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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 10:13:44 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes, hundreds of villages are destroyed by bulldozers, hundreds of thousands are imprisoned, often without charges, people are left to live in tents next to their bombed homes and then in winter their tents are bulldozed, and Kirata thinks there is only pleasure in pointing the finger of blame. Never mind the need for justice and humane treatment of innocent people. Insensitivity hardly describes your politics.

If they were rocketing and suicide-bombing my country, the "refugees" would be the lucky ones.

(Figure it out.)

K.



History does not begin where you think it does (the rocketing) Try to catch up to speed on the issue before you make more silly remarks.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 10:21:08 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

History does not begin where you think it does


Evidently not with you either.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 11:25:39 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

History does not begin where you think it does (the rocketing) Try to catch up to speed on the issue before you make more silly remarks.

Lose the turban. I didn't say that the history began there. I probably know it better than you. It begins during World War I, and it's been repellant from the start. But there is no future in trying to beat the shit out of someone's fist with your face. Sooner or later you're going to annoy them.

K.


(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 2:09:05 PM   
luckyd0g


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/11/2015
Status: offline 		Plus hams could decide to build houses instead of attack tunnels. But the creation of a state that has never existed is far more important than the lives of the people living there.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 3:55:39 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Good to see no one on the right wants to acknowledge the illegal settlements.

Same shit new socks dawg ?

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 11:01:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Plus hams could decide to build houses instead of attack tunnels. But the creation of a state that has never existed is far more important than the lives of the people living there.

Given that:
(a) c27,000 Palestinian homes in the West Bank* have been demolished by the IDF for allegedly "lacking planning permission" since the Occupation began; and
(b) Official permission for Palestinians to build homes is rarely if ever given, with a rejection rate of c99%; and
(c) The whole point of Israel's policy of ethnicly cleansing the West Bank is to rid the area of its indigenous Palestinian population;
How do you propose that Palestinians legally build houses?

While it has been busy demolishing Palestinian homes Israel has found itself able to build, with official permission homes for the c650,000 Israeli colonists now residing in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in flagrant breaches of international law. So it would appear that the most important element in obtaining planning permission is that one is of the correct race, something that no Palestinian can ever achieve even if they were so inclined. How do you propose that Palestinians overcome this official apartheid?

Finally, your claim that " the creation of a state that has never existed is far more important than the lives of the people living there" is an almost perfect description of the background to Israel's policies of ethnic cleansing and apartheid in the West Bank. As you rightly condemn these policies in principle, can I look forward to seeing you condemn Israel's implementation of these policies in the West Bank, hopefully because it's the principled thing to do but at the very least to avoid the obvious charge of hypocrisy should you fail to do so?

* This figure does not include the many tens of thousands of Palestinian homes destroyed (often with their residents inside them) by Israel in Gaza during the regular Israeli invasions of Gaza.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/20/2015 11:12:25 PM >

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 6:27:16 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

History does not begin where you think it does (the rocketing) Try to catch up to speed on the issue before you make more silly remarks.

Lose the turban. I didn't say that the history began there. I probably know it better than you. It begins during World War I, and it's been repellant from the start. But there is no future in trying to beat the shit out of someone's fist with your face. Sooner or later you're going to annoy them.

K.



Having no problem selecting an historical beginning that suits you simply reveals your bias in this issue. It also clouds the realities of the present occupation and oppression of the Palestinians in the West Bank whilst maintaining an open air concentration camp Gaza. Imagine! The Gaza Ghetto enforced by the spiritual descendants of the Warsaw Ghetto! An ironic and tragic twist in events.

In Hebron there is an area called H2 that has been "sterilized". STERILIZED! Worth repeating for horrific emphasis. Palestinians are not allowed to walk the streets or open shops. They are prohibited by force of the IDF and armed Settlers. Pretty damned shameful.

You use selective history as an excuse to hide or trivialize the tragedy of the present time. As long as Israel chooses to expand its occupation of foreign land and apartheid expropriation of Palestinian homes within its boundaries it should not be surprised that rockets fall upon it and its people are attacked by knife wielders on public buses.

