RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero"

RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 6:48:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Obama is a "rightie," now? Did you not read the OP? • Instead of fortifying his legacy with economic populism, Obama has presided over an economic “recovery” where only the rich have benefited – the first “recovery” of its kind. • It speaks volumes that President Obama agreed to cut food stamps by $8.7 billion and WIC by $93 million, but committed to spending $1 trillion over the next 30 years to upgrade our nuclear weapons stockpile. • The rich are richer than ever before, • President Obama has masterfully steered the benefits of the recovery to only the wealthy, while the net worth of average working Americans has dropped by 40 percent since before the recession. Today’s middle class is actually poorer than it was in 1989, • The Dow Jones closed above 18,000 this week – the highest ever. And yet, despite an apparently surging economy, 95 percent of income gains since 2009 have gone to the richest 1 percent. Not even Ronald Reagan’s economic policies created inequality on that scale. Yes, I did, but, those things aren't indicative of a "rightie." Those things, generally, are indicative of a politician, from either party. Be careful how you answer, though. You might be called a racist for not supporting the President.

Musicmystery -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 6:55:43 AM)
No, they aren't. They are characteristic of a Reagan style conservative. That's the point. Your racism crack is just bullshit. As I noted in the OP, even the article's attempt there is thin at best.

DesideriScuri -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 7:38:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery No, they aren't. They are characteristic of a Reagan style conservative. That's the point. Your racism crack is just bullshit. As I noted in the OP, even the article's attempt there is thin at best. The racism charge against those who disagree with the President almost always is bullshit. You're right about that. I disagree with the characterization of President Obama being a conservative, and stand by my assertions that all politicians, from either party, line up to kneel at the feet of Big Biz, Big Money, the 1%-ers, etc.

RottenJohnny -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 7:42:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I disagree with the characterization of President Obama being a conservative, and stand by my assertions that all politicians, from either party, line up to kneel at the feet of Big Biz, Big Money, the 1%-ers, etc. Bullseye.

TheHeretic -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 8:01:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Sorry you weren't able to address the content instead. The content was amateur hour bullshit hash. Something from a student you are fucking, perhaps? I pointed out the gaping hole in the premise when I joined the thread, and don't see a reason to give it more. No, what struck me here was that you, the once respected Musicmystery, are posting racebaiting shit like this. Enjoy the company you choose to keep.

Musicmystery -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 8:27:28 AM)
Again, you're ignoring the point and the content. As for "racebaiting," I made clear in the OP I didn't buy the "white" part, and why--another point you're ignoring. More interesting is the list of Reagan-style (and some Bush) objectives/consequences that Obama pursued and accomplished full-throttle (among the reasons I call him Bush Lite). And yet...these are now "liberal" accomplishments. It speaks to the surreal quality of the "debate." I'd be interested as well in a list of accomplishments from recent Republican presidents that are really liberal objectives. That's the discussion. If you want to play it Sanity-style, your business, but I'm not playing that game. If you'd like to get into why the points of the article are crap, splendid.

cloudboy -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 8:50:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery More interesting is the list of Reagan-style (and some Bush) objectives/consequences that Obama pursued and accomplished full-throttle (among the reasons I call him Bush Lite). And yet...these are now "liberal" accomplishments. It speaks to the surreal quality of the "debate." I'd be interested as well in a list of accomplishments from recent Republican presidents that are really liberal objectives. The point of the article is identity politics. Identity is much more important than substance. Another parallel example is how people on the street overwhelmingly endorse the fundamentals of ACA until it's called Obamacare. quote: That's the discussion. If you want to play it Sanity-style, your business, but I'm not playing that game. If you'd like to get into why the points of the article are crap, splendid. The irony is he "hates" Sanity and doesn't like his posting. It's just too funny for words.

cloudboy -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 8:53:47 AM)
Another name for that is liaise fare economics.

TheHeretic -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 8:58:52 AM)
Y'know, Muse, there are these old friends on my Facebook page who share some pretty hateful liberal propaganda pieces, and disclaim it with a "I don't agree with all the hatespeak, but the rest is ok," statement. Just ignore the bigotry of the author, and the hateful worldview, and see how cleverly the fruit basket of apples and oranges has been arranged, and what hip joke is referenced in the pose of the strawman. If I find myself with the time for a conversation at the keys, I'm sure a better table can be found than the one you set.

GoddessManko -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 11:00:41 AM)
That is debatable, I know a local doctor with 90 employees who is all about Obama and gave him thousands for his campaign both times. He is more than slightly frustrated by Congress's seeming unwillingness to compromise and the allowance of it post 2008 almost crashing of the global markets. Yea, that happened. He too said Obama is the best republican president the Republicans have ever had, including with the Affordable Care Act which benefitted by and in large, red states. His words, to quote him, "if Obama said he loves his mama, they would say I hate my mama!" LOL quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Gee...imagine...an article by someone from the farrr left seeing Obama as conservative. Just goes to show it all depends which side of the spectrum you are on and how far along that side of the spectrum.

