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Zonie63 -> RE: 1% own half the world's wealth (2/8/2015 10:43:16 AM)
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
When the meaning or accepted usage of a word changes over the years, that does not constitute a valid changing of the Constitution. Take, for instance, the discussion we've had about the "Interstate" Commerce Clause.
Well, then, I suppose the more honorable approach would be for governments to say what they mean and to mean what they say. Language should not be used to deceive or obfuscate its true meaning. Maybe instead of lawyers on the Supreme Court, we should have linguists instead.
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I disagree with your analysis of how conservatives think.
Some of it comes from my own personal experience and observation. Don't forget that I'm from Arizona, the state of Barry Goldwater, the grandfather of conservatism. You think that I don't know conservatives? I've known them, worked with them, lived among them for decades, and many within my own family. I know what it's like to live under a mainly conservative state government, the kinds of things they value, the legislation they've passed, the mismanagement, the corruption, the abuses of power they've turned the blind eye to. That's not to say that many of them aren't nice people. I think many of them sincerely mean well, even if they may be misguided and stubbornly refuse to listen to reason. I can still sense that there's some good in them, deep down. [;)]
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Where is the "constant application of force, threat of force, coercion, corruption/usurpation of foreign governments?"
You haven't noticed the deployment and placement of US military bases, equipment, and personnel around the world these past 100+ years? You haven't heard about United Fruit, or any of our government's covert operations around the world, or any of the atrocities committed by regimes which we supported?
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It's too bad economicsts can't point to successes of countries (China) that have experienced an economic explosion after moving more towards a capitalistic system (China). [8|]
And China is also a mixed economic system, with elements of both socialism and capitalism. Of course, China isn't really that much to crow about, though. Their wealth hasn't exactly trickled down to the lower levels, and their GDP per capita is 82nd in the world, hardly a stellar achievement. But they're still working on it, and they do have some shared collective goals of being a fully-developed, materially well-off society - yet still centrally managed and anti-democratic. So, yes, you can sing China's praises if you wish, but not without a lot of footnotes, explanations, and apologia.
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Capitalism has existed. Capitalism isn't a market free of any government intervention. That's just a way those who oppose it demonstrate their lack of understanding and/or their distaste for Capitalism.
I think those who oppose it understand it well enough. Anyone who was born and raised in this country would be reasonably well-versed in the basic principles and tenets of capitalism. How could they not be? It's just that some people scratch the surface and look beyond the pseudo-patriotic propaganda of capitalists and try to give a more forensic analysis, looking under the hood and seeing what goes on in the back room. Some of it is indeed quite distasteful, yet whenever someone points out some of the more inconvenient truths about capitalism, many conservatives get quite upset about it, as if their religious beliefs have been insulted.
But I guess they're not as bad as some of the Muslim extremists out there. I mean, capitalists would never kill or make war in order to advance their capitalist beliefs...erm...oh wait, let's look at that again. [:'(]
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It was a while ago, so I don't recall the particulars. There may not be exact left/right differences, but there was a very strong correlation among those that lean left and supporting the government being able to dictate what those on the right supported as family decisions.
Again, I think it depends on the issue. In cases where gay or lesbian couples want to raise a child (or even get married), there are those on the right who reverse themselves and suddenly start clamoring for government interference in family decisions. Similarly, they demand government interference in personal decisions like abortion. The right hasn't been all that consistent in their support of the principle of "non-interference by government." This would indicate that they must operate according to a different set of principles, other than the ones they claim to support.
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I do know about that.
Well, I guess that settles it then, doesn't it? [8|]
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I don't know. It very well might be hard to sell some of that swamp land.
Well, as P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." What a noble and industrious venture to embark on a career of conning and manipulating "suckers" out of their money.
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The idea that situations and circumstances are to blame for the bad decision is the same as saying the person isn't to blame for the decision.
No, I'm saying that "blame" is irrelevant when it comes to the overall needs and challenges of society. If you want to blame someone, then okay - blame the individual person who made the bad decision. But then what?
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Hurricanes, though, aren't sentient and don't make choices. There's a big difference.
True, humans are sentient creatures, although generally, just like any other animal, they can usually be expected to make choices that they believe will increase their own survival and/or the survival of their progeny. Of course, the laws of human survival don't necessarily correspond with anything you might read in the Constitution or the Bible - or anything else for that matter.
