases which we all support won't have much effect. They might have more effect if we arrested on the spot and then prosecuted disqualified idiots who try to buy them through a legal vendor as well as other laws on the books we currently don't enforce. The gun availability ship sailed quite a few decades ago. Without a full blown police state and a confiscation scheme, nothing will work to curb the availability of guns. And I somewhat doubt that would entirely work so well either. Some of the things that I think would help have been discussed on other threads, but those on the other side of the issue object. I object to curbing my rights rather than going directly after the idiots who misuse firearms. Many of us on my side of the issue grew up with guns around the home and owned them ourselves at a very early age. It's not hard to spot all the misconceptions and total bullshit concerning firearms. It's one reason why I tend to post more on gun threads than on other issues, I don't have to go chasing down links and facts all the time to prove my point because I usually know the answers. The gun problem in the US is actually far more complicated than just guns. Two things here...it's rather disingenuous to suggest,even just a little ,that 20 kids getting slaughtered happens any other way but by gun violence The second thing is you seem to be suggesting that since there's already so many guns why try to slow down the pipeline ? That has my head shaking,seems to me the bar that you guys set is that if it won't stop all gun violence then lets not try to stop any Perfection being the enemy of good ? I lied,three things....the third and final being this....all you guys talk about our current gun laws and how ineffectual they actually are,there's two reasons for this 1) local ordinances don't stop out of state guns from coming in state...so it's a national strategy that is needed. 2) most gun laws are written so as not to push too hard at the NRA,lest they push back...in effect the gun lobby,the gun manufacturer's have written these laws and written them in such a way as to ensure that they don't prove too onerous to the manufacturer's

