RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (Full Version)

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lovmuffin -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 4:13:35 AM)

FR
We can add this to the war on poor little gun owners.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/02/racist-former-nyc-mayor-bloomberg-says-black-people-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-own-guns/

........during a lecture at the Aspen Institute on February 6th, the former mayor literally suggested banning African Americans and Latinos from owning guns… at least until they are much older than their Caucasian neighbors.

Michael Bloomberg is surrounded by private security guards who own and carry guns to protect him. They have been spotted illegally carrying weapons in Washington D.C. The mayor has refused to comment on why he is always surrounded by men with guns if he is so against gun ownership. But make no mistake, former mayor Bloomberg does not have a problem with guns, he has a problem with poor and so-called “minority” communities having the same access, at the same ages, to the firearms that affluent Caucasian communities do.




Aylee -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 5:51:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

FR
We can add this to the war on poor little gun owners.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/02/racist-former-nyc-mayor-bloomberg-says-black-people-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-own-guns/

........during a lecture at the Aspen Institute on February 6th, the former mayor literally suggested banning African Americans and Latinos from owning guns… at least until they are much older than their Caucasian neighbors.

Michael Bloomberg is surrounded by private security guards who own and carry guns to protect him. They have been spotted illegally carrying weapons in Washington D.C. The mayor has refused to comment on why he is always surrounded by men with guns if he is so against gun ownership. But make no mistake, former mayor Bloomberg does not have a problem with guns, he has a problem with poor and so-called “minority” communities having the same access, at the same ages, to the firearms that affluent Caucasian communities do.



Well, too be fair, the ruling class doesn't much like poor or minority people.




Lucylastic -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 6:09:38 AM)

Guns make campus rape victims less safe, not more

In a move that would be ironic if it weren’t so sadly predictable, the gun lobby is attempting to co-opt the anti-sexual violence movement for its own violent ends.

Lawmakers in 10 states including Florida, Nevada, and Texas are pushing legislation that claims to reduce sexual violence — by arming students with guns. The legislation seeks to overturn bans on carrying guns on college campuses. As Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said, “If these young, hot little girls on campus have a firearm, I wonder how many men will want to assault them. The sexual assaults that are occurring would go down once these sexual predators get a bullet in their head.”

But easily accessible weapons on campus won’t reduce violence. Instead, they’ll put even more students in danger.

The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run. Actually, women (and people of other genders) are most in danger while with someone they know and trust. Studies demonstrate that the vast majority of campus victims were raped by a partner, friend, or close acquaintance.

The gun lobby elides the fact that the high-profile stories to which it implicitly appeals – the stories of young women like Emma Sulkowicz at Columbia and Angie Epifano at Amherst – are stories of violence at the hands of trusted friends. These close classmates are precisely the people around which victims will never think to carry a gun – let alone use one.


“The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run.”

Not only will guns fail to reduce sexual violence, they will increase it. Guns are the most common weapon used in the murders of intimate partners. Time and again, research has shown that having guns in the home exacerbates domestic violence: The Department of Justice found that in the U.S. between 2000 and 2012 7,454 women were shot to death by intimate partners. Of intimate partner murders around that period, nearly half — 48% — involved a gun. For victims in abusive dating relationships, guns can be a death sentence: The mere presence of a gun increases the risk of homicide by 500%.
The widespread use of alcohol and other drugs on college campuses only intensifies the danger to victims and unwitting bystanders.

At the end of the day, using a gun in self-defense often leads to terrible repercussions for the victims who try to protect themselves. One need only look to Marissa Alexander, a survivor of domestic violence who was imprisoned for three years, and is now confined to house arrest, for merely firing a warning shot into the air when her abuser threatened her. Alexander is from Florida, one of the states considering permitting guns on campus under the guise of stopping rape.




Aylee -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 7:51:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Guns make campus rape victims less safe, not more

In a move that would be ironic if it weren’t so sadly predictable, the gun lobby is attempting to co-opt the anti-sexual violence movement for its own violent ends.