If there's a food riot or something similar, then it won't really do a bit of good to go in there and tell the rioters that they're making bad choices. If you want to do that and tell a bunch of angry, desperate people that they're making bad choices and blame them for those choices, you're free to do so. As for me, I look at it as a "situation society will have to deal with," which means using whatever resources and apparatus we have at our disposal to restore order and repair the damage.
And you're right. This would be a situation different from a hurricane in that we should be better able to predict such things and take proactive measures to reduce the possibility of them ever happening. That is, if society and government ever take seriously these situations that we will have to deal with.
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According to some people (no idea if they are right or wrong), the left-leaning types co-opted the word "liberal." In much of the rest of the world, the political connotation of "liberal" doesn't match our connotation. I doubt NorthernGent would be considered a "liberal" in the US.
It might have different connotations in different countries, true. You don't really hear the term "progressive" much anymore, as they're often associated with liberals, but not entirely the same.
One has to keep in mind that there are still sections of this country that never fully recovered from the various "Red Scares" we've had, highlighted by the infamous McCarthy era. "Liberal" was about as "far left" as anyone could get in this country without being associated with the "Red Menace" and an enemy of "God, Freedom, and United States of America" (but not necessarily in that order). But even then, liberals were often called "pinkos" and associated with communists just the same. I think the same "McCarthy Lite" mentality arises every time the word "socialism" is mentioned in American political parlance.
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And, we have (and should have) laws that support consumer rights to fight against businesses who don't act ethically.
Do those laws have enough teeth in them to adequately protect consumer rights? And it's not just consumers that might need protection. If a company dumps hazardous chemicals upriver and people start getting sick, then the general public needs protection too. But then the EPA is another example of "government interference" which the business community always balks against.
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Yup, but we can work to education and enlighten so the future decisions are better.
There are certainly ways of improving the education system, but part of that also might mean that some of America's more "provincial" attitudes towards the education process might need to be updated a bit.
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Protection of the 10 Amendment.
And...?
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You think "the rich" are creating policies to maintain the existence of "the poor?" Please cite that.
I think the results of the situation outlined in the OP speak for themselves.
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Equal results aren't (and shouldn't be) guaranteed. Government should support equal opportunities, though.
And, in the spirit of supporting, upholding, and maintaining equal opportunities, there have been times where government has had to interfere. Certainly, equal results aren't guaranteed, but that also doesn't mean that things "should be" so incredibly lopsided as it currently is. We all know that "life isn't fair," but when people try to actively push that notion to absurd proportions, then sooner or later, the other shoe is going to drop.
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We're not really talking about immoral products, are we?
It depends on the product and the conditions faced by those who work to produce it.
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Your view of Capitalism and Capitalists is so low. We don't agree on it at all.
It could be that my view of capitalism is low. Or it could be a matter of perspective; that is, your view of capitalism could be so high that any valid criticism might be considered a "low" view of capitalism in your eyes.
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No, they don't act like the built it all from scratch. They helped pay for that modern, technologically-advanced society, too. They helped build that modern, technologically-advanced society, too.
Well, we all helped pay for it and helped build it, and that's why many people believe that we all should benefit from it.
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Entrepreneurs use that modern society as a springboard for more, but there's nothing preventing anyone from doing the same. Therein lies the difference.
Except for the fact that society still needs large numbers of people to do actual real work.
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No, it isn't.
Yes, it is.
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Maybe the US should tax any company anywhere, then.
No, I didn't say that. Not that we haven't been above that sort of thing back in our earlier swashbuckler days, but that was in the past. We wouldn't dream of doing anything like that nowadays.
Still, US citizens being taxed on their earnings seems pretty normal, don't you think? We all have to pay taxes, even if we don't like them. Sure, some people try to hide their earnings and squirrel their money away to avoid having to pay Uncle Sam. Or it could be cases of illicitly-acquired income, such as in the numerous cases of "mysteriously missing money" which seem to crop up all too frequently in many city and state governments, in addition to federal agencies. Then there are things like the S&L fiasco... I think we should investigate these offshore accounts and holdings, and if any of that money rightfully belongs to the US taxpayers, we should be able to get it back, with interest.
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