Female Soldier Dilemma

Female Soldier Dilemma (Full Version)

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Lashra -> Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 9:16:08 AM)
If anyone is interested in reading this article I found it pretty interesting and stomach churning all at the same time. It's regarding a female soldier in Iraq and her sexual harrassment by her peers/higher ups and the administrations lack of caring. Im not trying to start a flame or a debate, just sharing information that some may want to be aware of. http://www.alternet.org/story/38942/ Here is the site for her petition if you would care to sign it: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/441448013?ltl=1152893636 ~Lashra

fullofgrace -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 10:12:04 AM)
this has been an ongoing discussion on another site i belong to...i'm kind of a fence-sitter, because i hate to believe that ANYONE would be lying or trumping things up when it comes to something like this, and i know what it feels like to be accused of lying, but members of the military on that site (and civilians as well) have posted many well-supported arguments about the holes in the case (specifically swift's case, not any other). at any rate, it's a really pertinent current issue :) thanks for posting it! and the petition as well - i didn't realize that was there. :) i am glad to see that other cases are coming to light...maybe that will shed some light on swift's situation and hopefully on this issue in general. when people see that it's too big to just sweep under the rug, it is going to have to be dealt with, and that really needs to happen. ANY kind of sexual harrassment is despicable.

meatcleaver -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 10:15:24 AM)
Female frontline soldiers was always a bad idea. The idea of putting women amongst a gang of men hyped up on fear and adrenalin of being in a warzone, just smacks of naivety to me. Such ideas should never have got past feminist ideology. You go to war to kill, not to be a social worker. How many people have died in Iraq today?

SirKenin -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 10:21:12 AM)
If she had stayed in the kitchen this would never have been a problem. /me runs REALLY fast. haha [:D]

janiceleeinsc -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 10:32:27 AM)
I was in the military in the late 80's. This type of behavior has been going on. I received a letter from the US Dept of Defense apologizing for the way women were being treated back then. I was fortunate. I had a wonderful Military Experience. I worked for some fine people. We know these types of things go on in war time. Just look at the crimes against Iraq families. The point I am making is that she cannot justify going AWOL because she does not want to go back to duty. This is War Time, and things are quite different. I am afraid, she will wind up in serious trouble for desertion in time of war over this. Respectfully, Mistress_Jan

juliaoceania -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 12:06:35 PM)
When I was 21 I signed up to join the Air Force, I even took the oath and signed the papers. I was married also. I remember right after I had taken my oath my recruiter had told me, "A gal like you is going to have all kinds of fun when you get your first leave weekend". I asked him what he meant and he specifically said that people get together to "fuck" as soon as possible. I told him I was a married woman, and he told me it didn't matter, I would learn the way it goes... I was VERY offended by this whole line of conversation as a newly wed. I ended up pregnant the same month I signed up, so I ended up not going in anyways and if I had a daughter I would highly discourage her from joining the military, but then again I have discouraged my son too..

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 1:01:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Female frontline soldiers was always a bad idea. The idea of putting women amongst a gang of men hyped up on fear and adrenalin of being in a warzone, just smacks of naivety to me. Such ideas should never have got past feminist ideology. You go to war to kill, not to be a social worker. How many people have died in Iraq today? That is bullshit and you know it. So they are hyped up on fear and adrenaline. What difference does that make? They are still responsible for their own behavior. It does not make it OK to rape someone. What would you say if they shot someone instead? Oh, it will be OK. You were having an adrenaline rush. Basically, you can blame the victim all you want, but she is not the one who raped someone. They were. Women have just as much right to be on the frontline, if they prove themselves worthy to be there, as men have. There is no good reason that we should not be able to do it we are qualified. And, no, just because we provide some kind of temptation is not a good reason. The man who will rape or sexually harrass has a choice. The victim does not. I would say that is pretty cut and dry, and should not have a damn thing to do with whether women are allowed on the frontlines. The people who cannot control themselves are the ones who do not belong there.

JohnWarren -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 1:17:57 PM)
Bill Maldin had a a term "garritrooper." Too far forward to wear a tie and to far back to get shot at. In my experience, these people are responsible for 90 percent of the discipline problems. It's not the "hepped up" guys who rape and steal, it's the bored ones.

meatcleaver -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 2:09:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain That is bullshit and you know it. So they are hyped up on fear and adrenaline. What difference does that make? They are still responsible for their own behavior. It does not make it OK to rape someone. What would you say if they shot someone instead? Oh, it will be OK. You were having an adrenaline rush. If you read what I said I didn't say it was OK to rape someone. Thankyou for putting words in my mouth. I said frontline female soldiers are a bad idea. While many a politician have gone along the politically correct line, many noises have come out of the military that have questioned the idea.

Lashra -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 2:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Female frontline soldiers was always a bad idea. The idea of putting women amongst a gang of men hyped up on fear and adrenalin of being in a warzone, just smacks of naivety to me. Such ideas should never have got past feminist ideology. You go to war to kill, not to be a social worker. How many people have died in Iraq today? No but we feminist do expect men to act like men, not savages who cannot control their hormones and believe that it is alright to rape a woman merely because they can. Many of these guys know how the system works and take full advantage of it. As I've said if more women would start carrying guns and killing their attackers you'd probably see a decline in rapes, or more then likely, more women going to prison for killing their attackers. These women are risking their lives for our country they expect to have violent confrontations with the enemy, not from their fellow soldiers. Military units are supposed to stick together and fight as a team, not turn on each other like warring rats. Are humans really so advanced? I think not. Just MO ~Lashra

meatcleaver -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 2:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra Are humans really so advanced? I think not. Just MO ~Lashra If humans were that advanced there wouldn't be wars, especially needless ones like Iraq.