Lawmakers in 10 states including Florida, Nevada, and Texas are pushing legislation that claims to reduce sexual violence — by arming students with guns. The legislation seeks to overturn bans on carrying guns on college campuses. As Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said, “If these young, hot little girls on campus have a firearm, I wonder how many men will want to assault them. The sexual assaults that are occurring would go down once these sexual predators get a bullet in their head.”

But easily accessible weapons on campus won’t reduce violence. Instead, they’ll put even more students in danger.

The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run. Actually, women (and people of other genders) are most in danger while with someone they know and trust. Studies demonstrate that the vast majority of campus victims were raped by a partner, friend, or close acquaintance.

The gun lobby elides the fact that the high-profile stories to which it implicitly appeals – the stories of young women like Emma Sulkowicz at Columbia and Angie Epifano at Amherst – are stories of violence at the hands of trusted friends. These close classmates are precisely the people around which victims will never think to carry a gun – let alone use one.


“The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run.”

Not only will guns fail to reduce sexual violence, they will increase it. Guns are the most common weapon used in the murders of intimate partners. Time and again, research has shown that having guns in the home exacerbates domestic violence: The Department of Justice found that in the U.S. between 2000 and 2012 7,454 women were shot to death by intimate partners. Of intimate partner murders around that period, nearly half — 48% — involved a gun. For victims in abusive dating relationships, guns can be a death sentence: The mere presence of a gun increases the risk of homicide by 500%.
The widespread use of alcohol and other drugs on college campuses only intensifies the danger to victims and unwitting bystanders.

At the end of the day, using a gun in self-defense often leads to terrible repercussions for the victims who try to protect themselves. One need only look to Marissa Alexander, a survivor of domestic violence who was imprisoned for three years, and is now confined to house arrest, for merely firing a warning shot into the air when her abuser threatened her. Alexander is from Florida, one of the states considering permitting guns on campus under the guise of stopping rape.


Defensive gun use is not a myth.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOdXjS5QBG8




Lucylastic -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 8:01:08 AM)

Gary Kleck again
been debunked more than fox news
but go ahead, deny it all you want:)




Sanity -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 8:44:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Well, too be fair, the ruling class doesn't much like poor or minority people.


They can sure use them though

They throw them some free (taxpayer paid) crumbs in exchange for their votes, and keep them addicted to handouts so they will always have that vote




joether -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 9:21:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
We shall see what happens when some disaffected depressed freshman eats her own gun that mom and dad thought would keep her safe from rape.
Talk about a law of unintended consequences ......That's a guilt that will haunt and haunt a family till it tears them apart.

So, it's your belief that all these depressed students won't commit suicide if they don't have a gun?

In the college population, however, the most frequent methods are hanging and jumping.
http://cms.bsu.edu/campuslife/counselingcenter/newsfooteritems/dealingwithstressdepressionanxietysuicideandtraumaticevents/suicide/commonquestionsandanswersaboutsuicide

Given that there are an estimated 1350 suicides among all college students, that's a lot of jumping and hanging. Do you really think that giving someone a gun will encourage them to kill themselves? Because it seems as if those who want to WILL find a way.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/small-steps/201002/whose-life-is-anyway-when-college-students-kill-themselves


Your knowledge and education on Depression and suicide has been observed to be rudimentary at best. Now, you want to talk about a higher level subject matter and sound like you have a clue. To a bunch of people that understand the subject matter quite well.....

Why do college get depressed?

Why do they hang or jump of something to their deaths?

The pressure to do well in college comes from multiple sources and reasons. Fully half of them from the individual themselves. I still have nightmares of college papers not done or exams I didnt study for well enough. Take to those with college degrees that pushed to get those 4.0s. They'll tell you they have had similar dreams and nightmares. Educated people, would look at the two questions above that I give and try to answer them. Not to slam me for being ignorant, but educate on the answer(s). That way, I am better informed.