As for the self-congratulatory chest thumping of your alleged knowledge . . . pretty boring.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/21/2015 6:39:54 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 6:34:11 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

History does not begin where you think it does


Evidently not with you either.

Butch

I have tried to focus this discussion on the current plight of the Palestinians so do please point out where I selected an historical point as significant reference, Butch.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 6:36:19 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Plus hams could decide to build houses instead of attack tunnels. But the creation of a state that has never existed is far more important than the lives of the people living there.

They can't build homes if the importation of concrete is forbidden by the blockade. But, you knew that. Right?

(in reply to luckyd0g)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:28:02 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Because Vincent history has no relevance when it comes to claims of ownership in this conflict. Over the history of this part of the world all political entities have legitimate claims to the land. And I say political entities because outside of politics they are mostly the same people. They need to leave history out of claims of ownership and deal with reality of today.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:29:36 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		FR

Brief video. Witness the plight of the Palestinians and the shame of the Israelis.

Fearless IDF troops arrest 10 year old Palestinians for throwing stones

Israel's militarism tarnishes the morality of Judaism just like the torture of suspected terrorists destroyed America's claim to righteousness.




(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:29:58 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

In Hebron there is an area called H2 that has been "sterilized". STERILIZED!

High temperature, or disinfectant?

K.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:31:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Plus hams could decide to build houses instead of attack tunnels. But the creation of a state that has never existed is far more important than the lives of the people living there.

They can't build homes if the importation of concrete is forbidden by the blockade. But, you knew that. Right?


Ah yes the good old catch 22

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:31:50 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Because Vincent history has no relevance when it comes to claims of ownership in this conflict. Over the history of this part of the world all political entities have legitimate claims to the land. And I say political entities because outside of politics they are mostly the same people. They need to leave history out of claims of ownership and deal with reality of today.

Butch

My sentiments exactly, Butch.

And when you deal with the reality of today your are confronted face on with the immorality of Israel's behavior.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:36:06 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes but do you deny the immoral behavior of some Palestinians?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 7:42:49 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

As long as Israel chooses to expand its occupation of foreign land and apartheid expropriation of Palestinian homes within its boundaries it should not be surprised that rockets fall upon it and its people are attacked by knife wielders on public buses.

I apologize for my silly remarks. It was insensitive of me to object to the murder of innocent civilians. I should have realized that if Israel does it, it must be okay. Please forgive me for doubting the moral superiority of your views.

K.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 11:51:53 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes but do you deny the immoral behavior of some Palestinians?

Butch

Would you call the rebellion of the Warsaw Ghetto an immoral act?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 11:59:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I would say the Jews of Warsaw had nor been firing rockets at the German's homeland indiscriminately... how about you?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 12:02:38 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

As long as Israel chooses to expand its occupation of foreign land and apartheid expropriation of Palestinian homes within its boundaries it should not be surprised that rockets fall upon it and its people are attacked by knife wielders on public buses.

I apologize for my silly remarks. It was insensitive of me to object to the murder of innocent civilians. I should have realized that if Israel does it, it must be okay. Please forgive me for doubting the moral superiority of your views.

K.



Of course, you are forgiven, my son

You do raise an interesting concept when you refer to 'innocent civilians.' Wasn't it bin Laden who raised the issue of guilt of all citizens of a nation at war to justify crashing planes into the Twin Towers? Were we not all guilty of torture in Guantanamo and Abu Gharib? Did the Germans not all share a national guilt for Auschwitz and Treblinka? The Americans for Hiroshima? And now the Israelis for the Gaza Ghetto and apartheid in the occupied lands? Who is innocent if evil is committed in their names?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/21/2015 12:07:56 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would say the Jews of Warsaw had nor been firing rockets at the German's homeland indiscriminately... how about you?

Butch

They did smuggle armaments into the Ghetto and attack their overseers, just as does Hamas. Whether their aim is accurate or indiscriminant is a secondary issue. The point is you should not expect anything less than that the oppressed will fight.

Do you perceive a moral superiority in the rebellion from one hellhole or the other? I don't.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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