joether
Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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None of these are examples of "A well regulated Milita..." with the exception of #5. They are individuals with firearms acting outside a chain of command, rules, and regulations for engaging hostile targets. Most militia forces would direct someone to...NOT....play hero and wait for back up before proceeding.
Believe it or not, back in the 18th century, there were individuals that had guns and were not part of a militia. However, if a law regarding arms came up, they would have to abid by it, because they....WEREN'T....in a militia nor the arm used part of a militia's usage.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
there are hundreds into the thousands of stories like these---and while the criminals below are not terrorists in the strictest sense, there is enough overlap between the two so that it should nonetheless call into question the premise of the OP and since this information is so readily available, his (and the other leftists here) ability to deal with the facts as well.
"Regardless of where you stand on the issue, it is interesting to note the high number of incidents where legal gun owners were able to use their weapons to stop some horrible crimes. Here are just 8 such stories for you to consider.
Yeah, they 'stopped' some of those mass shooting after people were already dead. Unfortunately did they really stop things before they got bad? You might consult with the dead people; I'm sure they would disagree with you and whomever wrote this plagiarized piece your taking from without giving the author due credit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"1. Marine opens fire in apartment parking lot
"An Oklahoma City marine who was on leave suddenly began opening fire in the parking lot of his apartment complex late last year. Witnesses said he originally tried to go into the apartment complex’s main office, but after employees locked him out, he started to fire his gun in the parking lot. As he was firing, another citizen with a concealed handgun came around the corner and ordered him to drop his weapon. It worked and no one was hurt.
Isn't Oklahoma a land-lock state? What would a marine be doing there? Now its understand why a USMC might be there.
Second, you left...ALOT...of information out. You should know better that liberals on here...RESEARCH...things. We have many, upon, many of examples of conservatives...being flimsy....with evidence to support an equally flimsy argument.
Here is what you 'failed' to report:
"As the man was firing shots, another citizen armed with a gun came around the corner and ordered the gunman to put his weapon down. The gunman dropped his weapon and ran into his father's apartment and barricaded himself inside.
Oklahoma City police, the tactical team and the bomb squad were called out to negotiate with the man. The man finally surrendered just before 7:30 Thursday evening.
Police said the man opened fire because he was upset with his military status.
Several people at the apartments told NEWS 9 the gunman was a Marine who was on leave and came home for the holidays.
Oklahoma City police Capt. Patrick Steward said the man was taken to a hospital for a mental health evaluation. Police also said he was drunk at the time of the incident.
Police are not saying what branch of the military he was in or what his name is.
No one was injured during the incident. The gunman's name has not been released. It's not known if he will be facing any charges."
SOURCE
Apparently that 'CC' individual did not stop things; but the '...Well Regulated Militia...' knows as the police did!
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"2. Restaurant owner shoots, kills armed robbers
"Just a few short days ago, 2 suspects walked into a restaurant to order food. When the employee opened the register, one of the men pulled a handgun and threatened the employees. The suspect then reached over the counter and grabbed the money. He then turned and pointed the gun toward the owner of the restaurant who was sitting at a table in the middle of the restaurant. The owner pulled out his own gun, shot the criminal in the chest, and killed him.
This is....WHY....you give the source. This could have happened, and just as likely....NOT....to have happened. There is no information to check on to valid and vet the information. So its fair to say it never happened.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"3. Man killed in attempted robbery
"In November 2009, career criminal Kevin Duane Dudley walked into an Alabama business with a sawed-off shotgun to commit armed robbery. Thankfully, some shoppers were able to distract Dudley long off for the owner of the store to retrieve his gun and defend himself. The owner ended up shooting and killing the criminal. Dudley had been tied to several other robberies in the area as well as a recent murder.
There is usually much more to a story then you were willing to dig through to make a lame argument.
I think you really should read it. The person you called a 'career criminal' (or the author you plagiarized the information from) doesn't understand the US justice system. In our country, a person is....ONLY...a criminal....AFTER....being convicted of laws broken. Not before. Before, he could be suspected. That's why Timothy McVeigh was considered a 'honest and law abiding' citizen until the moment he was convicted of 11 criminal counts. Did you know that Mr. McVeigh was a big gun guy?
So why did this Dudley person go to The Bait Shop and threaten the owner? Enough to do it with a firearm?
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"4. Two armed robbers get shot during home invasion
"When two masked men with guns broke into his home and pointed their weapons at one of the residents, Cody Buckler immediately took action. He retrieved his gun from upstairs and began shooting at the criminals. The crooks fled the scene, leaving a trail of blood behind them. The criminals were eventually apprehended.
Again, the information you provide is limited and pushing a political ideology. In the thread "Good Points with Firearms" I started the discussion with a Video. Check out the guy's argument at 4:13.
The only reason why the two suspects got caught is they showed up at a hospital. Every hospital has to report gunshot wounds to the police. Didnt take the police long to put two and two together. Where those two suspects there to kill everyone in the house, or steal the TV? They had more than enough time to kill one of the people when they first entered....BUT DIDNT. Why is that?