Firearms, in the hangs of depressed individuals is a very serious thing. That you cant understand it, shows the depth of ignorance all of us see on your part. Have you ever talked down someone thinking of killing themselves, when the method of that destruction is at hand or very close by? Speaking from experience, its....FUCKING TOUCH AS SHIT! An after people get those away from the moment, try to get them actual help!

I was curious....so I looked up "college suicide method" on google. Curiously, death from Depression (which is how one might define it better) is by Firearms. It makes perfect sense. Firearms are easy to obtain (depending on state). They are simple to use. And the success rate is nine times over all other methods. Things are over quickly is another...BIG...consideration.





BamaD -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 9:26:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
We shall see what happens when some disaffected depressed freshman eats her own gun that mom and dad thought would keep her safe from rape.
Talk about a law of unintended consequences ......That's a guilt that will haunt and haunt a family till it tears them apart.

So, it's your belief that all these depressed students won't commit suicide if they don't have a gun?

In the college population, however, the most frequent methods are hanging and jumping.
http://cms.bsu.edu/campuslife/counselingcenter/newsfooteritems/dealingwithstressdepressionanxietysuicideandtraumaticevents/suicide/commonquestionsandanswersaboutsuicide

Given that there are an estimated 1350 suicides among all college students, that's a lot of jumping and hanging. Do you really think that giving someone a gun will encourage them to kill themselves? Because it seems as if those who want to WILL find a way.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/small-steps/201002/whose-life-is-anyway-when-college-students-kill-themselves


Your knowledge and education on Depression and suicide has been observed to be rudimentary at best. Now, you want to talk about a higher level subject matter and sound like you have a clue. To a bunch of people that understand the subject matter quite well.....

Why do college get depressed?

Why do they hang or jump of something to their deaths?

The pressure to do well in college comes from multiple sources and reasons. Fully half of them from the individual themselves. I still have nightmares of college papers not done or exams I didnt study for well enough. Take to those with college degrees that pushed to get those 4.0s. They'll tell you they have had similar dreams and nightmares. Educated people, would look at the two questions above that I give and try to answer them. Not to slam me for being ignorant, but educate on the answer(s). That way, I am better informed.

Firearms, in the hangs of depressed individuals is a very serious thing. That you cant understand it, shows the depth of ignorance all of us see on your part. Have you ever talked down someone thinking of killing themselves, when the method of that destruction is at hand or very close by? Speaking from experience, its....FUCKING TOUCH AS SHIT! An after people get those away from the moment, try to get them actual help!

I was curious....so I looked up "college suicide method" on google. Curiously, death from Depression (which is how one might define it better) is by Firearms. It makes perfect sense. Firearms are easy to obtain (depending on state). They are simple to use. And the success rate is nine times over all other methods. Things are over quickly is another...BIG...consideration.



Yes of course, we didn't realize that firearms are so much easier to obtain than a 4th story window or a rope, how silly of us not to realize it.




tj444 -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 10:03:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
In a move that would be ironic if it weren’t so sadly predictable, the gun lobby is attempting to co-opt the anti-sexual violence movement for its own violent ends.

well.. the gun lobby is gun mfrs and of course women are a fairly untapped and ripe market.. so its just "good marketing" for them to lobby for changes.. are you against capitalism or something??? [sm=duck.gif]
(I am being sarcastic, of course)




Lucylastic -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 10:06:40 AM)

[:D]




bounty44 -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 10:54:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Gary Kleck again
been debunked more than fox news
but go ahead, deny it all you want:)



if you look at aylee's link you will see the piece is less than a week old, and in it, the man you are deriding actually addresses the "supposed debunking."

and how much better actually to read kleck's study and then arrive at our own conclusions from his work, rather than to take someone else's word for it?

when we do the latter---its much more like we already have our minds made up as to what we want to hear, and then we are so much more willing to hear it and accept it as "the truth" without a rigorous critical examination.




