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Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 11:59:07 AM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
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It is just something I cannot take seriously in a Dominant.
I am wondering if anyone else has witnessed or had experience of this on the scene.

I love my dominant or sadist to be able to take control of me with calm confident authority. To give us both exactly what we need. To enjoy me and inspire me and make me stronger. To be proud of my success in life and to be the calm influence that makes me want to achieve more.

I am horrified by the Dominants/masters and sadists that see fit to break a submissive, to change them, hold them back, beat them down and deny them pleasure and freedom to choose in any aspect of their life. I see it as weakness, not control.

In my opinion (and you might not agree) they want to control something so broken that it would never leave them because it would never be strong enough, or see itself as of any value. It has no needs, no opinion, nothing but the willingness to serve. Now whilst I am sure to many that sounds like a Dom's wet dream... I live in the real world... and subs are people.
If you can't appreciate them as people, you don't deserve to have one!

I have unfortunately experienced this for real. My negative experience of insecure domination happened when I was quite young, largely against my will, and took me years to get over.

I am only just re-discovering my submissive/masochistic side again, and carefully learning to trust people to look after her! Now when I see insecurity tainting a D/s relationship it angers me. It is wrong.

I cannot look at those people and see them as Dom or Master. They are weak.

Some of the profiles here are more than a little disturbing too!
But obviously I am a complete failure as a sub for not falling at the feet of every demanding idiot that sends me a list of demands... lol

What are your thoughts and experiences of this?

Post #: 1

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:09:57 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
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I would not want a dominant who was pathologically insecure. My domme is a maternal type, and I like that. I'm not a big fan of the bitch-goddess women.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/19/2015 12:10:26 PM >

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 2

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:17:43 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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To each their own. As long as there is consent on both sides, who is anyone to judge from the outside?

There are people out there who *choose* not to have freedom in their life. They simply have the willingness to serve, to be what their partner wants at all times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

If you can't appreciate them as people, you don't deserve to have one!

Who's the judge of this?

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:21:55 PM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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My dynamic is based on "Der beste oder Nichts". I expect the best from her, and I expect her to expect the best from me. There is no margin for failure... I may find a hundred different ways to do X wrong, but I will not fail, because I can continue for another hundred, thousand, million times... whatever it takes, and I can trust that she is going to be my personal cheerleader and rock solid council until I have the "best" success with X that I can achieve.

This road goes both ways. I could belittle any failure and break her, or encourage her through any actions/means necessary until she achieves the level of success she is looking for. She doesn't need me as her M, she wants me as her M. She needs me to be the best partner and mate for her I can be and I will always be that for her. I am secure enough in myself to choose a girl that doesn't need me as her M, wants me as her M, and needs me to be her mate. She operates just fine and dandy on her own, she just gets more happy with me than without me.

_____________________________

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 4

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:30:34 PM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

I think you can appreciate someone who is naturally subservient as a person without breaking them or reducing them to nothing. Without telling them that their needs are irrelevant.
If that is their genuine need and desire then they are, in that relationship, having their needs met. (not my best explanation ever... more coffee needed)
I think what angers me is when that is NOT the case, when it is selfish, or damaging.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 5

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:32:12 PM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

I could belittle any failure and break her, or encourage her through any actions/means necessary until she achieves the level of success she is looking for. She doesn't need me as her M, she wants me as her M. She needs me to be the best partner and mate for her I can be and I will always be that for her. I am secure enough in myself to choose a girl that doesn't need me as her M, wants me as her M, and needs me to be her mate. She operates just fine and dandy on her own, she just gets more happy with me than without me.

You explain this far more eloquently than I do! :)

That was beautiful to read.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 6

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 12:49:43 PM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

I think you can appreciate someone who is naturally subservient as a person without breaking them or reducing them to nothing. Without telling them that their needs are irrelevant.
If that is their genuine need and desire then they are, in that relationship, having their needs met. (not my best explanation ever... more coffee needed)
I think what angers me is when that is NOT the case, when it is selfish, or damaging.

I absolutely agree. But how does one judge "selfishness" or "damage" if they are not parties to the relationship?

For example, I am not a masochist. From my POV, a lot of profiles on here are extremely disturbing. "Caring sadist" is not a phrase that works for me.

With that being said, who am I to judge what works for other people?

As far as the "lists of demands" go-- who knows, there may very well be people out there who get off on that. I suppose, at the end of the day, I have an issue with a statement like "if you can't treat your sub as a person, you don't deserve to have one". There is a lot of subjectivity that goes into that.

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 7

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 1:54:02 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

I think you can appreciate someone who is naturally subservient as a person without breaking them or reducing them to nothing. Without telling them that their needs are irrelevant.
If that is their genuine need and desire then they are, in that relationship, having their needs met. (not my best explanation ever... more coffee needed)
I think what angers me is when that is NOT the case, when it is selfish, or damaging.