SOURCE
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"5. Mass shooting stopped by armed volunteer security guard
"In December 2007, Matthew Murray pledged he wanted to kill as many Christians as he could. The 24-year-old went to New Life Church in Colorado Springs and opened fire, killing 4 people in the process. Thankfully, an armed security guard was able to get his her weapon and shoot Murray several times, stopping him from killing any others. However, in the end, it was Murray’s own self-inflicted gunshot that ended up killing him.
Check that video out from Jim Jefferies at 6:34 on the security guard bit....
Back to reality. You and the author of this piece leave out....ALOT....of information to 'make a case'. Mathew Murray was home schooled for most of his life and wanted to become a missionary. I've met many 'home school' individuals and they usually lack the ability to 'get along with others'. The sort of 'stuff' one picks up from their peers in a high school is never learned by home schoolers. Everyone learns in high school how to treat others; home schoolers believe everyone should cave into their wants and needs. Be curious if there is a study showing how many adult Americans whom were home schooled their entire lives have guns compared to the general public.
There was not one shooting, but TWO sets. SOURCE #1, Source #2
Oh an the heroic guard? She told the church a short time later she was gay. They removed her as a security guard. That should show you how 'grateful' those Christians were to having a brave warrior in their church, right? SOURCE
As I mentioned, this would be an example of "a Well Regulated Militia...". This guard had to obey a strict number of duties. Some of those include "when to draw a firearm".
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"6. School shooter stopped by armed college students
"In 2002, a shooting at Appalachian School of Law left 3 people dead. However, the shooter was stopped before he could kill any more people. Thankfully, 2 students were able to run to their cars, get their guns, and use their weapons to halt the rampage.
Yeah there is a wikipedia on this one:
"According to Bridges, at the first sound of gunfire, he and fellow student Mikael Gross, unbeknownst to each other, ran to their vehicles to retrieve their personally-owned firearms[6] placed in their glove compartments. Mikael Gross, a police officer from Grifton, North Carolina retrieved a 9 mm pistol and body armor.[7] Bridges, a county sheriff's deputy from Asheville, North Carolina[8] retrieved his .357 Magnum pistol from beneath the driver's seat of his Chevrolet Tahoe.[9] Bridges and Gross approached Odighizuwa from different angles, with Bridges yelling at Odighizuwa to drop his gun.[10] Odighizuwa then dropped his firearm and was subdued by several other unarmed students, including Ted Besen and Todd Ross.[11]" SOURCE
The two 'students' were both part of "A Well Regulated Militia..." (granted from different police stations). Not some gun nut with a firearm. Funny how the....REAL....information is left out, isnt it? Like someone is trying to push an ideology, eh?
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"7. Grandma stops intruder
"When 69-year-old Ethel Jones heard her doors rattling at 3 a.m., she grabbed her gun from underneath the pillow next to her. She ended up finding an intruder inside her bedroom, forcing her to shoot the teen in the abdomen. The teenager survived and faced charges of second-degree burglary.
While the basic information is true. Its also...basic! You can read the full information in the source below. Curious that she carries a gun around with her at all times. I can understand, given her age why she might have to do this. Yet there are people half her age and very mobile that do the same thing. Why is that?
The suspect was picked up at the hospital. Was he there to kill her or just....rob...her TV?
Again, this has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment doesnt cover individuals and their usage with firearms. That would have been handled under the 10th amendment. The 2nd handles the militia, not the individual whom is not part of said militia. Don't know why this is a difficult concept to understand for some....
SOURCE
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
"8. Pizza Hut delivery driver says his gun saved his life
"An unnamed Pizza Hut delivery driver started carrying a legal concealed handgun to work after being robbed twice in the last 2 years. Just last week, he was robbed by 2 armed men inside the restaurant. The men pistol whipped him and as they started to lift the driver’s shirt exposing his gun, the worker pulled out his weapon and opened fire. He said he had no other choice but to act and save his life."
If you the reader have gotten this far, you know the information bounty is stating above....is not wholly truthful, right?
You would be correct....
The 'unnamed Pizza Hut delievery driver' was named in the media reports on the issue. What is his training with a firearm, you ask? "That man works as delivery driver for the restaurant but he is also a former sheriff s deputy and Charlotte-Mecklenburg police office (spent six years)"
Now wouldn't those two organizations both be part of that '....Well Regulated Militia...' we keep hearing about?
As you read the source material I'm giving, it'll quickly be understood that this guy was in a hellish situation, and the whole thing could have gone badly if the robbers were more perceptive. Imagine what they would have done had they found he had a gun. Wouldn't be living to tell the tale. The robbers were there to....ROB....not to kill people. They had plenty of time to do that when they first entered.
Again, not a 2nd amendment issue, but a 10th amendment.
SOURCE
Conclusion:
Curious that bounty44 does not include all the times people had firearms and failed for one reason or another to use it on those threatening them. As there are plenty more accounts, sadly enough. But in each of these examples, the attackers did not enter firing, with no one getting killed in the process. In #8, if the attackers just entered and started firing; would any of us know of the former police officer and (more importantly) his firearm that was on him?
Even more sad that bounty44 needed to plagiarize someone else's work and still fails to do the research to find the factual information out. Would the USMC guy behaved the way he did if he was not drunk? Would the one guy that 'attacked' him been about to do as he did with the guy not being drunk and subtracted of his normal abilities?
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RE: So armed civillians would have stopped recent terro... - 
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