Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (Full Version)

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KenDckey -> Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 9:47:34 AM)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/02/new-mexico-common-core_n_6786894.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Apparently students in NM are revolting against common core testing. They want an education, not so much testing. They feel the testing takes away from their education more than it should.

I personally am not a fan of common core although I do agree that more emphasis should be placed on problem solving.




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 10:31:09 AM)

I don't understand the resistance to common core. How can taking a test to measure learning be anything but good? How can taking this test take away from learning? How can giving a way to measure the competence of teachers be bad. If teachers concentrate on students passing common core than they will be giving a well rounded education.

Butch




Tkman117 -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 11:46:40 AM)

The issue with common core and test taking is two fold: 1) do you normally take tests out in the real world where you don't have access to other resources to assist in completing your tasks? No. They're not representative of what we as students will face in real life, and do not provide us with valuable skills aside from being able to take tests.
2) It's all about memory, not problem solving. Sure you could get problem solving questions, but when it comes to tests it depends on your memory to be able to problem solve. In a world as information filled as our own, we don't always need to remember complex equations or interconnections between biological or non biological aspects of our world. Those resources are available to us, either in reform of digital media or print media.

Test taking isn't a measure of how much you've learned, it's a measure of how good your memory is, so if you have a bad memory but great problem solving skills, you're already at a disadvantage. Learning and applying what is learned should reflect the real world, not some simplified version of it where memorization is key.




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 12:30:37 PM)

Tkman

Out in the real world you are tested every day... but that is not the point... While in school... being educated...there needs to be a way to measure a students progress...and testing is THE only valid sensible way. To me it makes sense to coordinate education from city to city and state to state. That way if children move between districts their education can continue with a smooth progression of learning.

Butch




Tkman117 -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 12:39:32 PM)

So tell me when was the last time you took an exam of 150 questions where you needed a 50% average to keep your job or get over 80% to get a raise?

Just because you can't concievably think of an alternative does not mean there isn't one. Do you think those engineers threw their hands up in the air and said "well, Apollo 13 is fucked." Humans are intelligent creatures, and by limiting your opinion to "well it's the only concievable solution" speaks volumes about yorself and your political ideology.




KenDckey -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 12:53:12 PM)

TK I had to test in the Army but it was pass fail Not a percentage. You fail and you could die (career wise) and if in combat for real.

I did have to take a test when I started working for a municipality. But it wasn't over my job but how government worked and its internal interactions.

I agree that memorization are not necessarily a good quality for a test. When I was in HS I got average and below average test scores on my weekly testing in some subjects and within the top 3 on semester testing. Why, I took longer to learn certain subjects, but once I figured them out (a process that wasn't really testable) I did extremely well. All but language skills. I just couldn't seem to learn Spanish and I think the teacher passed me because of effort, not knowledge. Now I speak english, german, italian and 2 african dialects (although since I haven't had much practice in the last 30 years I am a tad bit rusty)




Tkman117 -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 1:24:47 PM)

Now all that makes absolute sense. Yes of course there are scenarios in life where you are tested like you are in school, but for the majority of people they're few and far between. Being a student I've talked with others about this topic often and thought it would be a good idea to make tests harder with more difficult problem solving based tests, but give student access to a textbook and/or group of other students to better simulate having those kind of resources at your disposal.

Memorization is still important mind you, because a person who can't remember the difference between a proton and an electron wouldnt make much of a chemist. But when you get to the point in education where you're beyond the basics, memorization shouldn't hold as much weight as problem solving or other skills.




joether -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 2:23:32 PM)

I think some of you are not stopping and thinking about Common Core's purpose, and pushing to a final 'judgement' of what its suppose to accomplish. Or insert a belief of how its suppose to accomplish things. Common Core can be many things but its not a good substitute for adults helping students succeed nor making them think independently.