Bad relationships exist because they do. Unhealthy relationships exist because they do. This has less to do with BDSM than it does choice of partner.

What you see as abusive may not be. ExiledTyrant said in another thread that if what he does with his partner were seen in public, people would be hard pressed to agree that it was consensual. Abuse? Damaging? Not when the other is a willing, consensual participant, it isn't. I knew a woman at one point, a pain slut who could not get off without getting beaten and bones broken. She knew exactly what she was doing, albeit she acknowledged that her behavior was edgy and high-risk, was I going to sit there and tell her she was wrong? I told her it was dangerous, but she knew that already.

Now, if you are championing those that do not know better, that is fine, but let's make that distinction before we go any further.

_____________________________

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 8

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 1:59:06 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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So what about people who get off on suffering for others? Who find pleasure in being denied any pleasure?

And who set you up as judge and jury? What if they think you weak for not being confident enough to allow someone else that level of control? Should they have the right to call you names?

Instead of blaming all the guys for this, why not blame yourself for picking this person? Why not examine why you chose someone unhealthy? Why you were so unhealthy to only be attracted to, and by, unhealthy men? You chose this person, what did you get out of it?

Personally I think that people who put all the blame on others and take no personal responsibility are too unhealthy to be in a relationship, but I don't start threads putting down those who are. I hope they'll get help becoming stronger in the future and I offer support instead of moral superiority. YMMV.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 9

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 2:45:21 PM

areallivehuman

Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline

What pleasure is owning something that's broken? If I can't use it , it's of no value to me. I may modify it, tighten it up, maybe an overhaul if it's badly worn. Make it perform the way I want. Use it, wear it out, start over.

Pardon my motorcycle withdrawal.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 10

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 2:58:55 PM

vivaciousgrace

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2014
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I think there is a time and a place for a list of demands and your first encounter with a complete stranger is not the time or the place. (obviously just my opinion, as is anything else, I posted to hear other people's opinions, not to be slated, but as ever, thanks for the replies!)
Personally I like to spend time getting to know quite a bit more about someone, then decide I feel comfortable enough to want to give them control, then... demand away.

As for past experience, I was underage, and the 'gentleman' in question terrified me. Consent was not high on his agenda.

I am not here to be anyone's judge or jury (though apparently YOU are?) I was looking to start a general conversation about peoples opinions and experiences. Which will undoubtedly differ from my own, and thus make for interesting conversation hopefully. Could we perhaps stick to that.
I did not start a thread to put people down, or to be put down by other people, and I apologise if it was taken that way.

Remind me to get you to proof read my threads in future!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 11

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 3:06:35 PM

littleladybug

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So, what are some examples of what you see as "insecurity tainting a D/s relationship"? What is it, specifically, that you see that makes you angry?

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 12

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 3:31:20 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
Bad relationships exist because they do. Unhealthy relationships exist because they do. This has less to do with BDSM than it does choice of partner.

What you see as abusive may not be. ExiledTyrant said in another thread that if what he does with his partner were seen in public, people would be hard pressed to agree that it was consensual. Abuse? Damaging? Not when the other is a willing, consensual participant, it isn't. I knew a woman at one point, a pain slut who could not get off without getting beaten and bones broken. She knew exactly what she was doing, albeit she acknowledged that her behavior was edgy and high-risk, was I going to sit there and tell her she was wrong? I told her it was dangerous, but she knew that already.

Now, if you are championing those that do not know better, that is fine, but let's make that distinction before we go any further.

Exactly. To be honest it took me a while to catch on with the vast differences in dynamics because some like quiet authority only, or kink only whereas all I have known are power exchanges and continuous edge play. This would not be acceptable for a lot of people on here but I liked the adrenaline rush from just "going with it" from the moment we met. Now I am a bit kinder, gentler and patient with my current sub but that's because he literally is almost always emotionally right there with me. Perfect response, reaction, sentiment and disposition. He's just the bomb diggity, LOL.
I am a sadist by nature therefore I have to withdraw from situations which cause it to emerge without a healthy outlet and lately I have been submerging myself in accomplishing personal goals. But never have I had a "bad" submissive encounter. Weird, yes. Risky, yes, but never bad. I am more into inflicting pain than humiliation. Some prefer humiliation to pain, Some would not touch either with a ten foot pole. But if you know I am keeping you on your toes from day one, hopefully you know what to expect.
ETA, honestly I did see some "insecure" Dom posts from a Dom in particular who made his slave wear oddball clothes to her workplace because she was attractive. That seemed like a giant leap in the wrong direction to me personally and very insecure.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 2/19/2015 3:35:15 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 13

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/19/2015 4:06:58 PM

satanscharmer

Posts: 376
Status: offline

Insecurity can be a fickle bitch sometimes and can affect a person's behavior or mood, or how they treat another person.
Many people carry some sort of insecurity with them. Whether or not it affects their personal relationships is entirely based on the individual.