MercTech -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 11:00:45 AM)

a> Does a college have the right to deny a constitutional right by a policy statement?
It depends on state law. The right for an adult to keep and bear arms no longer is allowed to be denied blatantly but a reason to deny the constitutional right must be proven to stand up in court. This is a change from what was done decades ago before the court ruling that the government has to prove a reason why not to issue a permit rather than the person having to prove a need to have a permit for concealed carry.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/guns-on-campus-overview.aspx

Blanket bans have been ruled not to be legal in many venues. The question as to how much abrogation of rights for the public safety has yet to be settled out in the courts. This isn't an "OMG they are making guns legal on campus" issue. It is a "blanket bans of constitutional rights is not legal". Colleges are going to have to re-think and re-word weapon bans on campus to stand a test of whether it is a public safety issue. Something like a ban of weapons at sporting events or in class areas where large numbers of students will be congregating would, to my mind, stand the legal test.




Aylee -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 11:45:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
We shall see what happens when some disaffected depressed freshman eats her own gun that mom and dad thought would keep her safe from rape.
Talk about a law of unintended consequences ......That's a guilt that will haunt and haunt a family till it tears them apart.

So, it's your belief that all these depressed students won't commit suicide if they don't have a gun?

In the college population, however, the most frequent methods are hanging and jumping.
http://cms.bsu.edu/campuslife/counselingcenter/newsfooteritems/dealingwithstressdepressionanxietysuicideandtraumaticevents/suicide/commonquestionsandanswersaboutsuicide

Given that there are an estimated 1350 suicides among all college students, that's a lot of jumping and hanging. Do you really think that giving someone a gun will encourage them to kill themselves? Because it seems as if those who want to WILL find a way.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/small-steps/201002/whose-life-is-anyway-when-college-students-kill-themselves


Your knowledge and education on Depression and suicide has been observed to be rudimentary at best. Now, you want to talk about a higher level subject matter and sound like you have a clue. To a bunch of people that understand the subject matter quite well.....

Why do college get depressed?

Why do they hang or jump of something to their deaths?

The pressure to do well in college comes from multiple sources and reasons. Fully half of them from the individual themselves. I still have nightmares of college papers not done or exams I didnt study for well enough. Take to those with college degrees that pushed to get those 4.0s. They'll tell you they have had similar dreams and nightmares. Educated people, would look at the two questions above that I give and try to answer them. Not to slam me for being ignorant, but educate on the answer(s). That way, I am better informed.

Firearms, in the hangs of depressed individuals is a very serious thing. That you cant understand it, shows the depth of ignorance all of us see on your part. Have you ever talked down someone thinking of killing themselves, when the method of that destruction is at hand or very close by? Speaking from experience, its....FUCKING TOUCH AS SHIT! An after people get those away from the moment, try to get them actual help!

I was curious....so I looked up "college suicide method" on google. Curiously, death from Depression (which is how one might define it better) is by Firearms. It makes perfect sense. Firearms are easy to obtain (depending on state). They are simple to use. And the success rate is nine times over all other methods. Things are over quickly is another...BIG...consideration.



Yes of course, we didn't realize that firearms are so much easier to obtain than a 4th story window or a rope, how silly of us not to realize it.


Seriously, these are college students with access to all sorts of information. If they cannot find an alternative means for offing themselves as opposed to a gun then perhaps college is really not for them. [8|]

Personally I would want something a little more creative and memorable. We ARE talking about my last act and all. [:D]




HunterCA -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 12:37:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Guns make campus rape victims less safe, not more

In a move that would be ironic if it weren’t so sadly predictable, the gun lobby is attempting to co-opt the anti-sexual violence movement for its own violent ends.

Lawmakers in 10 states including Florida, Nevada, and Texas are pushing legislation that claims to reduce sexual violence — by arming students with guns. The legislation seeks to overturn bans on carrying guns on college campuses. As Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said, “If these young, hot little girls on campus have a firearm, I wonder how many men will want to assault them. The sexual assaults that are occurring would go down once these sexual predators get a bullet in their head.”