The schools in my area do very well on Common Core related concepts. But then, each of the towns pushes a high degree of funding in to the school systems. Its not about 'throwing heaps of money away' either that makes successes. Its investing intelligently and wisely. Hiring educators that are not just intelligent and studied in their field, but whom have the behavior and demeanor to attract students to succeed. Investing in good infrastructure helps. Most make the mistake of just improving the class room itself; but improving if not creating other structures is equally important (more on that later). Likewise, parents will (if they want their kid to succeed) will get involved with the process; to bridge the gap of formal schooling with 'the rest of life'. Education does not take place in a vaccuum, its contiunous.

Most people believe the learning of 'thinking for ones self' resides within the class room. And those would be wrong. The class room is were one learns the skills, to think independently, but is not the location to develop them for future use. Investing in band rooms, theater, athletics, and multitudes of after school activities is were to spend some of that budget. Students begin developing 'tactical' skills in team athletic games such as football, soccer, and field hockey. Likewise, they develop interpersonal skills in theater for example; allowing them to test behaviors without being scutinize in the hallways. The various language clubs (french, russian, spanish, and even Vulcan), art clubs (from music to paintings), and conceptual views (chess club, D&D club, LARPing, etc). Finally, the school I was at had a limited 'outdoors club'. It exposed those students whom were not in the Boy Scouts to stuff like wilderness survival, backpacking, camping, and even rock climbing.

The students learn the skills in the class room, but then test how to make use of these skills outside in activities. They figure out what works and what doesn't. But it doesn't work without parent support and encouragement, and a school system that is headed in the right direction. Common Core is mean to give a standardized amount of information to educators, parents, and town/city government on the effectiveness all these people are having on children. People want to scapegoat Common Core because they dont have any decent excuses for why they are fucking up.

In the real world, TKman117 ask a question of sorts: "So tell me when was the last time you took an exam of 150 questions where you needed a 50% average to keep your job or get over 80% to get a raise?"

I do know for certainty that if you fail to understand warfare 101 by as much as 50%, its not just you getting yourself killed, it could also mean a few members of your squad. Failing half the time in most professions could mean anything from jail time to being fired. Likewise, those that not just work hard, but work smart, often get raises. As a business owner, if I have two employees whom work hard, they'll get a raise. But if one of them does more to bring in more business, higher net profit, and develop the company in better ways; they'll get a better bonus. That has been a common business practice for decades!

So in ending, the focus of getting students to think for themselves, does not rest with the classroom itself, but in areas outside the classroom. Giving them moments to test ideas on the spur of the moment and weigh the outcome as good or bad, gives them experience when the next issues comes up. When you do that, Common Core is not that big of a monster to to handle.




KenDckey -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 2:30:41 PM)

I once took a class, 9 weeks long 40 hr weeks, when I was in the Army. When we walked in we were given a standard office type desk and chair. The desk was covered with one row of book 2 feet high. The object of the class was to expose us to a whole bunch of things in Logistics. Every aspect. Our tests were open book and took about 2 hours each Friday. When we arrived we were told we would need a 9 digit calculator, so we all got them. Believe me, we used every bit of one. We didn't really learn anything specific, but we did learn how to research (problem solving). How many trucks would it take to move 200K tons of dry cargo 200 miles over highways and 50 miles across country. And what types of trucks would be required. or How much and what type of ammunition would be required for a Corps of 5 divisions with their support units in 5 days of heavy combat. Simple stuff. Grab calculator, crack book and have fun. LOL




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 3:41:59 PM)

You must not have to take written tests for promotion... believe me many do.