I have my own, although I tend to react very differently than some when overcome by my insecurity, so I understand what it can do to a person. I tend to be pretty forgiving of negative behavior resulting from a person's insecurities. However, I do have a limit and could not be in a relationship where my treatment was ruled by it.
I feed off of others vibes, so if I feel as though everything is coming from a negative place, it's going to feel negative.

(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 14

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/20/2015 9:36:47 AM

DesFIP

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I think being clear about what you do and don't want in the very beginning is the right way to do it. It means someone isn't trying to sucker you into a commitment and then springing it on you. If it comes upfront, then you know immediately if there's any compatibility or not and if not, you don't waste time talking to someone you can't be happy with.

But if you shouldn't do it on the first discussion, op, then when should you? Third date? Three months in? Two years?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to satanscharmer)

Post #: 15

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/20/2015 11:04:18 AM

satanscharmer

Posts: 376
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I think being clear about what you do and don't want in the very beginning is the right way to do it. It means someone isn't trying to sucker you into a commitment and then springing it on you. If it comes upfront, then you know immediately if there's any compatibility or not and if not, you don't waste time talking to someone you can't be happy with.

But if you shouldn't do it on the first discussion, op, then when should you? Third date? Three months in? Two years?

Likes, dislikes, what one is looking for in a partner absolutely seems appropriate for a first date.
If we're referring to insecurities, though, not many people delve into that type of stuff on the first date...or do they?

On one hand, I can see it as a way to bait and switch. On the other, if all the bad is shoved out in the open in the beginning it could easily scare a person away that otherwise is a great match. Everyone has flaws and/or quirks, often they are much easier to look past if we have feelings for someone. Not to mention, to me at least, listing all the negatives up front seems...negative. I would be turned off by someone that seemed focused on their negative attributes. I'd rather get to know a person over time.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/21/2015 12:51:49 AM

vivaciousgrace

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Joined: 12/13/2014
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I think this is possibly a personal preference, but should I be meeting a potential Dominant partner my initial focus is usually on what kind of whole person I am dealing with, though we will undoubtedly have looked at each others 'tick lists' of likes and dislikes to check things match up, I tend to leave the indepth discussion of that alone to start with.
Because of the nature of the dynamic, before I jump into the fun stuff (or not so fun stuff) I need some reassurance that the person i am dealing with is a responsible, considerate, intelligent and well adjusted human being.
I need to build some kind of connection first, and then look at the kinky stuff later.
This does mean that sometimes we have built up a pretty solid friendship, but then find that kink wise we are not on the same page...

But I don't see an issue with that. Friends on the scene are a wonderful thing!

But hopefully if we do have plenty to enjoy together in kink then I will be able to go into that experience feeling safe and able to relax and give myself over to it completely. And yes, that might take months. But I am absolutely OK with that. People who want quicker results refer to me as a time waster. But I don't see it as wasted time.

Meeting a potential sub partner I take a similar approach. I want them to feel safe and confident in my abilities as a dominant. I want to go into that situation 100% confident that I understand what works for my sub, and what doesn't. What their limits are, how best to approach new practices. What makes them tick in general. I want to know that by the time I take the reins completely we are both able to fully immerse ourselves in that experience and we are both getting our needs met, whatever they are.
(And I can't be doing a bad job, I ended up married to the last one, and we are still friends now LOL)

Also, all that getting to know you slowly stuff is GREAT for building tension!

The main thing for me is that each partner has a full and complete understanding of the others needs, whatever they are. And they enter into that dynamic after deciding if those needs match.

What troubles me is those that jump quickly into play with people and then tell them what their needs should be. Or who tell their partner's "you have no needs" and refuse to allow them to develop as a person, a sub or a dom because this does go both ways.

Those who message me telling me that I SHALL serve them in the following ways... reel off a lovely list that includes things clearly stated as things I am NOT ok with (at least take the time to read the profile, people) and do not show any interest in or concern for what I may or may not be getting out of this wonderful arrangement. Or who literally state that what I want is irrelevant.

Now don't get me wrong, what I want may well include just exactly what you are itching to do to me.
But even if someone basically messages me with my favourite, most filthy and depraved masochistic fantasy scenario... I am still going to say "no thankyou" to a complete stranger who I know nothing about and who has shown no inclination to get to know me, to reassure me that they are a whole, intelligent, well adjusted human being, who might possibly be a complete psychopath and leave me buried in a shallow grave... (OK that is a bit dramatic, but its not impossible)

I do require that even my most evil sadist friends are considering my safety and my needs/limits before I let them lock me in restraints and do delicious and horrible things to me.

