RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!!

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RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/13/2015 11:04:35 PM

vincentML

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Michael, the great myth which Israel uses to keep its 'democracy' on a war footing is the myth of arab unity. Never was such a thing.

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RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/14/2015 7:48:19 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Michael, the great myth which Israel uses to keep its 'democracy' on a war footing is the myth of arab unity. Never was such a thing.

Vincent, this is NOT to be smart ass, but they can't have it both ways. Palestine is either a nation which was dis-placed by Zionists and has repeatedly expressed a mission to "drive Israelis into the sea" or they are not a nation and therefore, should live wherever they find a decent life and quit bitching about how "oppressive" Israel is.

I hear there's vacancies in Iran.

Michael (Okay. That last sentence WAS to be a smart ass)

Red font denotes my edit.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/14/2015 7:56:18 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/15/2015 5:46:42 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Why should Israel enjoy special protection for its colonization and stealing Arab land? The process continues today under US approval. Additionally, I wonder, how have the American people been duped into accepting the false righteousness of the Israeli position?

I think the American people were duped on a lot of things. It was probably easier during the Cold War when Israel's enemies were perceived as pro-Soviet (although that perception may have been part of the overall "dupe"). I've also heard from those who take a great interest in Bible prophecy that it's "God's will" that America support Israel at all costs. It is the "Holy Land" after all. Then there's the argument that "Israel is a democracy" which falls in line with the stated foreign policy objective of "making the world safe for democracy."

On a practical level, we may be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I actually agree with DS that we'd be better off if we pulled out of the Middle East entirely. But now that we've been there for so long, the fat's in the fire and it's all the more difficult to pull out. 20/20 hindsight, but we never should have gotten involved in that region in the first place. But now that we have, we've painted ourselves into a corner. We'd rather go to war than admit to a mistake.

Zonie, the first rule for getting out of a hole is to stop digging.

The second rule is to stop taking Israeli propaganda as solemn gospel.

You're preaching to the choir, Vincent, but we've been digging this hole since WW2. I thought we would finally stop digging once the Cold War was over, but we kept on with it.

It's our own propaganda we need to worry about, not Israeli propaganda.

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RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/15/2015 6:18:00 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually its a horrible example since the color code shows all borders are part of PROPOSED mandates, not actual borders at the time, this one on the other hand is about borders...

There's nothing proposed about this map. These were territories formerly under control of the Ottoman Empire which were ceded to Britain and France as spoils to the victors. These were actual physical territories under the control and jurisdiction of the colonial powers duly noted on the map. These territories were eventually granted independence under the terms and partitions decided by their colonial masters. If your argument is that it's not a real country because it was once under control of a colonial power, then you'd have to say that most of the countries of Africa and Asia today are "not real countries." (And some might even make that argument considering the incoherent and willy-nilly manner in which former colonial boundaries were determined.)

quote:

notice inside the area outlined there is no country named Palestine?

But it's right there on the map. It says "PALESTINE." Can't you see it? Notice that there's no country named "Israel."

quote:

and if you like I can easily find 30 or 40 more just like it, in multiple languages...

you feel free to sow me the ONE you know of that shows Palestine as a country, as opposed to a PROPOSAL

I don't see how the word "proposal" is even relevant here. It's a territorial designation, and the territory in question just happened to be called "Palestine." If you're saying that it's a "proposal" because it wasn't independent and under colonial rule by foreign powers, that doesn't negate whatever identity the territory or its indigenous inhabitants took for themselves. A lot of country names might be somewhat contrived, such as "America," but that doesn't mean that they don't exist or that the people living there are imaginary.

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Post #: 44

RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/16/2015 2:53:37 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Michael, the great myth which Israel uses to keep its 'democracy' on a war footing is the myth of arab unity. Never was such a thing.

Vincent, this is NOT to be smart ass, but they can't have it both ways. Palestine is either a nation which was dis-placed by Zionists and has repeatedly expressed a mission to "drive Israelis into the sea" or they are not a nation and therefore, should live wherever they find a decent life and quit bitching about how "oppressive" Israel is.

I hear there's vacancies in Iran.

Michael (Okay. That last sentence WAS to be a smart ass)

Red font denotes my edit.

Michael, you cannot re-write the history of 1947-1948 so flippantly. Nor can you re-write the history of the Oslo negotiations or of the Camp David negotiations, or of the numerous United States vetoes in the Security Council which protected Israel's Occupation of the West Bank and permits the maintenance of the Gaza Concentration Camp. The US and Israel have successfully blocked both the recovery of land once 90% owned by Palestinians and the many attempts at the fruition of Palestinian nationhood.

