Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways

Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (Full Version)

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smileforme50 -> Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 9:26:24 AM)
I've heard this same general concept from a multitude of Dominants and I just don't get it. I guess I have too much of a black & white concept of good & bad, being nice or mean, love & hate, etc. To me, love & hate and nice & mean are such polar opposites that I see that there are very distinct ways to demonstrate each of these emotions and it would be very difficult for anyone to confuse one for the other. Yes...there are "pain sluts" and to someone who doesn't like pain, the idea of receiving ANY type of pain goes against their accepted definition of love. Even though for the pain slut it IS love. I can understand the physical concept of these things....even if that's not the way I am. I know that there are masochists out there who actually ENJOY physical pain, and that's great for them and I don't question that. What I don't understand are some of the more mental/emotional things. For instance, someone I was talking to recently has the following on his profile: "I practice the principle of HARD: honor, accountability, responsibility and duty." "I seek a female that chooses to be a lesser vessel; to be loved, cared for and led by a man. I believe that men should function as the Head of Household (HOH) and that women are to be taken in hand and led as such." Yet in conversation with him he also told me that the slave he takes needs to understand and accept that she will (status wise) be nothing more than a "3-way cum receptacle". That way, if she can maintain that state of mind and mental status, she will have a greater appreciation for the times when she is not treated as such. But for me, I can't see the concept of "3-way cum receptacle" being the PRIMARY tone of the relationship while at the same time there is "honor, accountability, responsibility and duty" and being "loved and cared for" by the same person who sees my as that receptacle. I think I don't have problem understanding and accepting the idea of a Master loving and caring for his masochist slave because physical pain for the slave isn't the primary tone of the relationship on a daily basis. Sure, the slave may be given some type of physical pain every day, but is it the main way the Master sees his slave....just as something to beat, pinch, stab or cut? How does a Master love and care for something he sees as no more than a 3-way cum receptacle?

shiftyw -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 9:42:47 AM)
To some, perhaps being a cum receptacle is feeling cared for.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 9:50:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 I've heard this same general concept from a multitude of Dominants and I just don't get it. I guess I have too much of a black & white concept of good & bad, being nice or mean, love & hate, etc. To me, love & hate and nice & mean are such polar opposites that I see that there are very distinct ways to demonstrate each of these emotions and it would be very difficult for anyone to confuse one for the other. Yes...there are "pain sluts" and to someone who doesn't like pain, the idea of receiving ANY type of pain goes against their accepted definition of love. Even though for the pain slut it IS love. I can understand the physical concept of these things....even if that's not the way I am. I know that there are masochists out there who actually ENJOY physical pain, and that's great for them and I don't question that. What I don't understand are some of the more mental/emotional things. For instance, someone I was talking to recently has the following on his profile: "I practice the principle of HARD: honor, accountability, responsibility and duty." "I seek a female that chooses to be a lesser vessel; to be loved, cared for and led by a man. I believe that men should function as the Head of Household (HOH) and that women are to be taken in hand and led as such." Yet in conversation with him he also told me that the slave he takes needs to understand and accept that she will (status wise) be nothing more than a "3-way cum receptacle". That way, if she can maintain that state of mind and mental status, she will have a greater appreciation for the times when she is not treated as such. But for me, I can't see the concept of "3-way cum receptacle" being the PRIMARY tone of the relationship while at the same time there is "honor, accountability, responsibility and duty" and being "loved and cared for" by the same person who sees my as that receptacle. I think I don't have problem understanding and accepting the idea of a Master loving and caring for his masochist slave because physical pain for the slave isn't the primary tone of the relationship on a daily basis. Sure, the slave may be given some type of physical pain every day, but is it the main way the Master sees his slave....just as something to beat, pinch, stab or cut? How does a Master love and care for something he sees as no more than a 3-way cum receptacle? Is any part of this something you are trying to assimilate into your dynamic?

SinFix -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 9:56:54 AM)
To me they are not seeing the person as two different things, they are seeing one person and loving them two separate ways..

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 10:59:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix To me they are not seeing the person as two different things, they are seeing one person and loving them two separate ways.. True....I can see the "two separate ways"....(sort of....like I said about being a masochist, for me "pain" isn't "love"...but I do understand that there are people who see it that way. But the phrasing he used did not give me the impression that he felt love toward a 3-way cum receptacle. In his description he specifically said "she would be NOTHING MORE than a 3-way cum receptacle". (emphasis added). That just doesn't give me the impression that there is any "love" there. I just think it's a little backwards.... I guess the way I see it is that being a pain slut is PART OF the larger whole of being a slave. So too is being a 3-way cum receptacle PART OF the larger whole of being a slave. But the way he talks, he makes it sound like being a slave is an incidental PART OF being the 3-way cum receptacle.