Arpig -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 5:11:04 PM)
Many nations throughout history have had successful female combat troops, however, the units that were successful were segregated...all female units. The idea of integrating women into a unit of men is a recipe for just this sort of thing. Regardless of the right or wrong of it, a military unit is made up primarily of young men aged 18-22, not the demographic most known for its self-control or its wisdom. Add the fact that they are far away from home in an environment where many of the social constraints of stateside life are lowered or removed altogether, and that they have been indoctrinated with a macho mindset, and most probably a lot of cheap booze, and personally I think it is really encouraging that there aren't a Hell of a lot more rapes, etc. I think it says a lot for the average U.S. grunt.

CrappyDom -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 6:10:15 PM)
This isn't war, this is conquest pure and simple. The really pathetic thing is this should have been easy, could have been easy but these guys are so fucking dumb they would end up getting their dick stuck in a beer can at a gang bang. As for women in the military, the problems with them are symptoms of the shitty leadership we have from the top down. Bush and his idiots are driving the good people out of the military in droves. We have an entire prison run amok and doing publicity stunts for Al Queda and all we can do is throw a couple of privates in jail? The Brits do it the right way. It doesn't matter who you want to fuck, male or female, keep your fucking dick under control.

Lashra -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 6:13:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom This isn't war, this is conquest pure and simple. The really pathetic thing is this should have been easy, could have been easy but these guys are so fucking dumb they would end up getting their dick stuck in a beer can at a gang bang. As for women in the military, the problems with them are symptoms of the shitty leadership we have from the top down. Bush and his idiots are driving the good people out of the military in droves. We have an entire prison run amok and doing publicity stunts for Al Queda and all we can do is throw a couple of privates in jail? The Brits do it the right way. It doesn't matter who you want to fuck, male or female, keep your fucking dick under control. You said it CrappyDom! ~Lashra

Quivver -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/14/2006 8:39:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom The Brits do it the right way. It doesn't matter who you want to fuck, male or female, keep your fucking dick under control. As much as I disagree with most of what Crappy said, I whole heartedly agree with that statement. I've always looked at Military as a place to breed children into adults, the rest need culled from the herd. Q

janiceleeinsc -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/15/2006 8:04:30 AM)
You go Crappy Dom. Thank you for that post. Respectfully, Mistress_Jan

krikket -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/15/2006 8:30:15 AM)
As a former military brat and wife, i saw it happen too many times - a woman being harassed and messed with simply because of her gender. There are a lot of really terrific people in the military, and as usual the few bad apples make it tough for the majority. Given all of the rhetoric we hear so much of, i've never understood why anyone in the military dishes out this type of garbage, much less feels like they have to take it, but i know that's incredibly naive on my part. It would seem to me that any one, male or female, should feel the safest when with their peers, but in many cases it's the exact opposite. It's just doesn't make sense.. jimini quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom This isn't war, this is conquest pure and simple. The really pathetic thing is this should have been easy, could have been easy but these guys are so fucking dumb they would end up getting their dick stuck in a beer can at a gang bang. As for women in the military, the problems with them are symptoms of the shitty leadership we have from the top down. Bush and his idiots are driving the good people out of the military in droves. We have an entire prison run amok and doing publicity stunts for Al Queda and all we can do is throw a couple of privates in jail? The Brits do it the right way. It doesn't matter who you want to fuck, male or female, keep your fucking dick under control.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/15/2006 9:24:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain That is bullshit and you know it. So they are hyped up on fear and adrenaline. What difference does that make? They are still responsible for their own behavior. It does not make it OK to rape someone. What would you say if they shot someone instead? Oh, it will be OK. You were having an adrenaline rush. If you read what I said I didn't say it was OK to rape someone. Thankyou for putting words in my mouth. I said frontline female soldiers are a bad idea. While many a politician have gone along the politically correct line, many noises have come out of the military that have questioned the idea. I didn't need to put words in your mouth. They were heartily implied. No, you didn't say it was OK to rape, and I didn't say you said it. I was making a point. What I was arguing was that the potential for rape is an unacceptable reason to deny women the chance to serve on the frontlines if they are capable.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/15/2006 9:27:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom The Brits do it the right way. It doesn't matter who you want to fuck, male or female, keep your fucking dick under control. Exactly! Thank you for putting it very succinctly when I and others couldn't find the words to do so.

meatcleaver -> RE: Female Soldier Dilemma (7/15/2006 9:44:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain I was making a point. What I was arguing was that the potential for rape is an unacceptable reason to deny women the chance to serve on the frontlines if they are capable. The potential for rape isn't what the descenting voices in the military have complained about in having women on the frontline. It was the general disruption to moral. The affairs, marriage break ups and the pregnancy rates! (and not through rape either)

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