Musicmystery -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 11:20:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Y'know, Muse, there are these old friends on my Facebook page who share some pretty hateful liberal propaganda pieces, and disclaim it with a "I don't agree with all the hatespeak, but the rest is ok," statement. Just ignore the bigotry of the author, and the hateful worldview, and see how cleverly the fruit basket of apples and oranges has been arranged, and what hip joke is referenced in the pose of the strawman. If I find myself with the time for a conversation at the keys, I'm sure a better table can be found than the one you set. You're wearing your shaded glasses, Rich. Nothing "hateful" in my OP, just a note that, among the bullshit I've already noted, he has a point about "conservative" objectives and Obama's record, similar (but now beyond) the Gingrich lament. What's also sad about "debate" today is the either/or approach--it's all good, or it's all crap. Real life is more complicated than the sound-bytes. If you want to pass on the discussion, your choice. If you want to come by to pretend to shit, but without any substance, you're shitting irony.

DesideriScuri -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 3:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Another name for that is liaise fare economics. As usual, you're wrong. Laissez-faire: quote: economics : a policy that allows businesses to operate with very little interference from the government Full Definition of LAISSEZ-FAIRE 1 : a doctrine opposing governmental interference in economic affairs beyond the minimum necessary for the maintenance of peace and property rights 2 : a philosophy or practice characterized by a usually deliberate abstention from direction or interference especially with individual freedom of choice and action ... Origin of LAISSEZ-FAIRE French laissez faire, imperative of laisser faire to let (people) do (as they choose) First Known Use: 1825 Laissez-faire quote: ... is an economic system in which transactions between private parties are free from intrusive government restrictions, tariffs, and subsidies, with only enough regulations to protect property rights. The phrase laissez-faire is French and literally means "let [them] do," but it broadly implies "let it be," "let them do as they will," or "leave it alone." So, Government support of business (outside of property rights protection) isn't really laissez-faire economics.

Zonie63 -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 4:01:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I disagree with the characterization of President Obama being a conservative, and stand by my assertions that all politicians, from either party, line up to kneel at the feet of Big Biz, Big Money, the 1%-ers, etc. Would that mean that all politicians are conservative? [:D]

DesideriScuri -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 4:07:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I disagree with the characterization of President Obama being a conservative, and stand by my assertions that all politicians, from either party, line up to kneel at the feet of Big Biz, Big Money, the 1%-ers, etc. Would that mean that all politicians are conservative? [:D] I see your smiley face, and secretively (and hope that no one else sees me doing it) point to the section you quoted that includes "from either party." [:D]

cloudboy -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 6:32:37 PM)
Free markets without government intervention lead to monopoly and a full scale wealth transfer to the 1% if not the .01%.

GoddessManko -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 6:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Free markets without government intervention lead to monopoly and a full scale wealth transfer to the 1% if not the .01%. 100% correct, in fact it would no longer be capitalism but corporate imperialism. Fair wages, benefits, the things that prevent abject poverty and promote gratuitous purchasing power= bye bye. The current markets are more deregulated than Adam Smith would have ever intentioned but it has accommodated our growing population. The issue is when there is a lack of evolution of the markets for sake of sustainability. The Keynesian dynamic is the same as the basic business model, short term investment, long term return. And we have largely untapped gigantic money making sectors which are not being appropriated funding because certain individuals think shutting down the government and costing the country $24 billion dollars is a better idea. But I digress. I refuse to get back on that soapbox, LOL.

DesideriScuri -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 6:56:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Free markets without government intervention lead to monopoly and a full scale wealth transfer to the 1% if not the .01%. Hey, cloudboy, why not read what was written? See that little part about "very little interference from government?" Yeah. Thought so. Let's also not forget that many of the biggest companies lobby Congress for legislation that. essentially, prohibits competition; competition is a mainstay of Capitalism. Aaaaand, while we're at it, let's also not forget that as important as profits are to Capitalism, losses are just as important. But, when government steps in and bails out companies (Bush really pissed me off in '08 with Bear Stearns and then the auto companies), you, once again, cause market distortions that can not be called Capitalism.