I would never comment on the way people play when I am out and about on the scene. The way things look from the outside and the way they feel within that scene can be very different. And some of my friends like to play very hard. But a lot can be learned from the way people interact when not playing, how they deal with aftercare, how they are if you meet them in a normal day to day situation. And they things they say separately and in private.

A young sub friend of mine messaged me recently that her partner has her under virtual house arrest at the moment and it is upsetting her. She can't see friends or family without him with her. She is upset by his current behaviour, and cannot get any space away from it. Nothing they do is for her pleasure, only his. He is currently out of work and never lets her out of his sight. He doesn't want a job himself, wants her to webcam for money which she is not comfortable with... none of this is ok to me. His attitude is "she will do as she is f'ing told" I don't remember her agreeing to putting up with this as part of their dynamic but apparently that is now a requirement. She is hoping he will sort himself out in time.

To me, If you get to the point where you are having to send secret texts to the friends you are no longer allowed to interact with... something went horribly wrong.

**Edited. TWICE. To fix typos, and there are probably still some. Note to self... stop posting when you are tired! You can't type properly!***

< Message edited by vivaciousgrace -- 2/21/2015 12:57:46 AM >

(in reply to satanscharmer)

Post #: 17

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/21/2015 4:01:15 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vivaciousgrace

A young sub friend of mine messaged me recently that her partner has her under virtual house arrest at the moment and it is upsetting her. She can't see friends or family without him with her. She is upset by his current behaviour, and cannot get any space away from it. Nothing they do is for her pleasure, only his. He is currently out of work and never lets her out of his sight. He doesn't want a job himself, wants her to webcam for money which she is not comfortable with... none of this is ok to me. His attitude is "she will do as she is f'ing told" I don't remember her agreeing to putting up with this as part of their dynamic but apparently that is now a requirement. She is hoping he will sort himself out in time.

To me, If you get to the point where you are having to send secret texts to the friends you are no longer allowed to interact with... something went horribly wrong.

Hi Grace, I only quoted this paragraph of your post because its relevant to what I have to say.

I'm sure a lot of people would suggest that if she doesn't like it to get the hell out and that she only has to agree to his imprisonment if she still considers herself his sub/slave. I would say, this sort of thing happens to run of the mill people who aren't in this lifestyle. Conditioning is a slow process that creeps up on the unaware. Predator types are very good at camouflaging their real intentions and clever at creating deep bonds with their lover. They are good at creating emotional dependency within this toxic relationship but its usually a slow process where they disarm their victim (and I say victim because people like your friend are just that). Within a Ms relationship the submissive is less suspicious because his demands are more normative. Once a bond is created the submissive is much more complicit to his unreasonable demands than a vanilla person would be and this is why I have always said, this lifestyle is a feeding ground for predator types. As she loses confidence in life she will become more and more reliant on him and although she may want to get out, her world will be filled with a mixture denial and wretchedness. A world without her shackles becomes a very formidable place.

I have walked a mile in her shoes; not as a submissive or a dominant woman but just within a regular relationship. I know how difficult it is to reach out and talk to anyone about what's going on. People are so ready to come and rescue you (I guess that's human nature). They can't just listen but want to advise you and advice is the last thing you need because you already know what they insist on telling you. Having a listening sympathetic ear for people like your friend is SO important. Knowing your friends are not going to try and influence you or make matters worse is crucial. Without those guarantees she's likely to shut down and convince you that everything is okay...fear made me do that even though mine wasn't a physically abusive relationship.

I hope your friend does manage to get away from this man but she will need to do it in her own time when she's ready.

_____________________________

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(in reply to vivaciousgrace)

Post #: 18

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/21/2015 9:15:02 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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I'm not sure what you mean by "breaking", but I have no doubt it was not a pleasant experience.

I Dominate in my own way. I work with her as she is. I nudge her to get her where I want her to be.

"Personally I like to spend time getting to know quite a bit more about someone, then decide I feel comfortable enough to want to give them control, then... demand away. "

That's not my style. I don't have a switch that clicks and it becomes a green light for everything. In my relationships, the trust and ability to control grow over time.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 19

RE: Dominating from a position of insecurity - 2/21/2015 2:22:51 PM

petitespot

Posts: 288
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Surfside Beach, SC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

In my relationships, the trust and ability to control grow over time.

I think most longer term, successful relationships have this factor in common.
I think it's healthier when it grows slowly.

_____________________________

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 20

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