But easily accessible weapons on campus won’t reduce violence. Instead, they’ll put even more students in danger.

The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run. Actually, women (and people of other genders) are most in danger while with someone they know and trust. Studies demonstrate that the vast majority of campus victims were raped by a partner, friend, or close acquaintance.

The gun lobby elides the fact that the high-profile stories to which it implicitly appeals – the stories of young women like Emma Sulkowicz at Columbia and Angie Epifano at Amherst – are stories of violence at the hands of trusted friends. These close classmates are precisely the people around which victims will never think to carry a gun – let alone use one.


“The lawmakers’ efforts have built legislation on a classic rape myth: that the greatest threat to a woman is a stranger lurking in the bushes on her late-night run.”

Not only will guns fail to reduce sexual violence, they will increase it. Guns are the most common weapon used in the murders of intimate partners. Time and again, research has shown that having guns in the home exacerbates domestic violence: The Department of Justice found that in the U.S. between 2000 and 2012 7,454 women were shot to death by intimate partners. Of intimate partner murders around that period, nearly half — 48% — involved a gun. For victims in abusive dating relationships, guns can be a death sentence: The mere presence of a gun increases the risk of homicide by 500%.
The widespread use of alcohol and other drugs on college campuses only intensifies the danger to victims and unwitting bystanders.

At the end of the day, using a gun in self-defense often leads to terrible repercussions for the victims who try to protect themselves. One need only look to Marissa Alexander, a survivor of domestic violence who was imprisoned for three years, and is now confined to house arrest, for merely firing a warning shot into the air when her abuser threatened her. Alexander is from Florida, one of the states considering permitting guns on campus under the guise of stopping rape.


As far as 7,454 women being shot by intimates, that's terrible but studies show that guns in homes prevent more than a million crimes every year. Additionally, studies that detail women fighting back against rape actually have a higher percentage of survival and less damage under all but one circumstance. The one low odds circumstance is when women fight back completely unarmed. Those women tend to suffer proportionally worse damage. But, fighting back armed with keys, a knife, a gun, or a stick increases a woman's odds of getting away safe. It's just that when anti-gun people use the studies, they use the fighting back unarmed stats to make a confused point.




Lucylastic -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 12:54:14 PM)

show your links

To legitimate sources.





HunterCA -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 1:09:17 PM)

Another quick Google shows that in the year 2000, 13,322 people died in the US by falling down stairs or off furniture. We can save them too. All of the links have been submitted in previous discussions. It's just the "anti's" keep forgetting them. I'd suggest if you want to discuss things factually, that you make yourself aware.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 1:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Another quick Google shows that in the year 2000, 13,322 people died in the US by falling down stairs or off furniture. We can save them too.

Your rebuttal is irrelevant.

In case you hadn't noticed..... this is a gun thread!! [8|]




HunterCA -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 1:25:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Another quick Google shows that in the year 2000, 13,322 people died in the US by falling down stairs or off furniture. We can save them too.

Your rebuttal is irrelevant.

In case you hadn't noticed..... this is a gun thread!! [8|]


Actually, freedom, your response is pretty silly. A previous post mentioned seven some odd thousand women were killed by spouses, half with guns, as a reason to curtail inalienable rights. I pointed out four times as many people die falling down stairs to illustrate that the statistics being used to argue taking away rights is fallacious. But I know that sort of reasoning may be beyond you.




CreativeDominant -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 2:26:09 PM)

Something that is conveniently forgotten is this...yes, 48% of women killed by their partners were killed with guns. That's terrible BUT 52% are killed by...other...methods.

It is a sad state of affairs but the truth of the matter is...if your partner wants to kill you, they WILL find a way.




HunterCA -> RE: The continuing war on poor little gun owners... (2/20/2015 2:56:23 PM)

Yes, Lucylastics argument was severely deficient in all but emotional tug and the zeal to control people's rights, agreed.




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