Zonie63 -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 7:09:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I disagree with the characterization of President Obama being a conservative, and stand by my assertions that all politicians, from either party, line up to kneel at the feet of Big Biz, Big Money, the 1%-ers, etc. Would that mean that all politicians are conservative? [:D] I see your smiley face, and secretively (and hope that no one else sees me doing it) point to the section you quoted that includes "from either party." [:D] True, but you say "from either party" as if it actually makes a difference. [:D] Seriously though, I don't see how a politician could really avoid it, even those who go into politics for supposedly the right reasons (from either party). If they're in one of the major parties, they'll need the support of their national party leadership - and lots of money to pay for all those commercials we get bombarded with every campaign season. Ideologically, there really isn't all that much that really separates the parties. When it comes to foreign policy and economic policy, both parties are pretty much on the same page. There might be some differences over social policies to some extent, but not so much that it really rocks the boat. I don't know if that makes them "liberal" or "conservative," as those terms can be defined any which way.

joether -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 7:09:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers I mean if such lies are impeachable, how did W survive his 1st term ? What lies are you talking about? Lets discussion who should have gotten impeached: Candidate A: Lies to Congress and the nation about having sexual relationships with an intern (i.e. an affair) that doesnt effect their job duties as 'President of the United States'. Candidate B: Lies to Congress and the nation about another nation having, and I quote, "Massive Stockpiles" of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction". That the nation's military is used to invade and control that country. By the time the lie is discovered, 3,500+ are dead US Soldiers, 32,500+ are long term injured US Soldiers, and 100,000-600,000 civilians are dead (depending on which report is believed). Not to mention spending $4 trillion of borrowed money to finance the whole thing. And that both Candidates had Republican controlled Congresses at the time. So please tell us DS,....WHICH...of those two candidates should have been impeached for LYING? How about those 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' the Bush White House stated were 'perfectly lawful'? Ever heard of the 8th amendment? Do you know what it is? An then there are those brown outages that kept hitting the nation mysteriously. That the Bush Administration brought in all the heads of the various electricity companies to the white house one day, behind closed doors and off the record to discuss 'how to fix the problem'. Soon after that, those problems....magically...disappeared. And that those companies got mysterious tax breaks soon afterward. Must be a coincidence.....right? Because the Bush Administration as.....FULLY....honest with everything, right? Who was Candidate A? You seriously have no clue?

joether -> RE: "If Obama Were a White Republican, He'd Be a Conservative Hero" (1/2/2015 7:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u New Year,same old sanity.... cue the cries of personal attack..... And these aren't? "If you can find one conservative (on this forum or in the nation) that can admit reality that their party is full of racists (and are happy to support racism); I'll show a liberal whom doesn't like the ACA. That being racist is a virtue to conservatives. Just as being stupid, ignorant, irresponsible, unaccountable, without compassion, hateful, mean, and like to play petty games with metaphorical WMDs, is a virtue.;Ironically they have all the so called 'Christians' whom hate that people aren't forced to obey their religious lunacy too (and hate the President because he is more Christian then they are combined)! Yes, Mr. Obama was judged much more unfairly for problems and never given any 'at-a-boys' when he did well by conservatives on this forum and in the nation. That they cant admit his accomplishments (which are many more than Mr. Reagan now). Nor acknowledge that the guy really does give a shit about the nation and the people it makes up. All due to his skin color. How many conservatives on this forum have their J.D.'s? And are a constitutional scholar? NONE! But that doesnt stop them from coming up with completely FUBAR positions to oppose the President.(can't wait to see how you twist this argument for not speaking out against politicians next time you do and someone throws this same argument back in your face) That they feel that if someone is any color but white, they cant be accomplished, skilled, and/or educated. The President could school any of those Republican Representatives and Senators, not to mention the justices any day of the week. (your proof of this? Some story where it describes him doing so?) Of course, its not just because he's black, but he's also a Democrat. Since conservatives hold Democrats and the President to an extremely high (if not impossible) standard. All the while giving the people they vote into office (and wield power poorly and foolishly) not an ounce of accountability or responsibility with power. An how many conservatives on here have challenged me on it? NOT A SINGLE ONE.(actually, they have. Numerous times. But because it doesn't fit your mantra that they have no challenge, you ignore them when they do). Because if they held their people they support and vote to the same level of accountability and responsibility with pclaim to the rest, which is generalizedower as the President and Democrats, this nation would have better government....virtually....overnight! In case you aren't aware, the bolded sections are mine. I wouldn't' want to lay claim to the test of the parroted talking points which do not reflect all of those on the left...just the nut fringe. Actually, the BOLD and un-bolded parts of everything you stated (minus that which is quoted slvenmike4u).....IS MINE. You Plagiarizing FUCKWIT! Your first mistake is in breaking the law. Second is not giving me proper credit (kinda of goes with the first point). Third, if you going to quote someone, try LEARNING how to do that. Fourth, when using a question or comment that you are inserting into an existing compilation of text, its with the brackets, not parentheses. Fifth, you smell like pig shit.... quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant (can't wait to see how you twist this argument for not speaking out against politicians next time you do and someone throws this same argument back in your face) So not only are you breaking laws, plagiarizing other's works, unable to understand complex and complicated ideas, and smelling bad, but your also PETTY. Which is kinda of the nature of this whole thread if you haven't figured it out by now.

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