The bulldozing of Palestinian villages continues even today around East Jerusalem, in the North Negev, in Gaza, and in the West Bank. Even the homes of Arab Israel citizens are demolished on the flimsiest legal pretexts to make way for settlements of Russian Jews who are repopulating Israel and converting Israel into a fascist state.

Plant a tree in Israel and help hide the remains of a Palestinian village destroyed by the Irgun or the Stern Gang.

References:

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe

The General's Son by Miko Peled

Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel by Max Blumenthal

Beyond Chutzpah by Lieberman

When you are cognizant of facts, narratives, and opinions beyond the Zionist propaganda fed into our major news sources, come back and we can have a more reasonable discussion.

Okay to be a smart ass if you know what you are talking about

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Post #: 45

RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/17/2015 4:01:24 AM

vincentML

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~FR

The demolition of Arab tents continues . . . FFS!!! where is the OUTRAGE?!!!

http://www.btselem.org/facing_expulsion_blog

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Post #: 46

RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/17/2015 4:19:44 AM

vincentML

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~FR

Brave Israeli Soldier Speaks Out On BBC Against the Crimes of His Government...

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RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/17/2015 7:21:24 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Michael, the great myth which Israel uses to keep its 'democracy' on a war footing is the myth of arab unity. Never was such a thing.

Vincent, this is NOT to be smart ass, but they can't have it both ways. Palestine is either a nation which was dis-placed by Zionists and has repeatedly expressed a mission to "drive Israelis into the sea" or they are not a nation and therefore, should live wherever they find a decent life and quit bitching about how "oppressive" Israel is.

I hear there's vacancies in Iran.

Michael (Okay. That last sentence WAS to be a smart ass)

Red font denotes my edit.

Michael, you cannot re-write the history of 1947-1948 so flippantly. Nor can you re-write the history of the Oslo negotiations or of the Camp David negotiations, or of the numerous United States vetoes in the Security Council which protected Israel's Occupation of the West Bank and permits the maintenance of the Gaza Concentration Camp. The US and Israel have successfully blocked both the recovery of land once 90% owned by Palestinians and the many attempts at the fruition of Palestinian nationhood.

I wasn't ignoring history. I was answering your statement about Arab unity being a "great myth".

All of my life, the history that I was taught was that Palestinians are pissed off at Israel because Israel "took their country/land". Well, that sounds like some kind of unity to me.

If you want insist that there is no "Arab unity" then, the Palestinians are fighting, based upon the bullshit of Israel, stealing their land.

I see old maps with "Palestine" clearly marked. If it was a country, doesn't that suggest unity (after a fashion, anyway. Certainly, I wouldn't call the United States unified, right now).

My only point was one cannot claim there's no such thing as "Arab unity" while some of those "Arabs" are currently involved in a Jihad because they lost their country.

It's arguing out of both sides of the mouth.

Michael

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Post #: 48

RE: Kim Jung Un let us down!!! - 1/18/2015 6:17:00 AM

vincentML

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quote:

All of my life, the history that I was taught was that Palestinians are pissed off at Israel because Israel "took their country/land". Well, that sounds like some kind of unity to me.

Michael, it is illogical to equate Palestinian unity with Arab unity. There is no compelling equivalency. Would be similarly erroneous to equate American unity over say the outrage of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty to English speaking unity or white race unity.

For example, I doubt Saudi Arabia gives a rat's ass about the Palestinians as long as it has a comfy military and petrodollar relationship with America/UK and a hostile Persia next door.

quote:

My only point was one cannot claim there's no such thing as "Arab unity" while some of those "Arabs" are currently involved in a Jihad because they lost their country.

One can do precisely that if one is willing to see the difference between the particular 'some of those Arabs' and the universal 'Arab unity' in your statement. It is an agony of logic to translate 'some' into 'all' and it plays into the repeated Zionist propaganda that Israel is a small nation surrounded by enemies - the everyone is against us nonsense. Israel continues to waive the red card of Holocaust to justify maintaining the outdoor concentration Camp Gaza. And so Israel is the 'victim persecutor' but the world seems to be tiring of that old rhetoric.

And btw that Jihad against lost land and nationhood can be seen simply as a justified uprising of oppressed peoples. As if Nat Turner's actions were uppity.