Zonie63
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Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Yes, we do disagree on that. Where we actually disagree is on the idea that capitalists are really that much different than politicians, at least on a global scale.
In the U.S. experience, capitalists have probably been worse than politicians, at least in the sense of understanding right and wrong. No capitalist ever said that slavery was wrong; it took a movement led by citizen politicians (the kind who weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths) to do that. No capitalist ever said that child labor was wrong; it took political actions to end that. It's pretty much the same story for monopolies, anti-trust, environmental regulations, workplace safety, labor rights, minimum wage, etc. - all of that had to be forced by the politicians (who had more big picture concerns to worry about), while the capitalists were kicking and screaming every step of the way.
(In the case of slavery, they fought the most devastating war in U.S. history just to prove a point about how far they're willing to go for money. That is the true face of capitalism.)
Were there no Capitalists, then, in the North?
You are painting all Capitalists with a massive brush.
Just as you have painted "Big Gov" with a massive brush. Just as socialists and liberals have been painted with a massive brush by their political opposites.
But to answer your question, yes, there were capitalists in the North. But it was the Abolitionists who pressed the issue more than the capitalists. Northern capitalists were hardly anyone's idea of "heroes" or "humanitarians." That much is certain. This was especially true during the Postbellum period when the issues of child labor and general working conditions in Northern factories, mines, and railroads gained more attention. It was yet another example of capitalists fighting tooth and nail against any kind of reforms.
It was an especially violent period in our history, with unrest and strike violence in the East, vicious genocide and range wars in the West, and despicable Klan violence in the South - most of it driven by the capitalistic "entrepreneurial spirit" that they keep talking about. It's a period we've since had to try to live down and dissociate ourselves from.
I'm not saying that anyone living today needs to feel any guilt or remorse for the actions of our forebears, but at least we should recognize the difference between right and wrong and give an honest appraisal of the ideals which led to many of the wrongs of our history. Unfortunately, I don't think capitalists nor conservatives have any intention of giving any kind of honest appraisal. Listening to conservative tell it, everything great about America is/was due to capitalism, while everything bad about America is/was due to liberalism, socialism, and/or poor people.
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Even to this very day, capitalists are still grumbling about these things imposed upon them by "Big Gov," and their actions (such as outsourcing, offshore accounts, etc.) would imply a somewhat spiteful and retaliatory attitude towards America and its people.
There are some things that have been imposed that should not have been (ie. the minimum wage).
As history has shown, some things were necessary because there was no other way to do it. One might well ask why capitalists would stubbornly wait until these things were imposed upon them, rather than taking the initiative on their own. Why do they wait until the peasants are on the verge of storming the Winter Palace before they finally realize that they need to make changes?
The ridiculous irony of it all is that, at least here in America, capitalists have still done quite well for themselves, even with "Big Gov" imposing all these "socialist" ideals upon them. This is why it's hard to take certain conservative notions that capitalists are somehow being "oppressed" in America (or even in Europe for that matter).
I think it's funny that some in this thread are playing the "America-Love-It-Or-Leave-It" card when it's the capitalists who are making the loudest noise in their opposition to America - and proving it by sending their money overseas and using outsourced labor. If America is not good enough for them to invest their money, then maybe they're the ones who should be leaving.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, Capitalists tend to have to "answer to the people" (consumers) every day.
Yet they have call centers in India to do the actual answering.
And, do consumers have any recourse because a business has a call center in India?
Yes, consumers have recourse in some instances, depending on the product, service, or industry they're dealing with. But more often than not, it's usually after the damage is done, after the consumer has already wasted his/her money and the capitalist has no intention of giving it back. That is, unless it comes to fighting it out in court, which is why capitalists invest a good portion of their profits in high-priced legal teams who have a distinct advantage in that arena. That's one area where they really, really LOVE "Big Gov," which is yet another irony about capitalism.
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RE: 1% own half the world's wealth - 
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