Gauge -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:05:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 How does a Master love and care for something he sees as no more than a 3-way cum receptacle? The simple answer is that he cannot see them both ways. I am sure I am going to get jumped on for that, but the way it seems to me, there is a key element that makes the world of difference for me. If you see someone as "no more than a 3-way cum receptacle" then that is ALL you are going to see. Love and care, in my not so humble opinion, require someone to see the other individual as a person as well, so what they are saying doesn't match up to what love and care require. Perhaps I am playing with semantics, but that is the way I am looking at the question. I think that sometimes folks use these phrases because they sound good, but their actions go beyond what the words say on the surface. It sounds to me that the more appropriate phrase to use would be that you should be ever mindful of your role as a slave. That phrase makes allowances for the individual definition of their dynamic to be included. Again, this is my opinion only. I would never want someone to view themselves as "nothing more than ____" because that is borderline abusive... unless, that is your chosen dynamic, then all is right with the world. However, removing one's self-identification and identity and to make them feel "less than ____" goes against what I believe to be healthy. I'm going to say this again, this is my opinion, none of which should be viewed as my way is right, your way is wrong.

DesFIP -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:12:34 AM)
I can see saying it the other way. That his partner will be loved and cared for except during play when all he wants is a cum receptacle. But presenting it as she's always valueless except for those rare occasions when there will be role play treating her as important makes me raise an eyebrow. Because if the vast majority of the time she is valueless than all his pretty words about honor and love and care is bullshit.

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:14:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant Is any part of this something you are trying to assimilate into your dynamic? No....but any time I come across something that I have not encountered or thought about before, and it triggers any kind of emotional response in me, I DO think a little bit of "What if...?" can be quite beneficial. I think doing that helps me to learn more about myself. This conversation obviously triggered some kind of response from me. But the funny thing is, while right now that response from me may seem overtly negative, there have been many, many times where I started out feeling quite negative about a particular issue, but after doing exactly this, I changed my mind completely.

GoddessManko -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:20:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix To me they are not seeing the person as two different things, they are seeing one person and loving them two separate ways.. Totally spot on. Or many different ways depending on the day, time and disposition. You can practice humiliation, degradation and different forms of sadism and still care for someone and it's BECAUSE you do you share that part of yourself with them. I like what he had to say as a Dom but I think making that level of kinky intent known that early can easily be misconstrued. I think the fact he has a personal honor code is a good sign.

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I can see saying it the other way. That his partner will be loved and cared for except during play when all he wants is a cum receptacle. But presenting it as she's always valueless except for those rare occasions when there will be role play treating her as important makes me raise an eyebrow. Because if the vast majority of the time she is valueless than all his pretty words about honor and love and care is bullshit. Small piece of clarification.....I don't think in his case treating her as important is necessarily "role play". And I don't think (from what I know of another slave) that the times when he does treat them better than a receptacle, are few and far between. But for some reason he wants her to maintain that level of headspace where she thinks of herself as something very low. But I could be wrong....won't be the first time or the last.

orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 1:22:48 PM)
I can see pain, sexual objectification and female subjugation as part of a loving, respectful, honourable relationship if those kinks are part of the submissive's fetishes and they are carried out in a safe, sane and consensual way. If they are not her kinks, and if the submissive cannot grow to accept them, they are likely to be seen as unwanted, unpleasant, degrading and demoralising. It's a question of compatibility. There is also the issue that some Doms are full of shit. So, yanno, pick whichever explanation seems most appropriate lol.

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 1:34:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12 I can see pain, sexual objectification and female subjugation as part of a loving, respectful, honourable relationship if those kinks are part of the submissive's fetishes and they are carried out in a safe, sane and consensual way. If they are not her kinks, and if the submissive cannot grow to accept them, they are likely to be seen as unwanted, unpleasant, degrading and demoralising. It's a question of compatibility. There is also the issue that some Doms are full of shit. So, yanno, pick whichever explanation seems most appropriate lol. I can see those things as part of loving, respectful, honorable relationship too. But I don't know if I can see them as the ONLY part or even PRIMARY part.

HisDarlingDoll -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 7:01:14 PM)
this resonates with me, highly. i think someone above made a great point---if being a 3 way cum receptacle is what the submissive/slave needs/desires, then absolutely, it's showing love in 2 separate ways. for instance, i crave being used. straight up, used. 3 way cum receptacle would certainly be quite an accurate description of my cravings--and i'm a pain slut. so, yes, Master shows me love when i'm used in those ways. i also crave safety, protection and sweet, sweet affection...and that is very challenging for me to admit, i might add, and He knows it. i think this is when it's most beneficial for a Master to TRULY be in tuned with His slave, to truly know her inside and out, to give her what treatment she NEEDS at any given time, even if it's not what she "wants." at that time. so my answer is yes, it is possible, and probably quite desired for said slave to be both a useless cum slut, as well as a respected and well-loved slave.