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 3:10:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that. I don't doubt you that you don't fear or loath guns but I don't think this thread is a testiment to anything like what you suggested. I doubt if there is anyone here who doesn't cringe when 20 kids are slaughtered by some idiot no matter how he does it or any other heinus gun crime. The issue with me is the fact that nothing being proposed here would have any effect what so ever in curbing gun crimes. Even background checks for new gun purchases which we all support won't have much effect. They might have more effect if we arrested on the spot and then prosecuted disqualified idiots who try to buy them through a legal vendor as well as other laws on the books we currently don't enforce. The gun availability ship sailed quite a few decades ago. Without a full blown police state and a confiscation scheme, nothing will work to curb the availability of guns. And I somewhat doubt that would entirely work so well either. Some of the things that I think would help have been discussed on other threads, but those on the other side of the issue object. I object to curbing my rights rather than going directly after the idiots who misuse firearms. Many of us on my side of the issue grew up with guns around the home and owned them ourselves at a very early age. It's not hard to spot all the misconceptions and total bullshit concerning firearms. It's one reason why I tend to post more on gun threads than on other issues, I don't have to go chasing down links and facts all the time to prove my point because I usually know the answers. The gun problem in the US is actually far more complicated than just guns. Two things here...it's rather disingenuous to suggest,even just a little ,that 20 kids getting slaughtered happens any other way but by gun violence The second thing is you seem to be suggesting that since there's already so many guns why try to slow down the pipeline ? That has my head shaking,seems to me the bar that you guys set is that if it won't stop all gun violence then lets not try to stop any Perfection being the enemy of good ? I lied,three things....the third and final being this....all you guys talk about our current gun laws and how ineffectual they actually are,there's two reasons for this 1) local ordinances don't stop out of state guns from coming in state...so it's a national strategy that is needed. 2) most gun laws are written so as not to push too hard at the NRA,lest they push back...in effect the gun lobby,the gun manufacturer's have written these laws and written them in such a way as to ensure that they don't prove too onerous to the manufacturer's Right off Mike, on your first point, the OKC bomb took out an entire day care. I'm guessing there were 20 or more kids killed in that. When the World Trade Towers came down I'm going to speculate at least 20 kids perished there too. Just because it seems murdering kids happens more often with firearms, it's really not hard to prove there are much more effective means of murdering 10, 20 or 100 times or more kids than at Sandy Hook. On your second point you're missing my point. Trying to slow down the pipeline with ineffective laws that primarily only effect law abiding gun owners is not the answer. Even if you stopped all new gun sales in the US tomorrow there are enough of them already out there to supply a black market for decades. And that doesn't even take into account the millions of surplus military arms stockpiled all over the world just waiting for entrepreneurs to smuggle them in. Not only can we not stop the supply of drugs from coming in, we can't even stop the resupply. What makes you think you're going to stop the guns ? Guns are reusable. Ya can't snort an AK 47 up your nose[8D] On the third point there is actually a reason you left out why current gun laws are ineffective. We don't enforce all of them (see above). Out of state guns coming into states with tougher gun laws so you need a national strategy ?? See above on your first point missing my point. We would need a world strategy assuming that it would work so much better than the drug strategy. On number 2) of point 3, it's so easy to play the NRA boogyman card but you're so far off the mark on that one I wouldn't know where to begin. ETA: Once again I'll say that the gun problem is far more complicated than being just about the guns.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 3:38:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that. I don't doubt you that you don't fear or loath guns but I don't think this thread is a testiment to anything like what you suggested. I doubt if there is anyone here who doesn't cringe when 20 kids are slaughtered by some idiot no matter how he does it or any other heinus gun crime. The issue with me is the fact that nothing being proposed here would have any effect what so ever in curbing gun crimes. Even background checks for new gun purchases which we all support won't have much effect. They might have more effect if we arrested on the spot and then prosecuted disqualified idiots who try to buy them through a legal vendor as well as other laws on the books we currently don't enforce. The gun availability ship sailed quite a few decades ago. Without a full blown police state and a confiscation scheme, nothing will work to curb the availability of guns. And I somewhat doubt that would entirely work so well either. Some of the things that I think would help have been discussed on other threads, but those on the other side of the issue object. I object to curbing my rights rather than going directly after the idiots who misuse firearms. Many of us on my side of the issue grew up with guns around the home and owned them ourselves at a very early age. It's not hard to spot all the misconceptions and total bullshit concerning firearms. It's one reason why I tend to post more on gun threads than on other issues, I don't have to go chasing down links and facts all the time to prove my point because I usually know the answers. The gun problem in the US is actually far more complicated than just guns. Two things here...it's rather disingenuous to suggest,even just a little ,that 20 kids getting slaughtered happens any other way but by gun violence The second thing is you seem to be suggesting that since there's already so many guns why try to slow down the pipeline ? That has my head shaking,seems to me the bar that you guys set is that if it won't stop all gun violence then lets not try to stop any Perfection being the enemy of good ? I lied,three things....the third and final being this....all you guys talk about our current gun laws and how ineffectual they actually are,there's two reasons for this 1) local ordinances don't stop out of state guns from coming in state...so it's a national strategy that is needed. 2) most gun laws are written so as not to push too hard at the NRA,lest they push back...in effect the gun lobby,the gun manufacturer's have written these laws and written them in such a way as to ensure that they don't prove too onerous to the manufacturer's First, I didn't see anything suggesting that 20 kids being slaughtered was due to something other than gun violence...unless you mean where someone stated that the responsibility lies on the perpetrator, not his tool. 2. I can't speak for the person you're responding to but I can speak for myself. I'm one of those guys...I own a gun...But I'm not one of "you guys" suggesting there's nothing to be done. I haven't seen any suggesting that...unless you're reading the various statements about going after the perpetrators of these crimes rather than those conducting their business legally as a statement to do nothing? 3. Finally...no one has said anything about the gun laws being ineffectual. What they have said is that any law is ineffectual if it is NOT ENFORCED. Enforce those laws already on the books. But once again, what you propose in the first case goes against the rights of the citizens of one state to set their own laws. And just what good would a national set of laws do? And since it would be Federal law, who'd enforce these gun laws? The D. O. J.? Yes...check how well they did with guns in Fast and Furious. The A. T. F.? They're stretched pretty tight right now...how are you going to pay for the new hires? As to the second part of your statent about the gun laws serving the NRA...almost all laws regarding products serve some interest, mike. Cite your source that definitively proves that every states gun laws were written by the N.R.A. because I know that in at least one state...mine...they did NOT write the law concerning the size of the ammo magazine. As a matter of fact, that one law pushed a company and its jobs out of the state.

