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BamaD -> RE: Good Points on Firearms (2/10/2015 9:10:13 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
quote:
ORIGINAL: BamaD
A person of your great knowledge and wisdom would know that there is far more case history than Heller, and it overwhelmingly supports my viewpoint on the 2nd. Your view requires that you
A Ignore this fact
B Ignore the fact that the people who wrote the 2nd had the same view on it that I do, that is where I got my view
C Heller was not an end around on the 2nd but a conformation of the view anti gun people have been trying to deny for decades.
There is far more case history that Heller vs. DC. Before than, it was recognized that freedom with firearms rested with militias that were well regulated. That individuals could have firearms, but, there were rules that had to be followed.
Ignore facts?
Lets discuss 'ignoring facts'....
At the current rate of violence by firearms, the 2nd gets nullified in 16-22 years. That the young population has more access and know-how with technology to glean historical records on up to the present with relationship to firearms. That they have seen, been part of, or known someone that was involved in localized shootings or 'massive shootings'. They have no fear of firearms, but do not want people that have an axe to grind for no decent reason easy access to firearms. All the really gun controllers have to do is show remarks from republicans, tea partiers, conservatives, and other screwballs whom come dangerously close to 'crossing the line'. That such 'language' and 'words' is used for intimidation purposes....AND NOT....with advocating a political viewpoint under the 1st amendment.
That firearm used to take something from others brings more headlines in sensational media coverage than someone being slapped upside the head for their lunch money. An we can all blame ourselves for allowing that crap to persist for this long! An of individuals whom want to use their firearms to push an ideology of fear, rage, and threat. That its not saying "hey, we are responsible firearm owners, and we would like to have firearms". How it comes across is "You better not take my gun rights away, or I'll kill you dead!" Yeah, that really doesnt win you over much support.
A comedian comes forward from another nation, makes fun of the gun culture. While most laughed, he did make quite a few good points (none of which are being opposed). Stuff like that tends to seep into the minds of the viewers. People whom might have given you a fair chance at things, now say "yeah that does seem pretty crazy; who the heck behaves that way?" Doesnt take them to long to find examples of that 'crazy'.
You have some good points. But the manner in which they are delivered does you incredible injustice. In ways, your doing damage to your own cause; irrelevant of what anyone else is stating. The only people that listen to 'fear talk' are conservatives. FOX 'news' and other conservative media proves that on a daily basis. Check out the Drudge Report. The whole thing is one massive 'fear, Fear....FEAR!'. People have done their homework and know how you behave and react to things. Its called psychology.
You want to have an individual right to a one or more firearms, right? No strings attached. You'll never get that. Not in this day and age, technology as it is. The facts are heavily against that notion. What is worst here? Its a 'sellers' market. And your not the seller, BamaD. The seller can wait you out. Eventually you will buy, and buy on their terms, NOT, yours. An it will....SUCK....big time! So why go down that path? Doesnt do you any good. Because you have not considered any other paths before you. Keep going down that path, the 2nd is nullified by amendment (i.e. 28th or 29th) in 16-22 years.
So.....
Make a deal. What do you have to lose? Your going to lose the 2nd amendment if you do nothing, right? So how about making a deal with the rest of the nation. That involves dealing with what you cant lose and what you can afford to give up to keep what you cant lose. The other side(s) will do the same. They'll give ground according to their perceptions of what your giving up on. So if you decide not to give up anything at all, or very little; they'll do the same and you'll be right back on the same path as you are now. So the trick is to give up just enough, to keep what you want. That is what is called 'haggling'.
Be objective, BamaD; you'll score more points. No one cares about statistics. Both sides use them to justify a point of view the other side doesn't give a shit about. As the comedian points out, its not you personally whom are getting laws put up; its that guy that missed used his firearm. Or that lady that left her purse open for her child to shoot her in the head. Or the imbecile that shot up a car full of teenagers because he couldn't ask in a polite manner "hey guys, is it possible turn down the music?" These are the people, and their actions (or lack of action) that cause your side headaches. It just adds more 'ammo' for the other side to convince those still in the middle, their side has the right viewpoints.
We are going to lose the 2nd anyway so we should just give it up.
No right comes without some limits, yelling fire in a crowded theater for example.
To pretend that this means there is no right to bear arms, a right, not a privilege for militia members.
Can't use stats but you can make claims like kids are dying in droves because you don't need stats to make the claim. This is particularly true since your claim runs contrary to the facts.
It is your positions that undermine your argument. Until you admit that the 2nd is an individual right, as the people who wrote it insisted, you cannot be taken seriously.
The claim that with the murder rate having gone so high that it will force the loss of the 2nd is only supported by a lack of statistics. Again if you pan attention to the facts you will see that we are in the midst of a dramatic DROP in all crime rates in particular gun crimes. The rational and mature thing would be for calls like yours and Mikes to decrease not to become more frantic.
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