GoddessManko -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 4:03:52 PM)

I'm glad students are trying to tell teachers and administrators what works for them. Kids are being mislabeled for learning through alternative means and it's not right or fair. We expect a 21st century technology learner to use 18th century learning practices and a strict inflexible curriculum and this makes sense why? Personally the reason I topped my class until I was 12 is because homework wasn't graded. I never did it, nor took notes. I don't see the point of all the extra work when it's obvious someone knows the material if they're getting 100% on every test.
I hope students become more vocal about their education needs and more people eventually start to take them more seriously and focus on understanding the students rather than fulfilling a curriculum that doesn't cater to all of them.Why not offer OPTIONS? Testing or homework or both? At least then there is incentive to learn one way or another.
Or make learning fun by applying it to real world occurrences they might enjoy. Example; fractions, bring a pie (desserts) to class and demonstrate how something can be 1/6th of a whole.




Aylee -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 4:49:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't understand the resistance to common core. How can taking a test to measure learning be anything but good? How can taking this test take away from learning? How can giving a way to measure the competence of teachers be bad. If teachers concentrate on students passing common core than they will be giving a well rounded education.

Butch



From 3rd grade on we had those stupid scantron tests. Kf they wanted to do useful testing it would be a skills and knowledge test to advance grade-wise. But they are not. They are two to three days of annoying fill-in-the-bubble tests that do not have any impact on the student other than annoyance.




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 4:55:17 PM)

quote:

I hope students become more vocal about their education needs and more people eventually start to take them more seriously and focus on understanding the students rather than fulfilling a curriculum that doesn't cater to all of them


Because they are kids and do not know shit...lol... Lets have adults determine what are kids need and learn.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 5:18:49 PM)

Not in my school district... testing determines who needs extra help... who is excelling... it is also measurement of a teachers competence... What is wrong with this?

Butch




GoddessManko -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 5:41:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I hope students become more vocal about their education needs and more people eventually start to take them more seriously and focus on understanding the students rather than fulfilling a curriculum that doesn't cater to all of them


Because they are kids and do not know shit...lol... Lets have adults determine what are kids need and learn.

Butch


LOL, Seriously? I was correcting my teachers.




kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 5:56:06 PM)

I was trying to look up their dresses...during spelling.

Butch




GoddessManko -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 5:59:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't understand the resistance to common core. How can taking a test to measure learning be anything but good? How can taking this test take away from learning? How can giving a way to measure the competence of teachers be bad. If teachers concentrate on students passing common core than they will be giving a well rounded education.

Butch



From 3rd grade on we had those stupid scantron tests. Kf they wanted to do useful testing it would be a skills and knowledge test to advance grade-wise. But they are not. They are two to three days of annoying fill-in-the-bubble tests that do not have any impact on the student other than annoyance.


TOTALLY agreed.




Marini -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 6:06:41 PM)

I just checked google, and there are MILLIONs of websites, links and articles on-line about why many/if not most, administrators, teachers, parents, students, and school advocates are against the common core.

There are MILLIONS of links, those that are interested need only read a few.
Here are a few good links, out of the millions.
Why so many parents hate the common core

Who is fighting the common core

I read an article over the weekend about why the teacher of the year from Ohio, was leaving teaching, and a lot of it had to do with the common core.

Top Teacher leaving teaching because she does not want to drill em and kill em.

Here is a quote from the above article from the award winning teacher leaving teaching:

Ms. Starr states " Now, she said, she can no longer remain in system because it demands that teachers spend too much time collecting data, getting students ready for tests, and doing other tasks that are not related to what she considers a quality education. She said, to audible gasps from the audience: “I can’t do it anymore, not in this ‘drill ‘em and kill ‘em’ atmosphere.” She also said, “I don’t think anyone understands that in this environment, if your child cannot quickly grasp material, study like a robot and pass all of these tests, they will not survive.”

I am glad many states are fighting against Common Core, and parents are leading the charge.





kdsub -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 6:17:28 PM)

Just curious... do you really know what Common Core is? I do not mean to be disrespectful...just asking because many people just do not know what it is.

Doing research will show common core is just common sense. What it is not is a politically initiated standard and many people confuse this fact.

Butch





Marini -> RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing (3/3/2015 6:18:44 PM)

I know what the Common Core is.

Did you read anything I posted or any of the millions of articles online?




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