BamaD -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 4:25:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL I have no fear or loathing of guns, no matter what YOU think or suggest is the truth. And you are being just as full of bullshit and hypocrisy about the "left". Loathing is too strong a word, ....maybe but only of the idiots who use them with little regard for anyone elses life or rights...and those that dont give a shit. and whinge no one "gets" them. This thread is testament to that. I don't doubt you that you don't fear or loath guns but I don't think this thread is a testiment to anything like what you suggested. I doubt if there is anyone here who doesn't cringe when 20 kids are slaughtered by some idiot no matter how he does it or any other heinus gun crime. The issue with me is the fact that nothing being proposed here would have any effect what so ever in curbing gun crimes. Even background checks for new gun purchases which we all support won't have much effect. They might have more effect if we arrested on the spot and then prosecuted disqualified idiots who try to buy them through a legal vendor as well as other laws on the books we currently don't enforce. The gun availability ship sailed quite a few decades ago. Without a full blown police state and a confiscation scheme, nothing will work to curb the availability of guns. And I somewhat doubt that would entirely work so well either. Some of the things that I think would help have been discussed on other threads, but those on the other side of the issue object. I object to curbing my rights rather than going directly after the idiots who misuse firearms. Many of us on my side of the issue grew up with guns around the home and owned them ourselves at a very early age. It's not hard to spot all the misconceptions and total bullshit concerning firearms. It's one reason why I tend to post more on gun threads than on other issues, I don't have to go chasing down links and facts all the time to prove my point because I usually know the answers. The gun problem in the US is actually far more complicated than just guns. Two things here...it's rather disingenuous to suggest,even just a little ,that 20 kids getting slaughtered happens any other way but by gun violence The second thing is you seem to be suggesting that since there's already so many guns why try to slow down the pipeline ? That has my head shaking,seems to me the bar that you guys set is that if it won't stop all gun violence then lets not try to stop any Perfection being the enemy of good ? I lied,three things....the third and final being this....all you guys talk about our current gun laws and how ineffectual they actually are,there's two reasons for this 1) local ordinances don't stop out of state guns from coming in state...so it's a national strategy that is needed. 2) most gun laws are written so as not to push too hard at the NRA,lest they push back...in effect the gun lobby,the gun manufacturer's have written these laws and written them in such a way as to ensure that they don't prove too onerous to the manufacturer's They don't enforce the laws they have, passing 100 laws won't do anything if they aren't enforced. So before we pass new ones let's try enforcing the ones we have. For some reason anti-gunners are only interested in getting more laws, all aimed at legitimate owners (trickle down law enforcement) than enforcing the ones we have. Could it be they are afraid that the laws they have passed will work and get rid the "need" for more laws? Or maybe if they do that they will no longer get money from the anti-gun lobby? Or could it be that they think just passing a law is enough and paying attention to enforcement is just boring.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 4:49:15 PM)
So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I think we pretty much outlawed being a terrorist already,but if you have some suggestions for the group on how we can go about cutting that number down,just offer 'em,we'll listen Right now the discussion is guns and what can be done about that ,other than just sitting around waiting for the next one,yanno

BamaD -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 4:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I think we pretty much outlawed being a terrorist already,but if you have some suggestions for the group on how we can go about cutting that number down,just offer 'em,we'll listen Right now the discussion is guns and what can be done about that ,other than just sitting around waiting for the next one,yanno You do understand that you have not addressed what anyone has said, just what you expected them to say don't you?

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:03:35 PM)
quote: CreativeDominant I can't speak for the person you're responding to......... Yes, you can speak for that person[8D]

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:05:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I think we pretty much outlawed being a terrorist already,but if you have some suggestions for the group on how we can go about cutting that number down,just offer 'em,we'll listen Right now the discussion is guns and what can be done about that ,other than just sitting around waiting for the next one,yanno You do understand that you have not addressed what anyone has said, just what you expected them to say don't you? I addressed Luvmuffin Bama,try to keep up [8\|]

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:13:14 PM)
quote: slvemike4u I think we pretty much outlawed being a terrorist already....... Was that before or after OKC and 9-11 ?