GoddessManko -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 7:53:36 PM)
HisDarlingDoll I have been reading a lot of your responses and you are just rocking the forum! Welcome and enjoy the boards! [sm=welcomewave.gif]

HisDarlingDoll -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 8:09:54 PM)
ahhhhh, thank you so very much, GoddessManko!! :) i really appreciate your kind words!! quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko HisDarlingDoll I have been reading a lot of your responses and you are just rocking the forum! Welcome and enjoy the boards! [sm=welcomewave.gif]

orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (2/28/2015 11:43:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smileforme50 quote: ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12 I can see pain, sexual objectification and female subjugation as part of a loving, respectful, honourable relationship if those kinks are part of the submissive's fetishes and they are carried out in a safe, sane and consensual way. If they are not her kinks, and if the submissive cannot grow to accept them, they are likely to be seen as unwanted, unpleasant, degrading and demoralising. It's a question of compatibility. There is also the issue that some Doms are full of shit. So, yanno, pick whichever explanation seems most appropriate lol. I can see those things as part of loving, respectful, honorable relationship too. But I don't know if I can see them as the ONLY part or even PRIMARY part. I'm not sure I could see my relationship WITHOUT them, I'm not sure I would want to be in a relationship or a power exchange without them, in fact I'm fairly certain I couldn't be happy without them. I guess that's why they're recognised fetishes, because some people can't achieve satisfaction without them. It's all just the united colours of BDSM :-)

DerangedUnit -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (3/1/2015 2:48:15 AM)
That actually intrigued me too so a couple years ago I tried it out. Though I have a rule of treating people exactly like they treat me, in the end he ended up utterly confused and who could blame him. I've heard all the lines "you can love me but but I can't love you" is a good example.... in theory they see the concept of getting unconditional love from something they hate as valid. I think they actually believe to a point that they can be assholes and be treated with respect to in return(does that ever work? Who knows...only possibly from girls who have been screwed over enough that they no longer believe love exists and that hate is more honest) problem is, as he quickly figured out his hate wasn't honest. He expected me to love him... I treated him like he treated me (carefully still following contracted rules) it changed from him sitting on the couch and ignoring me to "you know if you want cuddles you just have to ask" I'd scoff and say "no thanks" and he would pulse his lips and give that 'trying trying make a decision' look. I acted indifferent to punishment or affection, and he started behaving more and more irrationally. That "truth,honor, respect" mantra began to slip and every time he lied and I just smiled at him with my 'you're really trying that with me' grin, every time he wined, went to bed instead of getting work done, threw a temper tantrum.... it got to the point where all he would do when he came home would be avoid looking at me and make an excuse to lie down... I figured I'd done enough damage at that point but what did I learn? The guys who say they just want hardened painsluts really just want love too, they just don't think they are deserving of it so they hide behind a facade of Douchery to try to look strong. Their egos depend on how long as they can think they are winning. It's about appearances. Men like that don't care what you are as long as you let them pretend they are in charge, as long as you don't burst that bubble. They don't want real respect or real love they want an image of it that fits with their preconceived vision.

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (3/1/2015 8:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisDarlingDoll this resonates with me, highly. i think someone above made a great point---if being a 3 way cum receptacle is what the submissive/slave needs/desires, then absolutely, it's showing love in 2 separate ways. for instance, i crave being used. straight up, used. 3 way cum receptacle would certainly be quite an accurate description of my cravings--and i'm a pain slut. so, yes, Master shows me love when i'm used in those ways. i also crave safety, protection and sweet, sweet affection...and that is very challenging for me to admit, i might add, and He knows it. i think this is when it's most beneficial for a Master to TRULY be in tuned with His slave, to truly know her inside and out, to give her what treatment she NEEDS at any given time, even if it's not what she "wants." at that time. so my answer is yes, it is possible, and probably quite desired for said slave to be both a useless cum slut, as well as a respected and well-loved slave. I agree with you.....but that is not what I said in my original post. What he said to me was "she will (status wise) be nothing more than a "3-way cum receptacle". In the conversation I had with him, he said nothing about being a "respected and well-loved slave."

smileforme50 -> RE: Seeing and Treating Someone Two Different Ways (3/1/2015 8:59:25 AM)
@Deranged Unit That was very interesting....

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