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:18:08 PM)
If pressed I'm going to go with before,final answer [8\|] got a point ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:26:39 PM)
quote: slvemike4u So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I wasn't making any frequency differential comparisons. I was addressing your point but I think you missed mine. I'll put it another way. There are a crap load of other ways, to kill a crap load of people, kids and/or adults, than small arms. For the purposes of this discussion, I wasn't aware that terrorists don't count. What if a terrorist uses a gun to kill ? Does that count ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 5:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u If pressed I'm going to go with before,final answer [8\|] got a point ? Well.....uh...yeah, if ya outlawed terrorism and it didn't stop OKC or 9-11, what makes you think passing some gun law/laws is going to stop idiots from committing mass murder with a gun ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 6:19:20 PM)
quote: Slvemike4u Right now the discussion is guns and what can be done about that ,other than just sitting around waiting for the next one,yanno I've been trying to discuss guns and the logic of things you have proposed. After Sandy Hook there were several threads where there were short and long term proposals from pro gun folks that would curb the frequency of school shootings but you guys on the other side of the issue would have none of it. Over all, the best thing we could do at the moment, and I'm not sure if anyone has ever mentioned this before, is, are ya ready for it..............ENFORCE THE FREAKIN LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE ON THE BOOKS before we start running around like the Keystone Cops making new ones. There are literally tens of thousands of disqualified would be gun buyers who are thwarted by background checks. Do ya really think they just throw their hands up in the air and say to themselves "oh well, I guess I'll never be able to get a gun now" ? How much easier could it get for law enforcement to have the gun law breaker right there at the point of sale waiting to be arrested ? Prosecute these sons-a-bitches and throw em in jail where they can't shoot people.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 6:28:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: slvemike4u So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I wasn't making any frequency differential comparisons. I was addressing your point but I think you missed mine. I'll put it another way. There are a crap load of other ways, to kill a crap load of people, kids and/or adults, than small arms. For the purposes of this discussion, I wasn't aware that terrorists don't count. What if a terrorist uses a gun to kill ? Does that count ? So terrorism is now the subject...yes there are other ways to kill....but the weapon of choice,in this country,seems to be guns...so let's not pretend we are talking about anything else.....okay [8\|]

BamaD -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 6:28:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So you really ,really want to compare the frequency differentials between terrorist attacks and mass shootings ,that really what you want to do muffin? I think we pretty much outlawed being a terrorist already,but if you have some suggestions for the group on how we can go about cutting that number down,just offer 'em,we'll listen Right now the discussion is guns and what can be done about that ,other than just sitting around waiting for the next one,yanno You do understand that you have not addressed what anyone has said, just what you expected them to say don't you? I addressed Luvmuffin Bama,try to keep up [8\|] Duh, I know that.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 6:30:49 PM)
So why state that I didn't address anything anyone said ? Isn't Luvmuffin an actual someone ? If you were bitching that I didn't quite get around to what you said....well she came first . Be patient....I'll get to you in my own good time(some of which was wasted responding to your silly post)

BamaD -> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. (1/6/2015 6:37:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So why state that I didn't address anything anyone said ? Isn't Luvmuffin an actual someone ? If you were bitching that I didn't quite get around to what you said....well she came first . Be patient....I'll get to you in my own good time(some of which was wasted responding to your silly post) Because you either stupidly or deliberately missed the whole point. Since I don't assume you are stupid I have to accept that it was on purpose. Why won't you address the fact that current laws are not being enforced? Why won't you even answer as to why you only want laws going after legitimate buyers and refuse to even talk about going after people who misuse firearms. You seem blindly dedicated to trickle down law enforcement. PS According to Lovemuffin's profile HE is male, or is that one of the things where your great knowledge overrides what he believes?

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